Social Justice And The Dark Side Of Activism with Simone Vincenzi

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00:47

So tell me about the Occupy Wall Street movement.

00:52

So the Occupy Wall Street movement, which started in the US, and then in Wall Street, started because there were a lot of people really upset with how capitalism works and how capitalism is run on the principles of capitalism, and in particular how money is distributed. There. I was, starting from there, that that movement expanded all over the world and arrived in London. So that’s how I got involved in Occupy London Stock Exchange, which is the equivalent of the stock exchange. It doesn’t sound as though no one has a better ring to it. Yeah, it also sounds better, like a London stock exchange than that actual side note, it was called this way because that’s where originally trades happened. So they were exchanging the stock, whether it was changing goods and animals, and that’s where it all started, and then back when they were in what was twice called the London Stock Exchange. So then we started with that movement and protested they’re living eight months. Camping out there, where you live eight months in a tent in a tent. Yeah, I was. I basically left what I had. And because I believed so much that a change in society needed to happen. What makes a man abandon his life as he knows it, and commit so much to cause because we’re talking almost a cult -like level of belief, right? And we always look at the people involved in cults. Like the famous wacko thing. And we’re like, these people are weird, right? But you actually participated in it. So we are entrepreneurial, called we do crazy stuff, because we are what is the same, the same thing is the same thing that made you be an entrepreneur is the same thing that makes you have decisions. If there is something inside yourself that you believe to be true. And you are a person that wants to do something about it. I think that inside me, there has always been a fire of making a change, doing something meaningful with my life and not settling. So I’ve always loved actually getting involved in the action since I was a kid, whether it was sports, whether it was in my clubs. So this was a way for me to get involved behind something that I believed in, because I see a lot of people in the world that are struggling. And that was my way to say, let me express my voice. And of course, it’s easier when one voice is united with multiple voices. I mean, we were at the beginning, we were about like 600 people leaving camping out there. Then of course, after the first week, we went down to about 100. And after that we remained like 70 or 80. But still, you know, there was that feeling of we are here to make something happen. We are here to make a change. However, I found that environment very toxic. And so that’s why I left, which is a lot of people that have not been inside the activist world. They fantasize about it. But actually it’s a very dark, very dark world. It’s not fun. It’s a dark, dark world. What do you mean? Like there’s assassinations going on? They’re not bad, but you are. Imagine that everything you do is to destroy something. Okay, lots of negativity. Everything’s a conspiracy. There you go. So you can go down a downward spiral very quickly, because all of this is wrong. This is wrong. This is wrong. This is wrong. We need to destroy it. We need to destroy there’s very little space for let’s work on the solution. What are we doing about the solution? And that’s why I decided to separate myself from the movement and moved into the opposite side actually, being an entrepreneur which is within a capitalistic society that before I was refusing. No, I think it makes perfect sense because there’s this great book called The True Believer.

05:01

I don’t recall who the author is, we’ll include it in the show notes. So this book, by Eric Hoffer, the author, is Eric Hoffer. He talks about different movements, he talks about Nazism, Bolsheviks, and communism and all kinds of stuff, Chinese movements, etc. And he actually breaks down what it takes to rally people up to a cause versus what you need to do. Once you’ve got everyone sort of behind you. And you need to further develop that movement. And what you’re describing is, you know, that enemy, we need a common enemy. That’s the early stages of marketing your idea, you need a common enemy to latch on to and to market against. But then at some point, you have to transition like you said to a solution, you have to bridge the gap into what the future should look like, then how are we making that future happen? Right, yeah. And I think that they are two very different roles. If they are, these are not the same people. What I’ve realized in that process, because I’m still involved in making change and making a difference, is that I want to make this world a better place, whether it’s on the environmental side, or on the personal side. And what I found is that we, both parts are necessary for something to change, you have

06:34

a part of people that are there to destroy the establishment to destroy what is not working. And that’s all they’re there to do. They’re there to destroy, they’re there to point out what’s wrong. And they are there to raise awareness, they are there to protest, they are there to wake people up. And then you have the other side of people that are there to work on the solution. So they get excited about working with solutions, they get excited by bringing other people together by coming up with creative ideas. So you can see the two energies are very different. You have an energy of destruction and energy of Creation. And they really can’t coexist together. But to change something, you need both, think about any big change that we’ve made in society, there was a part that was there destroying the system. And it was a part of us working within the system to change. And I think at that point, I was 2625 26. And I found that my place was not in the destruction, but it was in the creation, it was more aligned with who I am as a person. Right. And that’s how I found my place. That’s really interesting. And I bet it took you through a journey to discover something like that.

07:50

Why have you been involved in a movement like that where you protest against capitalism? Or what are your beliefs about capitalism? Now? Do you? Do you think it works? Is there a better way?

08:04

I’m gonna be in the middle. Because so I was raised. I think I’ve always been more left wing and right wing.

08:13

And this carries also in the way around business.

08:18

I believe that we need to have a system where wealth is distributed better, and more equally.

08:28

And I’m not talking about the millionaires. This is not like millionaires are peanuts compared to the amount of money that there is in certain institutions and so on, where literally, they can make a substantial impact in countries or wait on people, instead of using them as a form of control. Because he’s talking about something like an international money fund, the IMF, that’s back and I’m gonna talk about that. That’s gonna talk about or,

08:57

But it’s not about the institution. The IMF, in itself is about what the belief is and what’s the context, the social political construct in which we live in. Right. And the social political construct at the moment is still like Darwinism, you know, the survival of the fittest, you know, you can make it on your own great.

09:16

And you can do it. And in fact, I think that this is the positive of the capitalistic society. If you didn’t have that fire up your ass. Let’s put it this way. If I didn’t have that, I would not have built what I built. I came from very little, I was in a good position. I mean, I always had a roof over my head. I’m not talking about extreme poverty. But my mom wasn’t wealthy. So having debt gave me the fire to say, I can No, no, I can build more. And that’s positive capitalism, you know, gives you the incentive to be better. It gives you an incentive to create it gives you the incentive to add value. But then you have the other part, which is what about the people that really can’t? Or what about the people that are not exposed to certain things?

10:00

Formation. Just because I was born in Italy, I’m luckier than someone that was born in a rural town in Africa.

10:08

Different I it’s just like it is what it is or in, in Islam in India. Like it just wherever I was born, it gives me a head start. And that’s where I think that the system needs to do a better or to support those kinds of those kinds of situations even don’t need to go into other countries, even in our own country go into East London,

10:33

Disease, some style that, you know, that they can be held. So that’s yeah, I understand what you mean. Use the word, they use the term extreme poverty. You know, it’s such a relative term, too. I was chatting with someone yesterday, it wasn’t being interviewed for their podcast, and they grew up in tech in Texas. And they asked me to tell my story. So I was born in 88, just before the wall came down in Berlin, and the Soviet Union opened up. So the iron curtain went up, all of a sudden, we’re allowed to have Western products. You know, Levi’s, blue jeans are coming in, people are listening, you know, two cassette tapes, and then watching videos on VCRs. You know, back then, you were showing status by having my smoking Lucky Strike or the Marlboro. Camera, they can pronounce this. The cowboy, the cowboy, yeah, the cowboy cigarettes, or camel, my dad used to love to smoke that. But we were still pretty poor. If you think about it, I did have a roof over my head. I never had to, to worry about that. And my wife, however, you know, she grew up, she was moving a lot. And she had to shoplift to, you know, to eat and things like that. So she was really, really poor. But she grew up in a single parent household in Siberia. So that was a little bit tougher. My dad, you know, he was always resourceful, he always kind of figured things out, you know, he had connections, and he always knew how to make friends with the right people. But eventually, that was also the downfall because he borrowed money from a gangster to invest in a venture, and then the venture failed. So we basically sold our car, our apartment, and we had $1,000 left to our name. And that’s why we moved to Israel, really, because we didn’t really see a future in Ukraine. Now, I understand. Now looking back on the decision, how good of a decision that was. Because, you know, as a result, I’m not on the frontlines in Ukraine, you know, dispatching drones into Russian tanks.

12:43

I’m living a very different life, I get to talk about it from, you know, 15,000 miles away, and I prefer it that way. But I still have friends and family back there. And it’s a terrible situation. And, you know, you mentioned the, the global banking system that’s largely supporting the this whole conflict, you know, because they give money to countries like Ukraine, and then they tell them, Look, we give you money, if you want our money, you’ll have to do like, you know, what we tell you to do, and we want you broken and that’s the thing, that’s where we’re, this is used as a form of control and power. That’s the broken part that I think that can be improved instead of being

13:29

Money, as we know is, like, you know, is created from numbers right now. It’s not even, it’s not even real, like what it is, its number is a digit. So you can and of course, there is a system that regulates this number, and there is a system that regulates this digits, but at the same time as the system designed to control. And what happened is that over the years, and before I used to talk a lot about this, this was all I used to learn and talk about. And then I remember someone making me notice that whatever, wherever I put my attention, what I focus on expands. So focus on the problem, that problem expands. So since probably like 25 years old, then I stopped, I stopped looking at all the conspiracy Ward and so on, I know there is more that we can see. But what can I do about it? Like, can I do something about it? No, not really. I can be aware it’s gonna make my life more miserable. But knowing that concept that if I actually focus on something, it amplifies, and I don’t want to give it more. I don’t want to get more attention. Yes. Okay. But I’m here to work on solutions. I’m here to support kids. We do a lot of projects with disadvantaged kids in our local area. I play basketball, we get them on the basketball court. I support our buck’s goodwill team a lot so they can have a place where they can do their homework in the afternoon and they can play ball. And that’s what I found to do to be able to give back and other charity projects or the work that

15:00

I do my business. But it’s all the idea that the more we talk about the problem, the more the problem expands, the more we work on the solutions, the less problems we have. It’s not about closing our eyes. I’m not saying that. But once you’re aware.

15:16

And my reaction is to do something about it. And, going back to what we were talking about before, you know, also it is not such a black and white situation, it’s okay, you have more money, okay, let’s give it to people that need and that’s the easy part. But then what happens?

15:38

Then, what happens there is that we know that money doesn’t solve problems, money can amplify problems as well, and money is an amplifier. So you give money in the wrong places? And then it just amplifies and makes the problem bigger. So it’s not, he’s not even just black and white? And also, who am I to say, I’m rich, you’re poor, like someone who’s living in a different situation delivers a different life. And we have already seen what imposing a Western type of culture does to other countries. So

16:13

That’s also why don’t think dissolution has happened, because it’s such a complex, there’s so many levels, and so many layers of complexity with different backgrounds, races, beliefs,

16:24

political situations, and so on that, you know, just drawing a bit of wealth somewhere, I don’t think is the solution either. And I don’t know what the solution would be, to be honest.

16:34

Yeah, I agree that giving more money to people is really not a solution. Because if they’re not smart about money,

16:40

the money just flows back into the pockets of people who are so if you give a lot of money to a poor person, or a poor minded person, that money ends up going to the people, so big screen TVs, and alcohol and whatever.

16:55

There’s a reason why many poor people remain poor, you know, you can start poor. I started poorly. But you can climb up at least to a middle class level. Many people choose not to, you know, whether because they believe the system is rigged, or whether for any other reason, but most of the time, giving money is really not a solution. Which is why I just don’t believe in the whole wealth distribution thing, where you take more money from the rich and give it to the poor, because that money flows back into the hands of the rich, because there’s a reason why those rich people are rich in the first place. But let me ask you a different question.

17:33

If you could change one thing about the world?

17:37

What would it be?

17:40

Probably more understanding. That’s our understanding and compassion.

17:45

I think there’s a lot of problems. In particular, a lot of conflicts. I’m talking about conflicts. I’m someone who hates conflicts. I am if I cannot avoid conflicts, and, or I tried, I love to find resolutions.

18:00

And a lot of resolutions, whether it’s in personal relationships, or robot relationships, and so on, happen with understanding, they happen with understanding the differences that we have, as human beings, the different cultural differences that we have. And I think just embracing that. And if we understand everyone on this planet,

18:20

They do their best to understand the differences that we have.

18:25

The word would already be a much better place. Because now instead of trying to, yeah, just instead now instead of trying to impose your point of view, you’re, you’re first listening, and you’re learning from them. And then you see, okay, how can the point of view align, which is a much more empowered place to create

18:44

A long term solution for on a personal level on a global level? That will be the one thing. So you’re saying more compassion, more empathy?

18:54

Compassion, empathy, understanding?

18:56

Okay. How about you? What would yours be?

19:01

You know,

19:02

I would probably,

19:05

I was actually having a conversation about this with my wife last night.

19:09

And I think what I would want to see is a world unified into a single country. What I’m what I’m not liking is how,

19:19

How, how much division there is in between, both within countries but also outside. Like, for example, if the whole world will say something like, Okay, let’s try and fight climate change, and try to, you know, lower pollution and, you know, switch to nuclear or whatever. You’d still have countries that don’t subscribe to the same belief and they continue to pump gasses into the atmosphere. You know, there’s been a lot of talk about

19:47

Back in the times of COVID, when COVID was losing the narrative in the news and they needed something else to talk about something you spoke about. Yeah. So they switched talking about like, nuclear power and I

20:00

And, you know, switching to electric vehicles, even though that’s not really a solution to climate change, China became like the big villain. Because China emits so much pollution every year, that even if we get like a bunch of different countries together to lower their numbers, China will still outperform all these in a negative way. So what I would do, I would, I would want to see us switching from a model of countries, to one country, and maybe mega cities. And I would also have everyone speak the same language. I think it’s a, it’s a, it’s a problem, when we can revert back to our own language barrier. And I’ve seen it many times. So I’ve had two immigrations in my lifetime, one from Ukraine to Israel, another one from Israel to Canada. And I speak Russian, Hebrew, Ukrainian, and English.

20:58

And seeing how different cultures interact based on their languages,

21:05

Is fascinating. And also seeing how within, say, Canada, you’ve got clusters and communities, you got the Russian community, that doesn’t talk to the Ukrainian community, that doesn’t talk to the Jewish community, that you got some people who overlap. But there’s a very distinct barrier, communication barrier in between. So if we all spoke the same language that alone would have a tournament, like pushing us tremendously towards a unified front and abilities just freaking, you know, have a conversation.

21:41

What about No, they the last that it will be in terms of like individual culture, or

21:50

because one of the things that I love about the word is actually how different than adversities, you know, you go to a new country, you speak a new language, and of course, he can go he’s a barrier, and say, situation, but he is the discovery and, and if I find no traveling and seeing different cultures that hear in different languages, seeing different ways of approaching life makes me more complete as a human being makes me better, it makes me understand more.

22:20

How would you deal with that partner?

22:24

I wouldn’t, I think people would still find a way to show their individualism. And besides, when you when you say individualism,

22:34

If we look from a macro perspective on different cultures, you see so many, so like, if a Jewish if a person from Israel, like myself, goes to Canada, and is now a part of a Canadian society, you know, I’ll stand out. I’ll stand out like a fart in an elevator really. And I’ll seem like an individual, I’ll seem unique. But you wouldn’t be back in Israel, I don’t seem that very much unique at all. So I think it’s, it’s more of a everybody will find that group or a group belief that they subscribe to, you know, if we speak the same language, we can still be a member, members of a Harley Davidson Bike Club, we can still support the same football team, we can still, you know, express ourselves in a certain form of art, we can still dress a certain way. But if two people are communicating from different countries, it’s so challenging to establish a connection, like we really have to zoom out so much. And say, well, let’s agree that we’re both human beings who can agree on that. Yes. Let’s agree that we love our families, and we want the best for our families. Can we agree on that? Yeah. So you really have to go all the way back. But if we spoke the same language, I think it would have been a much easier, um, I guess, journey.

23:58

I guess I still have this nostalgia. But as an Italian, I like traditions. And I think, and one of the things that I loved the most is seeing different traditions.

24:14

And it is fascinating, even going back to Italy, you know, if we have strong traditions. Every region has a different tradition. If you think about Italy, until 100 years ago, every region would speak in a different language. My grandma from the south of Italy couldn’t speak with my grandma from the north of Italy. That’s two generations ago. It’s my grandmother’s and the language like the Italian language didn’t exist. They had the regional language and they were completely different from north to south and then he got unified and of course there is power unity. I agree with you. There is power in unity and imagine if we all work together as a word and the language helps us all working together

24:58

Becomes unstoppable. I

25:00

I don’t even see the limit of what we can level up. And at the same time, I can see, you know, going into the South of Italy or going to the North of Italy and then seeing how the different dishes are cooked, or how my grandma’s dialect is and switching dialects from one grammar to the other. There’s something beautiful about that, too. Which I wouldn’t want to lose, which I wouldn’t want to lose. But let’s see. But that’s only because we’re attached to what we know, right? Like, in many ways, I wouldn’t want to lose my Ukrainian heritage or the good parts of the Israeli heritage. But say, my kids are not growing up in Canada, they have no references to those things to them. These things are nice houses, but not necessary for survival and not the way like not the way the world is supposed to work. There’s no idea that they have like, oh, this is how the world is supposed to work. So your knee, we’re just hostages to these ideas, because that’s how we grew up. And we reminisce about the simpler times. And I think that’s just human nature. And that’s fine. Let me ask you, where do I get to where our kids will be completely different, that they will be a different way? Because my kids who grew up in the UK, they will not validate the reference to the Italian heritage or the Caribbean heritage that my wife is like, I would do I’m with you.

26:24

Yeah, speaking of language, I have a question for you.

26:29

Would you consider money to be a language?

26:38

Please expand.

26:40

So what I’m seeing is, if there’s one thing that can unite people,

26:47

In a form of cooperation, if there’s one thing that makes people work together, set aside their differences, and really,

26:56

While putting their egos aside,

27:00

Work towards a common goal, either fighting a common enemy, or achieving a common goal, structuring a solution, maintaining a good thing or building a new thing. Money seems to be it. I mean, I’ve seen money unite people of different races from different countries. It’s making people set aside their personal

27:22

You know, character traits and ego related issues.

27:28

It just, I didn’t see anything else that would make people so excited and likely to work together as a unit, like money does.

27:44

I can make the counter argument. I’ve never seen so many killings, so much division, and so much control and power abuse because of money. I think that about religion.

27:58

Religion was not the code the religion was used to get power over territories. So it’s not

28:08

Religion has never been there, has always been what has been used or like ideologies has not been defined all the final aim for when it was created. Okay, let’s separate the sort of money we’re talking about we’re talking about power yeah

28:26

That’s what I want to go that’s what I want to go because I think that

28:31

I’m not sure I would answer it. What about money? It’s a language. I agree with you. I think money is a language. Money is already a language because

28:40

We talk money we exchange money we leave money

28:44

What I think that unites people though, is non money. I’m fascinated about the Maslow Hierarchy of Needs.

28:53

I don’t remember digging up. Let me just find out so I can find Maslow Hierarchy of Needs, just gotta make sure to be out in order. So you have physiological needs. Then you have safety, belonging and love, esteem, cognitive, aesthetic, self-actualization, and transcendence.

29:17

What brings people together is where they are at that moment. And then money is probably the language or the exchange that happens but you know, if someone has physiological needs or needs survival, they will come together. So if I’m working in a factory, and I’m collaborating with others,

29:37

Sell fisheries for money to survive because I got a roof. I need to put a roof over my head. Money is what I get to fulfill money to survive. If I’m looking for belonging and love, and maybe I already met, my survival needs met. Now I’m looking for belonging and love. Money is the exchange that we will have to experience belonging and love for so

30:00

To the status that we are going to esteem, and so on. So, I think, yes, money is the language. But what gets people together is not money, but is our inner needs fulfilled by money? If it makes sense, how would it be different if money didn’t exist? And would you still show up in the morning on Monday morning to the factory? I probably will not. And money didn’t always exist. There was a time where money didn’t exist. And evolution happened. Progress happened.

30:40

So what made us come together? What made it happen was that no money was our inner need, our physiological and psychological needs, we’re still human beings, we are animals at the end of the day, and we have different things that we look for. And that’s what gets people together. What I’m not sure, though, is, if we get if we will have the so much progress in the sense of

31:12

Some of the inventions that have been made in terms of progress as a human society have been made, because there was a financial gain from it, or we see an opportunity. So we go there, and then it grows, and it actually makes humanity better or worse, one way or the other, or neutral.

31:30

And I’m leaving, I’m thinking even about the example that I have in Italy, in Italy, they introduced something called the

31:40

Like a is a salary that you get, as long as you are a citizen.

31:45

It’s called ready to reach that in answer. So you get paid for being a citizen. What happens is that if you’re a moving in,

31:55

You isn’t that much, but it’s enough to survive as an end, and much, but it’s enough to survive is like 800 a month, 700 800 a month, which if you live with your parents,

32:08

You’re good like you have no rent to pay, you have no, I remember finding my first job at 14 because I wanted some money for myself, some pocket money.

32:20

And I think that the need of proving ourselves or the need for independence, and we the way we experience independence is through money, because then we can pay for our own stuff that will get us to do something that probably will not do,

32:37

Then it happens because of the lack of it.

32:40

And so I think the big part of the reason why I’m who I am, and what got me my success, because I experienced earning money at a very young age, 1414 years old, I was already working 15, I was working almost full time, I was going to work in restaurants every evening and every weekend and going to school, going to school,

33:02

Kind of during the day. But now you have a generation of Italian young people that don’t experience any summer jobs. They don’t experience any sense of independence, because now they have this income that is just coming in, just because they are Italian citizens. And they are not incentivized to find a new job because now, like if you’re starting out, you’re not going to earn more than 700 in a month. So now what do I do? I need to get paid more, just the same amount or less, to actually do some work or other stay home and play my video games. I get paid the same amount of money. So I don’t really think that the solution is

33:42

Because we get motivated by the sense of independence, that money represents Do you think because of the rise of the ai in the near future, more countries will move to a structure like that where they will just pay you a citizen salary be just because technology handles most things and for you to sort of just exist

34:11

I think so.

34:13

I mean, all you get or unless every person on the planet is going to work as a developer or as a coach when you arrive at a point where everything is automated and so only people that understand and have access to technology will be able to operate in that word.

34:40

So in my

34:42

I don’t know where they were. I’m sure there will be other things that will be created we don’t know yet and these will become the jobs of tomorrow.

34:51

There will be a point where people will just learn probably how to work only using AI and they will not even know what it’s like to work without AI

35:00

I don’t know what it’s like to work without the Internet. I experienced the internet when I was 10 years old, 12 years old.

35:08

My parents know, and it was a very different world, they were very different jobs.

35:13

And also, just because, you know, if you don’t need to know the past that we’ll be able to operate in the future. Now he, you can plug into the future and then be able to operate in what the future will look like. So he’s a bit of a wild west there. How about you? Do you think that’s what’s gonna happen? I think for most people, that’s where that’s where we’re headed, where we ‘re gonna give us coupons or something. And just like you said, why would I work and get just as much or a little bit more, if I can just do nothing. And, you know, have my needs taken care of, yeah, I’ll settle for less. But then I don’t need to try very hard, I think most people will be happy to subscribe to that idea. In a world that’s really fast based, where technology is outpacing most human capabilities. And unless you’re a creative worker, something that AI can do, but there’s still I think there’s still going to be quite a bit of requirement of that from humans, creative thinking, creative working, creative solution,

36:21

Problem solving, and solution creation.

36:23

I think you can’t have, you know, 10 billion people do that you can’t have 10 billion holders, or 10 billion, you know, AI prompters you’re going to, at some point, have to figure out a way to create food out of thin air, create housing, by, you know, transforming gasses into concrete or something. So you can build like a skyscraper. And, you know, these, these solutions will have to be made, unless Elon gets there first, and we will move to Mars, I think you know, then then you kind of have to start working and building houses and on Mars, and that will be aI building houses on Mars, they will not. Right, so I still like yeah, it’s still, I think it is very exciting and scary. At the same time. And I say exciting for me, because I can talk from a privileged position, I can make the most of the situation, scary for people that will not be able to make the most of this situation. And we can’t, as a human being, I don’t think we can forget about them for the sake of progress. Because, of course, we can all focus on the sake of progress and evolution. And this is going to be the next day or and we can all get there. And Tolkien from a privileged position. Yes. But what if you never opened a laptop in your life?

37:48

And there are tons of people in the world that have never opened a laptop in their life? What if you didn’t have a smartphone?

37:55

Tons of people like that.

37:57

You’re already at a disadvantage, completely likely you are going to be redundant as a human being at some point no as a human being, but your role in society is defined by what you do, and your job is going to disappear. So there is definitely going to be a big shift.

38:15

I’m curious how he was, you know, when there was the first industrial revolution,

38:22

Which is probably the closest thing where we went from everything, man, the men were doing everything to machines started doing the first things, then the first industrial revolution. And

38:34

Now we went through what we’re going through days as a species as a human species, and we just don’t know. Yeah, I think the difference between going through the industrial revolution to this is that the LEAP we’re making now is much larger than the LEAP we’ve made with the industrial revolution, I think because of the nature of AI and how it can train itself, the pace with which is going to develop, like the Industrial Revolution, extended over a period of how, you know, 80 years, 50 years, you know, like start to building factories and machines and developing methodologies and computers and everything, then we went from having computers to, like in a size of this room, to pushing it down to just the TV size box. And now we’re at a point where a computer fits into a signed little chip. And we can already fit more into the chip then used to be able to fit into this kind of room in the 70s. And now this chip is getting capabilities to do things better and faster than most human beings. So there will definitely be new jobs created, in my opinion, but I think as far as the people who can’t participate in that economy, we will have to give them some kind of food, shelter. Just using that technology and you know my

40:00

The hope is that the technology we developed today, and what AI is going to create, will evolve into tools and strategies that allow us to build cheap housing that allow us to create cheap food, cheap water. I don’t know if you can create water, but definitely grow food in a way that’s cheaper, maybe grow it in the lab or grow it out of a mushroom or something. Because otherwise, how do you feed all these people? I mean, we’ve been, we’ve been really

40:29

Making lots of babies. In the last few years, just you know, Israel alone, when I came to Israel, it was 5 million people, when a few years became six, I think now it’s 8 million people like and it’s a country the size of my shoe. Like she no pun intended, because I know Italy is also shaped like a shoe. But like, in terms of actual size, like Israel is so small you cross country and three and a half hours. It’s like if you go east to west, if you go south to, to North, that’s five hours. I think it’s really small. Yeah, but there’s so many people there now. And

41:07

It’s slowly getting crushed under its own weight of taxes, social payments and subsidies that you have to do for people who can’t support themselves. So eventually, we will have to do something, the resources to feed people into house them will have to come from somewhere, then the way the housing costs are rising in every country, not just in Israel, but in every country, I don’t see how people be like, they will have to move into what we used to call a back in the communism days, we used to call come on Alka, which is basically a big apartment, but you’ve got like 12 families living in it, everybody has one kitchen, one bathroom, and every family has a room. But it’s a big apartment, you know, so. And that’s and that’s survival, and all that that’s survival. So

42:00

What I hope is that whatever change is going to happen, that whatever is going to be implemented in different countries, is done with the collaboration of the country that we are going to operate in.

42:17

I’ve been involved quite heavily in the climate action space, recently.

42:24

And if there is one thing that we have learned, like even talking to indigenous people, or talking to people that live in islands that are going to disappear, because they’re going to be submerged in the next 15 years, or 20 years,

42:37

is that a lot of scientist, or a lot of people that work in technology, whether it’s from Europe or from the US or other countries, just come in, say oh, we have the solution, we are going to do this without having any clue of what’s it like to live there, how their relationship with the land that they have there. And so what I hope is that whatever solution is going to be developed, they’re not going to forget to actually involve the people that are directly impacted because that’s often what’s happening. Now we are having this conversation from our glass ceilings and from my apartment. And I can, I can , I believe there.

43:18

So I can bring solutions and the thing that everyone is playing apart, but let’s remember to involve everyone that actually is being affected to be part of the solution. Because they know better, we might have more technology but they know better the reality of living there, what they need, what they’re really looking for, what are the nuances of each place. And that’s what my real hope is whatever the future is going to be that this process is going just going to be part of how we make decision by involving in particular the people that are directly

43:55

affected by any type of change instead of forgetting about them and just because we are better than we have the solutions What do you think our biggest issue right now as a species I’m debating actually

44:10

Done quite a lot. I don’t know which one to pick. I mean you got to climb like a so let’s move it like as a species that’s all for human species and either climate or devolution of technology.

44:31

So the evolution of technology is an issue. I don’t you don’t think it’s an advantage. It will be an advantage but it will also be an issue.

44:38

I think a is both

44:42

What do you think is the worst case scenario for technology evolution ah technology evolution is that if people is how decision or make with their with everyone

45:00

Most probably that is not going to be involved in technology now, is it? Does it represent a threat as a species? No, because there is going to be a certain part of our human species that are going to live and are going to live very well. So I don’t think probably we were like, in this case that the climate is probably what’s going to affect everyone on the same level.

45:20

The majority are on the same level, so probably that one, do you think the Matrix or the Terminator scenario? Do you think it’s gonna, it’s real? Like, do you think it’s, let’s say, 70% chance of it happening, machines rise up, want to kill people, people rise up, the world goes to waste?

45:43

Is a possibility. I’m not excluding it, do I think it’s gonna happen? Probably not. But someone puts a code in the AI that gives them that prompt.

45:55

Lot of screwed up human beings, they will love to see that scenario happening. You just don’t know who’s working behind the machine. And what prompts are going to give at the source code? And if it can be just buried somewhere at some point it just develops. So

46:12

I think the big question is, can someone like GPT, or a similar form of AI? Become self-aware? Because now it’s just executing commands. But at what point? Can it start making its own decisions and having its own opinions? I probably will. That’s why I do a lot of VR and I’m not involved in today, I feel so that’s why I cannot give you a specific answer. All I know is the YouTube videos that I watched about charging PT. So

46:41

That’s what I know about AI. This is my expertise in AI and how to create great prompts for marketing.

46:47

But the

46:50

There are a lot of people that know a lot about AI that are worried. What I’m worried about from what I know, from my standpoint, is that whoever controls AI controls access to information.

47:03

And this is what can create a digital dictatorship, which, you know, there are already several digital dictatorships. But he can announce it even more, because now he’s like, Who Controls AI controls the output? Who controls the algorithms? Who controls what is going to give out?

47:25

One is that when we had when Google became a big monopoly on search, nobody really raised any red flags and be like, Okay, well, Google has the search algorithm. So they control a huge part of the narrative. Whenever somebody’s looking up, a political candidate, like Google, can actually present any sort of information they want. So they support one or the other. I mean, it’s game over. And there’s a great documentary about stuff like that. It’s called the great hack about,

47:55

About the way social media has played a role in the election. But also, there’s another one, the inconvenient question or something like that. It’s a documentary about Google, and how it can predict how we think what we ask and where we go. And, you know, they say that sometimes we get a feeling that the phone is listening to us because we had a conversation with a friend about the trip to France. It is it’s not just a feeling, it’s just no, no, but here’s the thing, they say that it’s not that it’s listening to you, that it’s actually it collects so many points of data that it predicts it can simply predict what you’re thinking about, when you’re thinking about it. So it knows that come July, you’re like, really wanting to go to France, you know, just because of all the data they got on you. And they’re actually really good on connecting all the different data points to specifically to you, like they’re not allowed to, to personalize the data, but they know to collect it, and they know to track you down through all the various different means, which are, which are one side is like marketers paradise. Like if I put my marketer’s hat on, this is so cool. This is actually really cool. It is, but there’s a problem. There’s a problem. And the problem is that it cost five times more money today to acquire a customer than it was

49:22

Even 10 years ago, five years ago. And you know, and that’s in spite of having more data points, that’s in spite of having better targeting.

49:31

Right. So as a marketer, you might think it’s paradise. But in reality, when everyone has access to that information, all of a sudden, there’s so much noise that, you know, the same marketers ruin everything.

49:46

It’s so true. You know, some things are just true. All these clichés are just true. So no one raised any red flags about Google having a monopoly on search. And now everyone’s afraid of challenges.

50:00

At or open AI labs, you know, having a monopoly on AI, you know, because now we’re seeing so many apps that are basically just chatting to rappers, where, you know, an app will do something. But what it really does is it calls on chatbots. And now that they’ve opened their API, anyone, I’ve already received probably about five or six emails of software that within a week, they’ve integrated already charging between their own systems. I use a CRM a, like a productivity, you know, like project management software, it’s called infinity. And they integrated like within a week, which rgpd and you can use it charged up within the software and interacts with the software,

50:44

With the tables that you can create, prioritize things for you, and so on. So

50:52

But the source, is there one? And I’m not saying, yeah, they started that I think, inherent with technology, we added with Facebook, we added with Twitter, we are with every social media platform, we do Google.

51:05

But it goes back to being created by human beings, the human being that creates it will have a policy and opinions on one side, and then we’ll interact with governments that will have their agenda.

51:18

And now is between the individual opinions of the person of the

51:25

Personal people that control that, plus their governmental agenda, how they’re going to come together, and that’s what we are going to get. So it’s gonna be interesting. That’s all I can say. It’s just gonna be a lot of speculation of what can happen, what might happen. We will see what I think, would we what I don’t want us to forget, is that for us to stay in our lane, and what I mean about this, I mean, the message for me, that’s what got me through everything in life, is I What’s my lane? What’s my lane? What am I passionate about? What do I want to contribute to society, because I can fight every battle?

52:09

And not every battle is for me to fight.

52:12

But I can pick the one that I’m really inspired to, to defy for and I can pick the one that I really believe in, and then see what allows me whether it leads me or what I’m going to create because of it. And I think that’s a message for everyone who’s watching or listening. There are so many battles to fight. There are so many things to change. But what’s going to be your role and everyone is going to be so self-aware that they are going to be able to find their role in all this ever changing world. They’re going to be the one that are going to be making the biggest impact and they’re going to or at least being fulfilled. That’s why.

52:54

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