Designing a Business Around Your Flaws With Internet Marketing Pioneer Rich Schefren

I’m Igor Kheifets and this is the list building lifestyle. The podcast for anyone who wants to build a wildly profitable email list working from home. If you’d like to make six figures travel the world and help people improve their lives in the process, this podcast is for you. I also invite you to claim a free copy of my bestselling book, the list building lifestyle Confessions of an email millionaire at www.igorsbook.com. Get the free book plus $3,000 bonus package that includes my best capture page templates, email, swipe files, and traffic blueprints, visit www.igorsbook.com for details. And now it’s time to claim your list building lifestyle.

00:50

Welcome back to the list building lifestyle. My name is Igor Kheifets and today I’m hosting a living legend Mr. Rich Schefren. The guy behind the first webinar, the ultimate Internet Marketing Manifesto. The first I think of is the viral report in the digital marketing space. I mean, he’s probably one of the forefathers of many techniques that we’re using today to make money. And I’m pretty sure whatever techniques you use in your online business right now could be tracked to either rich, or one of his students or partners that he’s working with. His testimonial shelf is full of big names that we all consider gurus. And it’s a true pleasure to be able to spend the next 3060 minutes with him picking his brain. So Rich, welcome to the list building lifestyle. Excited to be here, Igor, both of us go way back on, you know, being online early on. So this should be a fun conversation. We both have a lot of perspective. So I think it’ll be fun.

01:53

Yeah, absolutely. I still remember when I was just getting going. Think Frank Kern was launching mask control 2.0. He did that whole video series with a tiny little guitar that he was playing and, you know, things like that. And that was the time also, when I think you released the giant report. It was one of the first few instances of somebody just putting together a really valuable piece of content. And, and it’d been just going to just spread across and all of a sudden, it’s everywhere. Everyone’s talking about it, which is, you know, a technique that doesn’t seem to work as much anymore. And we’ll get into the whole conversation about diminishing returns in a bit. But first, I want to share with you how, when I was on my way up, I was listening to somebody who was a student of yours who worked privately with you, Alex Jefferies. And I was working with Alex on something I don’t remember what. And I asked him a question. And he says, well, Igor, you know, if you want to get better answers, you should ask better questions. And that’s something Rich Schefren taught me. I was like, I yeah, I guess you’re right, that was really profound. So since that moment, I really started, you know, spending more time on the question than I would on the answer. Because what I’ve learned is, if I could just phrase that question correctly, then the answer could almost pop at me on its own. So can you talk us through this concept and maybe share with us? How did you come up with it? Or maybe where you learned it? And because it’s a tremendous problem solving skill that I think many people are missing today?

03:36

Yeah, I’d love to, and I’d love to hear more like, what you how it impacted you and what, you know, what distinctions you made from it. For me, I would say that, you know, in my experience with coaching entrepreneurs, quite often, they don’t spend enough time thinking overall, and, and that kind of occurred to me in all the conversations that I’ve had with entrepreneurs. And, and, you know, I have a pretty bad addiction, and I have my own set of laws. And so I’ve kept a journal for the last 30 plus years. And one of the reasons that I’ve kept a journal is that I found that for myself, that a lot of times, I could go on autopilot, and like two or three weeks can go by a month could go by where I really didn’t do much. And so because I kind of was just going through the motions, and I find that I traditionally will do that. If I don’t have a place to like, I constantly check in to kind of remind myself what’s important, all those kinds of things. And so I spend a lot of time in my journal and I kind of do my thinking in my journal, right like and it’s like a place to kind of stay abreast of what’s going on and where I’m trying to get to and So, um, you know, in my journal, oftentimes, I will be reflecting on, you know, either what’s currently going on or what I hope to go on and or what I hope, you know, will happen in the future. And then that kind of drives me down into getting really clear about what are the questions that I need answered, in order to get to where I want to go, right? And so I’m really clear, like I want I’m here right now, I want to be there. In order for me to get there, I believe I need to know X, Y, and Z. And so then I want to make sure one, I really need X, Y, and Z. And then if so where can I get the answer to that? And then, and I’ll circle back on this in a second. And then in addition to that, I asked another question behind that, which, you know, I, this applies to goal setting, but it also applies to questions in that what is it that I have to notice for, right, so like, if I approach if I have this goal? And like achieving something, what do you do? The next question is like, what do I need to be noticing for to alert me of opportunities for that? Right? And most people don’t ask themselves that question like with a goal, right? Like, they don’t say, like, Okay, this is the goal, what can I notice that might help me get there faster? And the same with questions, right? Most people have very fuzzy questions, they don’t really, they’re not clear. They’re asking to know, as opposed to being able to do something. And so I find that, you know, this comes up so often in coaching, because oftentimes, like, they, you know, an entrepreneur would be telling me about a test that they’re running like, or that they want to test. And I’d be like, Well, what is the, what are you going to do with that answer? Like, I don’t understand, like, what the bigger question is being answered, and then they would oftentimes not know either, right? And, and so then it was like, okay, so then you’re doing this task, but you really don’t have a question that you’re answering? And what kind of questions could we develop? Right? So I think it’s for a lot of people. It’s just pure, I don’t want to say laziness, because like, maybe most people haven’t had the experience of having like, thought through something and refined something down to a specific question that if they got the answer would make a profound difference. But that’s the work that I do in my journal. And when I’m really clear, I guess, about the importance of that question, right? Like, let’s say, you know, I want my business to be 5 million, I want to do 10 million, and I spent some time writing in my journal about, like, what needs to change in the business in order for us to go from five to 10 million. And now like, I’ve boiled that down to a specific area of our business that is weak, that needs to change in order for us to get to 10 million. And I’m convinced that that’s the thing, right? And now, the question is, like, how do I get our copywriting team to double our output? Because like, that, to me, is the thing that’s gonna get us from five to 10 million. Right? Now. It’s like, taking time to really, like think about that question, right? And then to very quickly go well, who do I know who has the answer to that question? How can I ask that question? And then start right. And if I don’t get the right answer to them, reflect back and say, like, am I asking the right question, but I’m not sure that I’m answering your question. Like as it relates to that. So

08:38

Now, it’s really cool to hear your experience with journaling, because I’ve been doing my journaling on and off. I’m only 34. So I only started journaling around 1819 or something like that, because I learned that that’s a constant. That’s something successful people do plus, I’ve always been very emotional and very, you know, my head would always be full of thoughts and I needed an outlet where I could dump all of them. So if you look into my, into my, if you will journal over the years, and I tried to, something was gonna go on paper, sometimes they’ll write in my Evernote, but it’s almost like I’m a little bit and I’m just crying about things. And it’s just I think we all do. Yeah, yeah, just dropping everything that’s in my head into the document. But I really liked what you said, almost like I was lazy, right? I know, not everyone’s lazy as far as thinking goes, but a lot of people are. And that’s something that I’ve noticed a lot, especially since moving to Canada, because living in Israel, people are really active thinkers. Everyone has an opinion. But once I remember going into a Genius Network and meeting Dan Sullivan, and told them that I was from Israel. So he said, Oh, you know why there’s a reason you shouldn’t be a coach in Israel. I said why? He says because it’s hard to be a coach. In the country that has 8 million coaches. So, you know, everybody has an opinion. But over here, it seems like people settle into a groove or they sort of abide by a standard or a norm. And they don’t really go outside of it. They don’t really question the status quo much. And it seems like the entrepreneurs are the only ones who I would say aren’t lazy thinkers. And another concept, which you mentioned is specificity. I think that’s even a bigger one. Because the more specific the question, the more specific the goal, the more specific your description of where you’re heading, the more likely you are to get there, right. Like if you, if you put in an address into your sat nav, or GPS, and you don’t put the exact address, you don’t get to get there, it simply won’t know how to take you there. So without getting too much into the law of attraction thing, I don’t mean it to become like, metaphysical or anything. But it goes down to what I think Napoleon Hill spoke about and Outwitting the Devil, which is one of my all-time favorite books, because one of the, you know, one of the tools of the devil that he describes in the book is, you know, drifters, right. So we want the devil ones, people to not have goals, to not think in specifics, and to basically just drift along in life. And that’s how, you know, the devil takes hold of their minds.

11:24

Well, you know, yeah, that’s a, it’s very easy to get caught up into the drift of life. Right? And, you know, I’m a big UFC fan, and I’ve been a UFC fan for about 10 years. Right. And before that, I was not, that’s the only sport that I watch, right? And before that, I watched no sports. And I had very, like, few, like, extracurricular type of activities other than work and studying stuff related to work. And it’s only you know, I’m in my 50s now, and it’s only now like, when I finished my day at like, five or six o’clock, right, like, there are times when I am mentally drained, like, you know, I’m getting older now, right? Like I’m mentally drained. And like, there’s the option of like, doing some thinking work, or maybe watching UFC, right, where there’s no thinking, right? Not and, and I’ll sometimes default to UFC because like my brain is taxed, right. And I’m clear that like, I just don’t want to do any heavy lifting with my brain right now. What’s interesting, though, is that I think that I was really impacted like a bunch of years back. Maybe like four or five years ago, I was really impacted by a gentleman by the name of Thiago forte. He wrote a book called Build a second brain, he has a course called building a second brain, I found him. Maybe it was even longer than five years ago. But it was a while back, I found him because I was doing research on personal knowledge management. And, I came across one of his articles, and his article was insanely great. And he was pulling in stuff that I was, I had taught like Theory of Constraints, but I didn’t see the connections that he was putting together in this article. And I was kind of blown away by it. And so I ended up trading him some of my time for his time. Because I told them, like, Look, man, like your mess, your stuff is great, and has to get out there. But nobody’s searching for personal knowledge management, like, you know, that’s like, you know, you gotta meet people earlier on. And, you know, I learned a lot from him. And one of the things that I learned from him is something that Richard Fineman used to do. Richard Fineman, you know, was a famous scientist, MIT mathematician. And he would always keep a dozen problems in his mind. And so there’s a quote from one of his colleagues, and it’s this quote from one of his colleagues, on how like Richard Fineman, like producing so many outstanding things, you have to keep a dozen of your favorite problems constantly present in your mind. Although by and large, they will be in a dormant state, every time you hear or read a new trick, or a new result tested again, against each of your 12 problems to see whether it helps. Every once in a while, there’ll be a hit, and people will say, how did he do it? He must be a genius. In other words, the five minute approach was to keep a list of a dozen of his favorite problems. These were fascinating open questions that he found himself returning to again and again, his research, and right. And so you can’t in this day and age with like the proliferation of information like everywhere, and you’re never and now like with chat GPT and, like just all these crazy advancements, it’s so Easy to one lose yourself just get swept up into the drift, right and to even if you don’t get swept up into the drift to just not be able to manage the constant flows of information coming at you. And so having like being clear the questions that you’re trying to answer to grow your business, to the questions that you have in your head overall, just bigger questions that are the things that you like, allocate time to makes, going through information processing stuff, just a lot more clear about how to approach the day. And you know, this is a total tangent, but something that I’d love to just bring up really quickly. So, you know, I did coach a lot of people early on online, I was one of the first online business coaches, and a lot of the stuff that I taught. It’s kind of mainstream now. Right? Like, yeah, and a lot of the stuff I taught was not stuff invented by me, it was stuff that I just got access to a lot earlier than most people in our market, I guess, because I worked for Accenture and Andersen Consulting and stuff. But one thing that I taught that never made it popular, but is like one of the most important things that I taught, I felt. So you know, I taught things like, you know, build a business around your strength. And everybody knows that now, right? Like build processes and systems and that your business is kind of broken up by just processes and systems and projects and, and how do you kind of break those up, and those are all like standard stuff. But one thing that I did teach that I don’t see being taught is that is a mistake that I think most entrepreneurs make when they first start out or even, you know, somewhat, even after they’ve started out and they might even be doing halfway decent. And that is that they build a business around their mythical self, that they like when they think about the business of their dreams, they’re also thinking about themselves playing at some absurdly high level, in that business of their dreams. And the truth is, personal change is really difficult. And so what I always did with my clients was like, Let’s Get really clear about your flaws with things like, what you like, what you don’t like, what you can do, what you can’t do, you know, et cetera. And then let’s design the business to be successful without you ever having to change, because the likelihood of you changing makes the likelihood of your business success a lot less. So we’re gonna just like to design this business. So it can be successful based on who you are right now. And so, you know, I did that in my own business around my flaws, and helped a lot of my clients. And I think that a lot of entrepreneurs don’t really kind of recognize the fact that, you know, it’s their kingdom, they make the rules, and they can design this too, to make their flaws irrelevant, and not have to focus on things that they’re bad at. So like in our business, when I first started, and I wrote those reports, I was writing those reports, because each of those reports then released a program that I was going to coach and do live, I was going to do it one time live. And then from there, it would be a product that we would offer ongoingly. And the reason it was done that way is because I couldn’t be trusted to complete a program on my own, like I needed a crowd in order to disappoint because if I didn’t, I would never get it done. So my business was designed, so that I could be like a perfectionist slash procrastinator, who wouldn’t get courses done on their own, like be forced to get courses done in a way that keeps the business going. And so, and there’s a lot of other examples, but I think that that’s something that a lot of entrepreneurs get wrong. And, you know, one of the things that they could get clear about like in the questions that they ask themselves is what specifically needs to change in this business for it to be a lot more successful if I don’t change at all? And, they would get some interesting answers, I’m sure of that question.

18:58

Yeah, first off, he I definitely don’t see other people talk about this. And this is big, because it can actually go not only into your business, but into your personal life. And because I’ve seen this play out many times before, both in my personal life and business, here’s an example of this, from my personal life, which is very simplistic, but it’s so true. Basically, at one point, I realized I didn’t want my wife to cook anymore. Not to say that she’s bad at it. It’s just It would take a lot of time. And it would actually make her feel miserable. Because she would always have to be deciding what to cook and then she would make it so that you wouldn’t be worried like, is it good? Or is it not? And you know, he would always like to be stressed out about it. So I said let’s bring someone else to do it. Eventually. It took me about six to 12 months or so. But she agreed. And we brought someone else to deal with a couple of times a week and what’s interesting is that this person would prepare the food and I was when I wanted to eat, I had to take the food out and, you know, warm it up and eat it. Now, what I noticed is that I can only sustain up to two degrees of separation between the food and me. Otherwise the system fails. For example, So let’s say, you know, I open the fridge and there’s a few boxes and there’s like, let’s say there’s potato, and there’s chicken. So I take the potato and the chicken out, put it on the plate, put it in the microwave, warm it up, none. Okay, I’m eating. But if there’s ingredients that are in the fridge that you take out, put them on the plate. And there’s also something else that I need to for example, cut, like if there’s like, you know, if I wanted to salad or something, right, so I needed to take a couple of things in ingredients and cut them off and put them in a bowl, etcetera. So the cutting and putting the bowl, that doesn’t work for me. So anytime I needed to do that I actually defaulted away from it, and went for something and didn’t require it. And so realize that there can only be like up to two stages, which means taking the food and warming it, right that I can go take the food, cut the food and warm it, like that’s not gonna work. So there’s one, one tiny little step in between success and failure. And then just, you know, I kind of said, well, that’s, I guess that’s what I am. And then I taught the person who was cooking to prepare the food in a way that didn’t require me to cut anything or do anything. And I became a much happier person as a result, because I wasn’t frustrated anymore about having food that I couldn’t eat, because of my own flaws. And I think that’s such a tremendous tip. Because I see a lot of people get sucked into this positive thinking or motivational thinking, where they’re like, watch a YouTube video where Les Brown has given a talk and they’re like, dammit, this is it. This is it tomorrow, I’m totally training for UFC or something, you know, like, they’re like, I’m totally going to change all of my habits, I’m going to change my diet, I’m going to change my schedule, but you see that thing gonna happen. There’s a reason why, you know, you’re acting this way, you’ve got habits that were formed over the years, you’ve got life circumstances that you can just ignore, like, you say, Okay, I’m gonna wake up at 5am to go to the gym. But you know what, if you’ve got a newborn, and you only go to bed at three, you’re not gonna wake up at five, it’s not gonna happen. So being able to admit that to yourself, and then structure your life and your business around, you know, taking your flaws and your strength into consideration is an amazing thing. Like at one point, I found myself shifting from just being very secluded, just writing my emails, and then mailing you know, sending my ads out, etc., to actually bringing in more people into my world, through joint ventures and things like that. It required doing coal. And very quickly, within a few months, I discovered that coal is a draining experience for me, like, I can invest two hours into writing a copy, and that won’t be as draining for me as having a one hour phone call with somebody for some reason. So you know, I noticed that whenever I would do calls in the morning, it would totally kill the rest of my day. Like, like you said, like you want to, you don’t want to do heavy lifting with your brain. So that was me, like by 11 o’clock. I’m like, like a vegetable, I want to go watch football or something. So the way I address that is I shifted my schedule to do calls later in the day. So I would do my copywriting in the morning. But for reading in the morning, and then I would do the coals after lunch. Because after lunch, I was feeling down anyway, I was heavy. So you know, I would do the calls. And I would push through the calls. And I didn’t feel guilty anymore for not being productive. That thing.

23:51

That’s interesting is that all calls,

23:55

All call calls, every sales cold coaching call interview call meeting with a team member. And that doesn’t have to be about business either. Like if I have a phone call with a property management company, or if I have a phone call, where I’m like, talking to a lawyer about my traffic ticket that I want to cancel out. It can be anything at all. So I pushed all the calls to the afternoon because I would just not pick up the phone in the morning just period. I was so protective of my morning hours.

24:26

That’s interesting. Yeah, I mean, I have it where it’s more like I guess for me, it’s more that people’s energy is infectious for me. And so if I’m talking to people who are up and high energy, I tend to feel up and have high energy too. And if I’m talking to someone who is down and low energy, generally they will take me down and In low energy, right, okay, so for me, like, I’m careful with who I talk to, and when, like, you know, because there are a lot of people I can talk to in the morning that actually, like, make, like, the conversation is empowering and charging, like, but then there are people that like, yeah, I have to make at the end of the day because like, I don’t want that, you know, I don’t want that. But, you know, and for me, it’s like noticing who, you know, where that person kind of ways for me? You know? Yeah, yeah. And the, but I do think that you know, I used to, when I used to do a lot of coaching, you know, I coach today, but I coach like, 20 private clients, it’s not like, hundreds of people, right. And when I, when I was coaching hundreds of people, and, and it was a mixture of group plus some one on one. You know, my schedule was slammed, right. Like, I think that the most I ever had was like, close, I think was like 187 clients. And so in our, what private clients, well, group slash private, so they all got private time with me. So half an hour every other week. So I was doing like 50 hours a week. And, and to do that many people, like, I’m not prepping before the call, right? Like, I can’t write. And, and each call is a half an hour. And there, it’s the onus is on them to get for me what they most need, right. And so, the first call generally never would go well, for people, they wouldn’t know how to maximize the time, but by the second and third call they did. And part of the reason like for that was, as an entrepreneur, you need to know what questions you need to get answered. Like always, and, you know, a lot of the I can trace back a lot of my success to knowing what those questions were. And then when I had the opportunity to get a question answered, I did, right. So like, you know, even in my previous business, before I got online, I had a Hypnosis Center that grew into a chain of hypnosis centers. And, and I was convinced that I don’t know if this guy was ever well known up in Canada, but in New York, where I grew up, he was sighs Sperling, who was not only the CIO, he was not only the president of Hair Club for Men, he was also a client, and then his like, thing blew away. And so these were ads that were all over the place. And, you know, he took he took hair replacement, back in like 80s, and 90s, I guess, and made it like from a cottage industry of just like little places doing it and turns it into like a company that was advertising an offering this, and, and to me, that was the closest thing to what I was offering in hypnosis, which was also taking it from, like a cottage industry and making it more professional. And I ended up being on a panel with him at some point for early to rise. And so I got a chance to meet him. And I liked that I offered to take him out for lunch. You know, I’d love to ask him some questions. And could I take him out to lunch, and he agreed, and he lived down here in Florida. And so I flew down and had lunch with him and knew the questions I wanted to ask him, right, like, upfront, and because like, this was someone who had done something similar to what I was trying to do back then, and had 20 years’ worth of experience and that, but no, only knowing what questions to ask, would allow me to get the benefit of his experience. Right? And so I am constantly trying to look at my challenges and problems and obstacles and what have you and reduce them down to questions that I’m trying to answer. You know, it’s just, I guess, the natural way I go about it, so that in my day to day, you know, when things pop up, like they are triggering ideas in my head to like to answer that question related to that, you know, et cetera.

29:26

Yeah, you know, as far as questions go, I think they’re really useful, especially in goal setting, because goal setting is a bad rep. People don’t know how to do it. People don’t like to do it. Nobody likes to set a goal and then look at it a year later and say, Oh, I didn’t achieve it. So that doesn’t feel good. But, you know, I’ve had issues with goal setting for the longest time until I switched to the way I asked the question, I basically kind of tricked myself into making goals. Getting effortless. So over the years I’ve discovered, and I guess this is why I love being an entrepreneur because it forces you to do a lot of self-discovery. But over the years I have discovered that I’m a negative driven person, that I’m way more motivated by fear, shame, embarrassment, pain, then, you know, benefits, big ideas and things like that. I’ve been very, it’s been pretty much a theme for my life, like, only stuff like that would motivate me. And instead of asking myself, what would I like to achieve? Or how, like, this is the question that never worked for me? How would I like my life to look like, in five years or one year or describe your perfect day? You know, I woke up on the beach. And that’s not me, it just doesn’t work like that, that never worked for me. So I flipped the script. And I just asked, if I were to die in five years from today, what would be the biggest regret? The single biggest regret that I would have on my deathbed, like the one that I’ve dealt with, I would be so ashamed of. And that instantly puts things into perspective. Like, it doesn’t even feel like effort anymore at that point to write down your goals, because it comes very quickly from me. So, you know, getting the right questions that have, like spending 90% of your time thinking of the right question to ask about any problem you’re facing, versus trying to spend 90% of time thinking of the answer. I think that’s the switch that I’d recommend for anyone who’s stuck right now. Like, because you phrase it, right, it’s almost, you know, half solved, really?

31:47

Yeah, you know, for me, I go about it very differently. Although that’s, I find that interesting, I wrote it down, I’m gonna think about that the, I’ve always been much more

32:05

But way from then, and then towards right, so away from pain versus towards pleasure. And, and what I found was that it worked really well until it did it that, you know, I was afraid of being poor. And then I became more successful than I thought I would be, or, you know, afraid of being fat, and then ended up with like, a six pack. And, you know, and then it’s very, not motivating, because that fear is now further away, it has less power. And I went through, like a midlife crisis in my early 40s around that, because like, everything was better than I had hoped it would be. And yet I wasn’t happy. And, and I didn’t really know how to resolve that. And, what I realized, not right away, unfortunately, was that I am I, a person, this is just for me, personally, I feel most alive when I’m in pursuit. Like, yeah, pursuit of something that matters to me. And so it’s always important for me to be in pursuit. And that goals for me are much more about setting the direction and getting me out of bed, and that the right goal does those two things. And that if I’m not getting out of bed excited, to like, accomplish something, then I have the wrong goal. Because what I realized, and you know, I don’t think this is like news to anyone that, but I just had enough of it for myself that I’ve achieved enough goals to know that, like, the happiness, that achievement of a goal, like, it lasts for like a week or two, like, you know, and then it just kind of like fades into the ordinary. And so if achieving the goal really doesn’t provide that much at the end of the day, where you really get the benefit of the goal is if it’s doing what it’s supposed to be doing in the day to day, which is to excite you, motivate you to get you to take action. So as long as a goal is doing that, for me, it’s the right goal, regardless of like, you know, whether it aligns with everything else later on, like that’s less relevant to me nowadays. What’s more relevant is does it get me going to put me into action? Does it put me into pursuit? And as long as I’m in pursuit, I’m happy and I guess like just to circle back right, like even having like these other questions that I’m trying to answer that are just in the back of my head. operate as like kind of mini goals as I’m going through content as I’m looking through my Evernote, like, as I’m reading in my journal, they just kind of give more purpose to the things I’m doing so that there’s less likelihood of wandering around aimlessly, which is so easy to do nowadays, because there’s a million things that want to distract you. From social media to other people’s priorities to you know, everything.

35:24

Yeah, well, thank you for sharing that, because I remember about. So it’s been about five years since I arrived in Canada. And I remember the first new years that I was spending here, I think, early January 2019, I was in a coffee shop. And it felt really miserable at the time, I was working with Tom Beale, our mutual friend, and Tom actually taught me many of the concepts that he learned working with you, because you guys worked together for like, 10 years or something, right? So for a long, long time. So you know, he taught me so many different things. And we were having a conversation with him. And he was pointing out that I was operating from fight or flight all the time. Right. And, you know, I was telling him that, I recognize that. But I don’t want my kids to be that way. Like, when, when my daughter and my son do stuff, I don’t want them to be doing that out of fear, or out of the desire for survival, which is how I do things tend to be like that. Everything’s like a crisis, everything’s a fire. It’s like, if we don’t fix this now, like paranoia, you know, like, it’s a lot, a lot of that in my life, in my inner world. But for my kids, I really wish they create, I really wish they did things because they wanted to do them because they excite them. And I was wondering how much of my crisis mentality sort of was passed down with my DNA to my kids. And I don’t know how that works, to be honest. But I’m hoping that growing up and growing up in a in a western household of a, I don’t know if I can call myself rich can you know, by today’s standards, because million dollars doesn’t really buy much, but at least upper middle class sort of standards, where they’re all doing okay. I wonder how much that will affect their vision. And they’re a bit like the way they see the world and the way they see themselves, because on one hand, I’m afraid for them to be unmotivated, to basically be sort of settled and be like, Well, I have food, I have this, I have that. And everything’s available to me, it’s very convenient. So I’m not going to strive for much. But at the same time, I don’t want to scare them into it. I don’t want to make them paranoid and obsessed with survival. Like I was growing up with my wife as well, who had to literally shoplift, you know, growing up because they didn’t have food on the table growing up, you know, three kids with a single mom and below, below poverty line. So I don’t know, like, do you have any perspective on how you instill these values, perhaps, or anything you’ve learned along the way?

38:11

I’ve learned a couple things. I mean, I would say that it’s one of my favorite books of all time, because I think it’s something that I naturally gravitate to, but I think it’s a lesson that a lot of people could benefit from. The book is called the courage to be disliked. And it’s the best seller in Japan, I think it’s also been a best seller here in the States since. And it’s about the psychology of Alfred Adler. And I’ve always been a fan of Alfred Adler psychology, he was a pioneer of Freud and Jung, but not as well known as most people had some very different views. And one of the things that Adler talks about is that we all have, like, what he calls our life tasks. And that’s to make relationships work, in work, in friendship and in love. And that what interferes with relationships working is when we interfere on the life tasks of others, like uninvited. And so why is it your kid’s life tasked to do their homework, right? It’s not your life’s task. And, so I’ve always been good about separating those things, primarily because I didn’t have a lot of confidence in my own ability to, to enforce consistent rules, right, like, and I’ve always been told that that’s a harsh Show if you’re not consistent. So instead of being inconsistent, I’ve been consistent in the sense that, you know, there are consequences in life to doing and not doing things. My goal is to help you avoid those consequences, like negative consequences, but it’s not but the consequences are on you. They’re not on me. So like, at a very young age, you know, I’ve had I had old daughters, they can make up their own decision whether they could go out and play or not like, because like, they had to have their homework done the next day, regardless, and it wasn’t my job to make sure that they did their homework, it was their job to make sure that they did their homework. And if they didn’t get their homework done, there’d be consequences at school. And that would be the way it is. And I’d say that, that worked really well for me, and that, like, the girls got it pretty early on. And I would say that the other thing I did, which I am proud of, I think that this made a difference was that I didn’t get it because I almost did, like, I almost got corrupted into not having appreciation for other shit other than my own stuff. Like, you know, like the stuff that I’m interested in marketing, business growth, stuff like that. But, you know, like, when my oldest daughter was interested in baking, right, like, I could go two ways with that, right? Like, I wish he was interested in something else, right? Like, or, like, I can approach it the way I wish. Things were approached with me when I was younger and interested in whatever I was interested in. And so, like, when my daughter was interested in baking, great, let’s like, let’s have you be the best Baker. Possible, right? Like, what do we need to do that, like, let’s hire a baker to come in and teach you how to bake and let’s get all the like, stuff for baking and all the supplies and all that shit, right? And, like, you can, so it’s kind of like, with my kids, it was always like you can be you can be into anything you want to be into. And you can want to like, do whatever it is you want to do. But whatever it is you want to do, I want you to want to be great at what that is. And as long as you’re willing to want to be great, I will support you in any way I can. So, you know, when my kids were interested in karate then they were going to karate all the time when they were not interested anymore. That’s fine, too. But like, you know, always trying to instill a desire to be good or great. Or, you know, fantastic. And I think that’s worked out pretty well. I think that yeah, I used to be completely fear based, completely motivated by like, what the negative things that could happen. And then use that power, like that fear, to work insane hours, like in crunch time to, like, get shit done, right? Like and go days, sometimes without sleep and stuff like that. And, it worked for me. But you can’t, or I couldn’t continue that, like, I’m not at, you know, in my 50s. Now I cannot pull back to back all-nighters and be functional. Like I was in my 20s. Right? Like, it’s just not possible. And I was much more afraid of myself, like, can I work like a normal person? Is it even possible for me to work like a normal person that because like I crammed in college, I worked this way my whole life, like, you know, and it did take a couple of years to kind of reset, you know, that difference and I still am much find it much easier to run away from something negative than to run towards something positive. But I find that on the positive side, breaking it up to be closer in time also works well for me. Putting it down to

43:54

like setting a goal that doesn’t take or taking a big goal and breaking it down into lots of mini goals.

44:02

Yeah, like, in other words, like, right now, like I’m working with my morning routine, and I’m adjusting it and stuff like that. And so there’s no other goal than just right now. Like being able to do that, like this new routine for seven days, like for seven days in a row. And if I do it seven days in a row, it’s a big deal. Right? Like, you know, the goal is to do it every day, consistently forever. But that’s not where I’m at right now. So, you know, it’s, like small goals seem to be big, scary things far away, move me and very, like immediate positive things can move me but big, long term things far away don’t seem to have much power for me, you know? And yeah. And so I just have figured out a way to kind of work around that and I think that that’s part of growing up is an understanding, like, how you work and how to get the best out of yourself. Based on that, you know, like your own rules for how you need to operate that. Ideally, like you’ve lived for 3040 some odd years, you should have some inclination of how you work best, like what works best for you. You know, for me, like, that’s a big part of my journal too, just reminding myself of like, all the things that I’ve tried over all the years, and like the things that stand out as working best, like working towards a timer, while using a mind map early in a project so that I have a place to like, put all my ideas, you know, these are things that I’ve just learned over time, like, of what works best for me and not losing that. And just like, knowing what works best for me, and being okay with it, and I think that that’s part of like, growing up and just understanding yourself better is, is that process?

45:57

Yeah, yeah, I agree. I agree, when you put it that way, that it’s a part of growing up, it was when you are responsible for figuring out what’s working for you, what’s not working for you and to, they take this full ownership of, if things don’t look like, you know, if they don’t look well in life, like if you don’t like the way things are in life, then it’s up to you to change the habits, the circumstance the people, if necessary, because I think you know, what you mentioned about people’s energy being contagious for you, is a huge, huge thing, because I remember in the 48 Laws of Power by Robert Greene, which is another really cool book that I really, really liked to reread sometimes, you know, he talks about people’s attitude being contagious. And he warns about hanging out with people who complain too much for people who get sick too much, because that should kind of wear off on you. And you kind of start modeling that or you start behaving the similar way. Which makes sense. I mean, they talk about, like, tell me what your five closest friends make. And I’ll tell you what you make, or they talk about how if you want to be making more or doing better than you should get into a room full of people who make more and do better, because you will automatically strive to match what’s happening in that room. We’re getting close to time. And I promise to touch on one more thing, which is not so much personal development, but it’s about the game of diminishing returns. It’s something that I’ve only heard you and you alone talk about on the entire Internet. Another author that I believe mentioned briefly was Seth Gordon. But it kind of got lost in the mix. I really think that this is a message that everyone needs to hear from anyone who’s investing time right now, whether it’s social media or any other marketing technique. So I remember when you were, I think it was last year or year before you released a video. And in that video, you spoke about it, doing the first webinar or running the first automated webinar and doing a product launch, etc. And how back when you first started doing that, you had x like your ROI was x, right. And then over time, the more you did in the world that people saw you do it and then modeled after you and all of a sudden that spread and everyone’s doing it all of a sudden the average return from doing something like that was x divided by 1020. And then x divided by 100. And then all of a sudden you found yourself investing way more time, way more effort, way more money to basically get to 1/10 or 100th, of an ROI of something that used to work really well, but doesn’t seem to work as well anymore. And so it created this. And that happened to you over and over and over. Yeah. So can you talk a little bit about that? I do realize that I just pretty much shared the whole idea. But can you talk a little bit about the way the industry is developing? And what are you seeing right now in relation to this concept of diminishing returns?

49:05

Yeah, well, I mean, I think it’s something that most people, when they’re exposed to it, think it’s obvious in hindsight, but they don’t operate that way before, kind of like thinking it through. And that is that. Yeah, no matter what strategy tactic, etc., as it relates to marketing. And this happened offline as well. But it happens online too. There’s a law of diminishing returns over time as the more people that do attack that strategy. Over time, the more powerful the West, the less effective it is over time. And so it’s less powerful and also, you have to do more in order to stand out using that Um, and that, what I found, which was really interesting. When I looked at my own successes and those of my clients, what I found was that my own successes as well as the majority of my clients’ successes came from a single tactic or strategy early in its lifecycle, like soon after its innovation before most people were using it. And that isn’t to say that you need to have everything that you’re doing in marketing be at the cutting edge, because that’s not what I’m saying at all. What I am saying, though, as it relates to this degrading performance, is that nothing that is well known that everybody’s doing is going to cause you momentum, or growth, because you’re using it. So there was a time like when I wrote the internet business manifesto, where having a PDF lead magnet was like, could actually grow your business. Now, that doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t have like a PDF lead magnet today, it just means that it’s not going to grow your business today, it’s necessary, but not you know, it’s, it’s necessary, but it doesn’t cause success, right, it’s not sufficient to cause success. And so, you know, automated webinars, live streaming, all of these at one moment in time could actually give your business a thrust, like extra momentum, because it was all of a sudden, outperforming everything else. And then over time it degrades. But you still might need it, because it’s part of your marketing mix. And so my experience has been that as long as a business has one or two of these strategies or tactics early in its inception, like they have what they need to have that level of increased momentum to actually cause something powerful to happen. Because like online, you need some sort of advantage, or you’re kind of screwed. And this is one way to kind of have that advantage. And it stems from, you know, when I wrote reports back in 2006, to 2008, I wrote the attention, I wrote the internet business manifesto. And then I wrote two kinds of follow up pieces to that missing chapter in the final chapter. But then I wrote two reports called the attention age doctrine, one and two. And in the attention age doctrine, one, I talked about how attention was going to become the scarcest commodity online. And what the implications of that were, and then in the tension, age doctrine two was about how I thought people’s attention was going to go to this new thing, web to social media, right? And what are the implications of that? And what I took away from writing that back in 2007, was that all attention has value, right? Like back then, when I was writing the report, there was something called the Million Dollar Homepage, where a person created just a homepage, and they sold pixels, like and if you like, above, the fold was a million dollars. And people bought all the pixels. And it was like this viral thing that everyone was going to check out who bought, you know, different online casinos bought pieces and stuff like that, right. And that like Paris Hilton, this is back in like, you know, 2007 was getting paid over $100,000 to show up at a nightclub. Because that nightclub would get a ton of press that Paris Hilton showed up at that nightclub, and would get more than $100,000 worth of press at the end. So she was getting paid because she brought attention with her. Right, and there were these vending machines, I think they still have them in Japan, that you paid not with currency for like a beer or soda, you actually watched like two minutes of ads, and then it would give you a beer or a soda, right like and so that like this idea of attention having currency. And you know, the very first time that I was exposed to the impact of a change in this particular case format, but a change in strategy or tactic, etc. And the power that it could have was with Magga logs. So this was offline, right? And when Magga logs for those that don’t know what a mag log is, it’s a sales letter that is packed, being packaged to look like a magazine. And so it has lots of generally valuable content in it. Most of the big publishers, you know, info publishers, newsletters, and health and finance and stuff like that used Magga logs. I’m sure I have a ton laying around here if I just were to like, grab one. But when direct mailers moved to mag logs, they had like a 200 percent 300% 400% increase in response that lasted for a couple of years, until everybody was mailing Magga logs, and now it no longer had that impact, right? And the reason for that is that it, and this is just my belief, you know, I don’t have proof of this. But my belief of why that worked was that it tricked people in a way to get extra bits of their attention. Because it wasn’t like, Oh, this is just a, you know, junk mail kind of thing. And it’s the same reason why like a webinar, or before the webinars teleseminars, or video sales letters, why they worked. So well, in the beginning, I remember, the very first time I saw a video sales letter, and I was like, what the hell is that, like, I was just stuck on the screen looking at it. And other people had that impact, too. And so in the beginning, like these things have the ability to get you extra attention. And because they have the ability to get you extra attention, which is worth so much. It translates into increased effectiveness in the mechanism, and just because of the added attention. And so that is the idea behind that. And that’s why I developed the product, steal our winners, because what we deliver to people are strategies and tactics that are earlier in their inception that most people don’t know about yet. And because I know how vital it is to the growth of a business. That’s something you know, that we publish twice a week, and so forth. But I think that what’s most interesting to me at this moment, right is definitely, you know, it’s January 24 on a Tuesday, right. So what’s most interesting to me right now is Chad GPT, and all the things that can be done with it. So you know, I’m looking forward to doing a couple episodes on that. You know, certain people have figured out different prompts and the way the prompts should go to get different types of output. I’ve also seen two cool things that were really more just tests, but kind of showed the power potentially of someone who I follow, loaded up a bunch of transcripts of Dr. Andrew Huberman podcast and into a GPT chat. And then like the chat GPT has asked Andrew Huberman, right, so you can ask them, you know, it goes through all of his interviews and all his podcasts. And it’s like being able to ask them a question through chat GBT. And then someone else who I was reading just did, loaded all their journals into chat GPT. And like, had like chat GPT like, be able to help analyze themselves like, though, like, when was this person most happy? What, you know, different things like that? And so it’s pretty interesting. And I think there’s, like, tremendous possibilities with that. And even though that does obviously overlap into marketing, I would say that from a marketing side, that’s what I’m most excited about, just at this moment. As someone who has done a ridiculous amount of reading and research and notetaking, over the last 10 years, the idea of being able to feed everything that I’ve taken notes on and recorded and read and loaded into a system that I can interact with is like insanely insane, insanely desirable. And I’m looking forward to seeing how it goes from there. And then I don’t know what the implications are, like, the bigger implications and marketing are going to be pretty extreme, especially when Chad GPT four comes out. You know, I just don’t know how that’s going to impact the content world, because you would imagine it will in a very significant way.

59:02

Yeah, I think a lot of people will be out of a job, the SEO algorithm will change again, things it’ll be a whole new world, which is, you know, that’s

59:12

Just one thing on that, you know, I was just reminded like, it was just like I was talking. I was talking to someone about GPT and, and they were younger than me. They were in their 20s. And they were into it too. And I was like, oh, so where are you? Like, where have you been finding good content? You know, because my go twos are like Google, right? If I want to read some articles, I might go to medium and do a search or go to YouTube and like, do some searching there. And those are generally like the places I go to first right? This person went to Tik Tok. And they were doing a search on Tik Tok and when I thought that was strange, right and then my daughters were home for the Christmas holidays and My oldest daughter who does social media stuff she worked for. She’s worked for barstool and a bunch of others. And she’s like, Yeah, that’s how I do my search and I searched on Tik Tok. If there’s something I want to find out, I search on Tik Tok, right, like, and it’s just that things change, things evolve over time, right? Like, and, you know, check GPT by taking over Google at some point anyway, because it’s better to ask a question than do a search for keywords. But like, you know, my daughter hardly uses email. You know, they use email only to like, talk to older people like me, right, and to talk to like school and stuff like that. But they’re not like, they don’t use email, like, you know, we use email. And they don’t even use Google for search, right, like, and so it’s just, things evolve over time, and being able to spot how these things are evolving. If you’re towards the forefront, as opposed to behind you capitalize on it the most, right? Like, the time to blow up on Facebook and Instagram are long gone. They’re over. Yeah, like doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t be on Instagram and Facebook, but you’re not, you’re not gonna build a, you know, a 2 million follower Instagram account today, like you could five years ago, if you’d started five years ago. And so, you know, knowing that is then to recognize like, well, where’s the next thing gonna be? Let me go over there first, so that I can at least, like, have the possibility of doing that. And, and I’ve seen that time and time again, right, like, of people who got on early to different platforms being able to benefit from it dramatically. You know, and I think that being aware of that just helps you be a better marketer.

1:01:45

Yeah, absolutely. Right. We’re really out of time. But it’s a great transition into, you know, presenting you with a spotlight to talk a little bit about Steeler winners, because I believe that’s like the project where you’re putting most of your attention these days. And I think it’s a tremendous project, I kind of when people ask me about it, I kind of call it Netflix, for internet marketers, Netflix for entrepreneurs, really. But I think it’s a little bit more than that. So can you maybe spend next, give us the elevator pitch, and tell us where we can go and check it out.

1:02:18

You know, like we were talking about its strategies and tactics that are currently crushing it online that most of the world doesn’t know about yet. And so we have about 200 Plus contributors of which you’re one of them all at the top of their game, who share strategies that are currently working in a way that it’s easy to replicate, and do. And so they run from everything from media buying to creating a YouTube channel to tic toc advertising, you name it, like, you know, we run a wide gamut. It’s available at strategicprofits.com. And we have like a trial offer, I’m sure. But at strategicprofits.com. And, you know, the idea is that most people never have the chance of getting a strategy or tactic when it’s early. And in a way that’s very easy to follow. And so we publish two episodes a week. They’re anywhere from 30 to 60 minutes long. And they are all about someone who has figured out something that is working right now that’s really driving the needle towards success. And so we have you it’s been a really, it’s something that, from my experience, most people who are struggling online, one of the main reasons they’re struggling online is that they’re using all tactics that cannot provide momentum. And that’s natural to kind of fall into because that’s just like what everyone’s doing. But what everyone is doing will not give you an advantage and won’t give you momentum. So if you’re looking for what will really move the needle in marketing, come check us out at Strategic Profits, and the name is steel. Our winter is the name of the product.

1:04:11

Awesome, guys. So you heard about its strategicprofits.com Check it out. It’s called Steeler winners. It’s a video content video format. So you can watch it. Even when your brain doesn’t want to do any heavy lifting. I actually tend to watch it on the weekends. And I’ll give a testament or testimony for this. The last episode I watched was an episode that you’ve done with Chris Dodd. And he shared his YouTube ad structure, basically a YouTube ad that he uses in teaching women relationships or something like that niche. And he you know, what I really liked about it is if I were to see this ad, and I would be like, Oh, that’s really cool. I want to model that. Without him breaking down the context and why it works. I wouldn’t be able to model it successfully. But I watched the episode which I think was 30 minutes long. But I only watched like 15 minutes because I kind of skipped the meat and potatoes. And then at the same moment, I sat down, I put up the slides on screen, and I basically copied this ad, only replacing certain benefits and features and changing the contents of it to fit my niche. I ran it the next day. And basically now it’s become one of the three YouTube ads that I run nonstop. So I mean that that’s really powerful because I don’t get to say that about too many tactics, I definitely don’t get to say that about too many services out there that claim they provide cutting edge techniques. But in reality, they’re only built to kind of support the bias of the owner of the service, where they sort of reiterate the same thing over and over again, with your service. It’s really just like, like, like a Vegas buffet of techniques and strategies, scripts, templates, pages, ads, traffic sources, it’s like it’s crazy. Like it feels like a candy store for someone like me who wants to be on the cutting edge of marketing. So I highly recommend checking out the Steeler winners at strategicprofits.com For sure. And before I let you go, I’m gonna ask you one more question. Since we’re overtime anyway. So if you could, if you could go back in time, say 10 years back in time and meet yourself back when you were in your early 30s. In your early 30s or early 40s. Or early. What would you tell yourself?

1:06:49

You know, I’m pleased where it all ended up. You know, I guess if there was anything that maybe I would have done differently, and maybe that like, but I don’t know if I would or not like so when I wrote like the attention age doctrines. At that time that was like, yeah, 2007 is. I was really close friends with Gary Vaynerchuk. We went to the first South by Southwest together, like I wrote, like the first blog post about Twitter in our market, because Gary had convinced me to get on Twitter, like a couple days after he got on Twitter. And, you know, I’ve been partners on and off with Jay Abraham for like, 20 years. And unfortunately, like I’ve had these two mentors, right, Jay is one of them. And Mark Ford, who’s one of the founders of agora is another one of my mentors, two guys that were kind of like, who are like father figures to me. And they’re both very different. And, and unfortunately, I’m more like J than I’d like to be. And I wish I was more like Mark. So J gets excited about stuff, and then does something with it. But then once he’s done something with it doesn’t really have much more interest in it, right? Like kind of has his intellectual way, like a one night stand with a concept. Right. And once he’s had his way, he’s really not that much interested anymore. And I kind of am guilty of that myself. And where most of the money is made, is later on. Right, like, so like Jay and I did this course on being an authority in your market. I think it was the first course on that. But once we were done with that course, like we moved on to different things like you know, that’s a whole industry, right? Or like when we did the webinars like I did the webinar thing, the automated webinars, but I never created a course on webinars like that wasn’t my thing. Right. And I just moved on,

1:08:54

I actually happen to know that you also built an automated webinar software.

1:09:00

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So I would say that, like, I don’t know, if my advice would be like, find the thing and stick with it. But like, you know, I would say that I’m certainly not personally on the same level as Tim Ferris, or Gary Vaynerchuk, or any of those guys, but I was with them early on. And I wonder if I would have just stuck to one thing, if things would have been even possible for me because I don’t know if it is, but I would say that you know, certainly, I’m well rounded. But I would say that maybe I should have focused more on Twitter at that moment when Gary was really talking to me like, Dude, this is gonna be huge. You should be on it. Like, you know, I mean, I started an account that day, but like I didn’t, I didn’t do much with it right. And I saw the same thing like with Instagram or, you know, I’ve seen this over and over again, but just never applied to like, I’m gonna mess with somebody big on this. Platform like that kind of thing. And I do think that there certainly is a benefit today to kind of mastering a platform, especially if you can get there early. Right. Like, you know, if you can be a big deal on tick tock right now that could be that could really power a business in the future. Right? And, you know, in fact, there’s a guy that I’m doing an interview with, who’s built a $100 million business by hiring people, teaching them how to be influencers on Tik Tok, and then leveraging the trap, like they just get paid a salary. And then he’s a $100 million Company doing arbitrage with the traffic that these influencers on Tiktok he’s generating, right. So there’s lots of opportunity there. And, you know, my ADD has me go from one thing to the next. So I don’t know if I could do that differently. But if I, that would probably be the one thing and then I’d say the other thing is, is that especially if it was 10 years ago, that was at the like, yeah, that was at the beginning of my midlife crisis. And so I would just tell myself that it’s all going to be okay, because like, for a couple years there, it was pretty shitty. And

1:11:15

Is the midlife crisis, we people mentioned it a lot, but how do you

1:11:20

Life like crisis is like, where you, there’s a couple things one is, is like, like, from a, from a, like a psychological perspective, there are stages of life that needs to be kind of addressed, you know, at different stages of your life. And when they’re not fully handled, they can root themselves back up later on in life, because like they weren’t handled, right. And so that’s part of it. The other part, though, is recognition of your own mortality. And, you know, we all know that we’re going to die, right? But like, at some point you are, I don’t want to say in a negative way, but I guess you’re stuck with the life that you have, right, at some point, the realization, that who you dreamed about becoming, or the life that you dreamed that you were going to one day have is not like that, this is what it is? Right now that and you’re living it? Right? And, and so there’s a come to grips with, like, what you thought your life was going to be? And the reality of what it is? And, and, and that can be somewhat, you know, is this all there is right? Is it like, what am I living my life for? Like? Am I just here to fill a role? Like, make sure my kids like, get into school like that my wife is not alone? Like, is that what my life has all come down to? Is this what it is? Right? So for me, it was much more that like, my own mortality, and recognizing that there were things that I thought would make me happy that we’re not making me happy. And when I looked into the future, I didn’t see anything being different. And I was not happy. And like, is this, like, is this at now? Like, is this going to be at you know, and, and so unresolved issues, kind of fall their way forward from a standpoint that maybe for some of us, it’s the first time that we’re really clear that like, we aren’t going to grow out to be everything that we ever wanted, there are going to be things that are going to be left undone, there are going to be fantasies that are going to be left unfilled. And like, how does that land? Right? Like, you know, like, is that okay? Or not?

1:13:38

Wow, that’s first and thank you for explaining it to me, because he’s just saved me 30 seconds, with GPT. So, but I can totally relate to that, man. I started going through something like this, something like that a couple years ago. And it’s exactly you described, like, Is this is this all? Like, is my life gonna be amounting to this, and for some reason I’ve been dreaming about, you know, becoming a millionaire or kind of getting out of poverty and everything. But even though I have that it doesn’t seem to be exciting. You know, like, it was supposed to be a lot more exciting than it is, it just feels normal. I think as far as life satisfaction than my life is any different from my neighbors who works a regular job, you know,

1:14:27

But it could be and you know, and part of it is being clear about like

1:14:37

What you have to be grateful for in the life that you currently have, and then what is potentially still possible that you can aspire to right, you know, right. And you know, for me, it was retreating. I took a bunch of years off. I spent a lot of time with my kids, right and because you know now they’re all at college. So like they’re not home anymore. And it was, yeah, about like, it was a reset really of like thinking through like now what’s it like? What? Okay, what was important to me? Nothing wrong with that, but is it still? And now based on this? How am I gonna live for the next 3040 Whatever years based on, you know, what I’ve learned and who I am today and who I think I might be in the future, you know?

1:15:31

Well, it definitely gives me something to think about tonight. Look, I really appreciate you spending way more than an hour actually close down and have plenty of thrilled. It was a tremendous, tremendous conversation. Guys, if you got a taste today of what sort of Thinker Richard Furness, it should have probably made it clear to you why people come to him for advice. So, whether you want to be on the cutting edge of marketing, whether you want to work privately with the rich, whether you want to just be a part of his world, you should go and check out strategicprofits.com Sign up for steel or winners, check out the trial. I’m sure there’s a trial for these 1430 days for sure. And if you’re great at consuming content, which we all are in those 14 days, you can probably pick up millions and millions of dollars’ worth of advanced and, and really easy to simply implement tactics that you can take care of like take action on right away. So go check it out. strategicprofits.com Again, Rich, thank you so much for spending this time with me. It was tremendous. It is now officially one of my favorite episodes of all time.

1:16:48

Cool, man. Well, I appreciate you. Thanks for inviting me. And if you ever want me back, just let me know.

1:16:54

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