How To Make Six Figures a Month With a 2.2 GPA

Could a family dinner change your life? Exclusive confession on the List Building Lifestyle! Julian Sherman was awkwardly stumbling through early adulthood when he got swooped into becoming an internet marketer after attending an otherwise boring family dinner one Friday night. Since he’s become a 7-figure earner and one of the most recognized super-affiliates in our space.


Igor Kheifets: I'm Igor Kheifets and this is the List Building Lifestyle, a podcast
for those who want to build a large profitable email list and make six figures from
anywhere in the world. If you would like to get rich by building a large email list
while helping people, this podcast is for you. I also invite you to attend a free web
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Secure your free seat at Attend this free workshop to discover an easy
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it's time to claim your list building lifestyle.

Welcome back to another edition of the List Building Lifestyle with your host,
Igor Kheifets. My next guest comes from Miami, Florida and he's somebody who went
from average to extraordinary in his online business. He made the classic journey
that almost every single person in the online marketing space has made who became
successful in the last five to seven years. He started out in a company called
Carbon Copy Pro, made his way to an offline company when he didn't experience
success with CCP, then went back online and finally succeeded for the first time
with a company we all know Empower Network that's no longer around. From there, he
switched to a different company made another six figures, multiple six figures.
And from there, when that company shut down, unfortunately he moved into a company
that he's with right now and is now making six figures a month. His success has
been gradual, but also very, very fast because he's only 23 years old and he's
already able to not only make ridiculous amounts of money each and every single
month, but also traveled the world and be carefree when it comes to his personal
freedoms. So today, I'd like to tap into his brain and find out the secrets behind
his success, which he claims to be mostly internal. So today we're going to be
focusing on the mindset game and on the internal part of success. So help me
welcome my guest, Julian Sherman. Jules, come on out.

Julian Sherman: Yo, yo, what's up brother? Although I will say I wish I was 23,
but 23 is when I started, I'm 27 now, although I do wish I was younger knowing the
things I know now, but what's going on bro?

Igor Kheifets: Oh wow, okay. Well then we're canceling. I mean I'm not
understanding in conducting this interview anymore.

Julian Sherman: Just kidding bro. Thanks for having me out, bro. It's an honor

Igor Kheifets: My pleasure. My pleasure. After attending one of your events and
seeing the kind of crazy results that your clients are getting, the kind of crazy
results that your teammates are experiencing right now and how the group was so
vibrant and so tight. I had to get you on the show because if you're transferring
what you know to them and seeing that success they're experiencing as far as they
know, you have 50 students that are making six figures right now. Then I want to
share this information with the List Builders and that's how we call our audience
here. Jules, why don't you go ahead and share with us how did you get into the
online marketing space? How did you get into Carbon Copy Pro, and what is the
reason you think you didn't succeed with it?

Julian Sherman: Yeah, totally man. It's actually funny because a lot of people in
our industry, they come from some sort of cold advertisement. They see an ad on
YouTube or Facebook or Instagram. They connect with somebody and all of a sudden
they're in this industry. My story was a bit different, I never got good grades in
school, I barely graduated high school. I had like a 2.2 GPA, which I think is
equivalent to like a C minus or a D plus. I could barely graduate and it's not
that I couldn't, like anytime I really sat down and studied and did it, I would
get good grades. But the reason I didn't do that was because I just looked at
every single person who went down that path and got the A's, got the 4.0, and I
looked at those people's lives after that and I was like, "I want nothing to do
with that. I don't want to work in a job. I don't want to be in a cubicle. I don't
want to do these things that society says is the right thing to do, get the piece
of paper work, work 40 years, work to home, home to work, work to home." Like the
thought of that made me just sick. But the problem was, was that although I knew I
wanted to do business, I want to do something in business. The problem that, you
know, maybe you listening or somebody listening to this can relate to is I didn't
have any money, I didn't have any money. So how am I going to start a business? I
didn't know about online business. So when I looked at franchises or different
offline businesses, which I didn't know there were online businesses, I was like,
"Okay, I need at least 50 grand, 100 grand," in McDonald's franchise, you need a
million dollars just to get your foot in the door in a McDonald's franchise and
you're not even expecting to see profits for three to five years. You have to deal
with rent, inventory, space, employees, overhead and all those headaches that are
associated with an offline business. So I was kind of just in this weird phase of
like not doing anything society was doing but also not doing anything else because
I didn't know what to do. So I became like, I literally would just like sit around
all day, smoke weed and just try to figure out how I'm going to make it in this
world. And it wasn't until I come from the Russian Jewish background. I kind of
like yourself, Igor and we have these big like Sabbath dinners on Friday nights
with family and friends. So I used to go to these dinners and there would be a lot
of family and family and friends, maybe like 50, 60 people once a month. And I
remember that every single time I would go to these dinners, there would be these
two brothers, there would be these two brothers who I would always talk to and the
types of conversations I would have with them. We're just different than the
regular conversations of like, how's school, how are your grades? These were
conversations where these guys, I didn't know them that well, they weren't blood
related, but we were related through like different marriages and stuff. And they
would always ask me questions of like, "Julian, what do you really care about?
What excites you to wake up, what do you fear most?" And they were asking me
questions that I never really thought about, so I was always intrigued of like
talking to these guys. When I got to the point where I was like, you know what, I
love these conversations I'm having with you guys, you guys think on a whole
another level outside of the box. I was wondering like what they do for an income,
because these were well put together guys that were in really good shape. They
were building businesses and basically these guys made millions of dollars in real
estate lending up until 2008 and we all know that what happened in 2008, the
economy just crashed, '07, '08, and these guys lost everything in real estate.
Everything in real estate to where they had $400 left to their name after building
multimillion dollar worth of assets and a bunch of business success. So I always
kind of paid attention to them. You know, I knew that I wasn't going to do some
sort of real estate with them. And then one day, Igor, one day this was like my
ad, right? It was technically a warm market ad, is what it turned out to but I saw
a post where one of these brothers was talking about like, "Oh my God, we just
made our first six figures in this online business," after everything crashed in
real estate, if you're interested in like how we did it, you know, I don't
remember if there was a call to action. I don't remember exactly. All I knew is,
is I called this guy right away and I'm like, "What is this about guys like online
business I've never heard of that?" I've seen surveys and all this scammy stuff
out there, but actual like business, a real business I can build with a legacy and
the name behind it, I didn't know that existed. So long story short, I got in with
these guys and I remember specifically Igor, they told me one thing and I think it
is the biggest reason why I'm still around today with all the ups and downs,
having massive months, having slower months. The reason I'm still around today is
because when I got on that first coaching call in that company, it was actually
with Cameron George, but he was on your podcast I think a few weeks ago. He's one
of my mentors and Cameron told me, he's like, "Look, Julian business that is built
in two ways and there's only two ways. There's nothing around it. You either build
a business with your time or with your money. That's how a business is built." And
he's like, "Look, you don't have, I didn't have any money at the time I was going
to community college for a business degree after barely graduating high school, I
couldn't get into any college. So I went to community college." So I had all the
time in the world. I didn't have any money, I would just going to this community
college and he's like, "What's your income goal?" And at that time, you know, my
income goal was like the classic online business income goal, 10,000 a month,
right? He's like, if it takes you four years to make 10 grand a month, would it be
worth it? The way I looked at it was like, well right off the bat I was like,
"Shit man, I don't want to wait four years to like make my income goals. But then
I put it into perspective and that's the biggest thing I realized about successful
people is they do a really good job about putting things into perspective. So the
way I looked at it was like, "Yes, I don't want to wait four years to make some
money, but what other option do I have? What am I going to go to community
college, graduate with a business administration degree, get make 40 grand a year
and maybe 20 years later get a raised to like 60 or 70 grand a year?" The thought
of that was just a joke to me. And no offense to anybody who went to school and
got a degree, I respect that. I truly know how much work goes into that, I just
wasn't willing to put the work into it because I didn't see the benefit, at least
for what I wanted in my life. So that perspective of like what if it took four
years? Kept me around and that's initially how I got my start in the industry,
man, was through a Facebook posts from a family friend that turned my whole world
upside down, bro.

Igor Kheifets: Interesting. So obviously that Facebook posts was really warm
because you wouldn't be even paid attention to what, you know, someone that you
don't know on Facebook is saying, right? Because you knew these guys and you knew
they were making money and you've had the conversations with them. And I have to
make the distinction because on this show we kind of sell against Facebook if you
will. Facebook is the big enemy over here, being that I'm an email guy. But what's
really fascinating to me is that from the very beginning, from before you found
the industry, you were already moving away from the traditional way of earning an
income. You were already frustrated with the system, you were already frustrated
with what the future was holding for you. In other words, what that post did for
you or would those conversations with those couple of guys at those Sabbath
dinners did for you? They simply reaffirmed the direction where you already wanted
to go. Is that correct?

Julian Sherman: 100%.

Igor Kheifets: Okay, so from there you then decided to build a business with your
time and you were able to put things into perspective as you say. So you basically
had a longterm vision and you were able to see things from a bird's eye view,
rather than getting tied up and instant gratification and saying, "Oh, I'm not
going to wait for years to make $10,000 per month," but rather you said, "Okay, so
this is one option, let me see what other options are out there." And the other
option was, you know, go to college for four years, community college of old
things, go to college four years and you know, try to get a job and what would the
job pay? And the job would pay you even less than that, and the growth will be
even slower. So you make the difficult decision to pursue a completely, a very
risky business where you have no guarantee of success yet you now have this belief
that even if it takes me four years to make $10,000 per month, I will still go at
it because that is the path that I'm choosing as an entrepreneur. What happens

Julian Sherman: After that, I didn't have any money. So I decided that I was gonna
learn the skills, the principles. One thing I've learned is that in this game that
we're in and I'm sure Igor, we had some good conversations about this when I saw
you in person at our live event, but everyone's looking for like that secret, the
strategy, all like what's this new headline that is getting 60 percent conversions
or this color page nowadays is the hottest thing when all that stuff is important.
Mechanics are important and they can definitely help but the thing that I noticed
that all the people who are really in the game who have done this for five years
plus for this type of industry, five years is like 20 years in a traditional
business, but it's the principles. So I decided I'm going to learn the principles,
got into this business and I didn't have a marketing budget, I saw all these
people crushing it with marketing budgets, paid ads. I didn't have an advertising
budget. So the strategy that I decided to learn at the time was basically ranking
YouTube videos for long tail keywords. So I would rank keywords that would get,
like I would make videos. So basically I would go to Google keyword and I would
find like long tail keywords and front of you guys that don't know a long tail
keyword is basically like let's say somebody types in make money online. That's a
key word, right? Ton of competition. But if someone types in like make money
online working from home in Miami, Florida, this zip code, it's still going to
have searches not as much as make money online, so very low competition to rank.
So I would make literally Igor, hundreds of videos probably like sometimes five to
10 of these videos in a day finding these keywords and just making YouTube videos
in my parents' basement were basically like, let's say that keyword. So somebody
would type that in and I would be on a video and be like, "Hey, it's Julian here.
You're probably seeing this video because you're looking for work from home
opportunity in Miami, Florida with this zip code. And let me share something with
you." And I just did that same thing with like hundreds of keywords, and got to
the point where my stuff's started ranking and some of the videos got like
thousands of views. Most of them got like 100 views, so nothing crazy. But started
doing that and once I got to the point where for me too Igor, like it wasn't at
that point. I was so interested in the stuff that I was learning, like the
psychology of marketing where I was like happy to do it, even not making money
like I was just so intrigued by like how cool it is. Like just like target
marketing, like it was like an art to me. And got into that and the thing that
changed for me most was once I had my first experience with paid advertising and I
saw the results that I got in a day from paid advertising, it was like equivalent
to like a month's worth of ranking stuff. So that's when I became addicted to paid
advertising and started really honing in on that skill once I realized how much
more powerful it was and how much quicker I could get results. And I fell in love
with the whole, like you gotta spend money to make money type concept.

Igor Kheifets: Yeah, absolutely. But you start out with free advertising because
that was the correct way for you to start. I mean, for me it was very similar. My
strategy that really worked for me wasn't ranking for long tail keywords, even
though I did do that. I did upload videos on YouTube. I build blogs around product
review keywords, like if there was a product launching called Commission Sniper, I
would build a blog that said Commission Sniper Bonus, Commission Sniper Scam, you
know the classic stuff. So that didn't quite work for me, but what did work as far
as free traffic strategies was product launches and I was able to create products
and have other people promote them in exchange for 100% commission. So I had other
people build me a buyer list, so that was my free strategy but then again, just
like you I've discovered the power of paid ads because I realized there was no
scalability and free. Now, we did touch upon that you recognize that principles
govern success in this industry and that very quickly you learned that the tricks
and the gimmicks and the tactics don't really matter. It's the principles that
matter. So can you walk us through perhaps couple of principles that govern your
business today and that you feel or responsible for at least a substantial part of
your success?

Julian Sherman: Yeah, totally. The biggest shift that I've noticed in the industry
over the last couple of years Igor, is the fact that back in 2012, 2013, even
2014, I would literally like I was selling affiliate products, right? For example,
Ryan Deiss affiliate product. In front me you guys that don't know Ryan Deiss,
he's a big, big marketer, has got a bunch of affiliate products and literally one
of the best ads I ever had was I was selling one of his products it was called
like 'The End of Web Report' or something like that. And the ad that worked best
for me, I literally went to Google and I typed in seductive woman looking at
camera, I grabbed a face shot of a beautiful woman looking at a camera and I
literally I put up a red border around that picture and put it on the right column
as a right column Facebook ad, that worked like crazy. It was crazy and those
types of things worked, the traditional like Eugene Schwartz breakthrough
advertising type psychology worked really, really well. And then I noticed that
over the past few years, anytime I try to do the same thing, usually anywhere your
marketing won't approve stuff like that, you can't show for the most part. And
I've realized that, one thing my mentor told me, he said, "Julian, your income is
directly proportionate to the value that you provide to the marketplace." So once
I made the shift from like I need to make a sale, I need to put an ad up, I got to
get clicks, I got to get conversions to how can I impact, inspire and provide
value for free and not expect anything in return? How can I do that? And when I
started doing that, that's when people would come out of the wood works to work
with me because they're getting such a good experience on the front for free. Like
right now, whenever I do advertising, most of my ads don't have any call to
action, don't say do this. It's literally like some sort of inspiring videos, some
sort of free content, some sort of value. Like maybe I'll do a go live or
something and then just like promote that or just give something for free. Maybe
if I'm working with my email list, I'll send them a survey. Like, "Hey, what do
you want to learn?" You know, just giving. I've noticed that the principles that
work is like, you know, it's like when you go to a new store that opened. The
smart ones, they give you a free sample. Sometimes I go to these stores that open
and they're telling me about their products and I got to buy something, I'm like,
"Give me a sample, I'd never heard of you." Like imagine if he wanted to get a
massage, you were walking by a massage place, but you don't want to commit $100
for an hour massage, but you were walking by and some woman or some man was like,
"Sit down for five minutes, I want you to experience the type of massages that we
do," and you do five minutes there and it's free. There's a big chance that
because your experience was so good, you felt so good, it was free. You didn't
have to commit anything. You could walk out the door right now, but because it
felt so good and it was free and you've got such a good experience, chances are
that you're either going to continue and do an hour massage or you're going to
book an appointment because you got so much value. So I think the biggest
principle is, and give as much as you can without expecting anything in return.
And one thing that I struggled with and I see a lot of my clients struggle with is
if we haven't made money yet, or if you're listening to this and you haven't made
any money yet, or you don't have any substantial results, you might be feeling
like, "Okay, what value can I give to the marketplace? I haven't made money. What
kind of value do I have?" And don't sell yourself short, every single person
listening you have value to give. And if you feel like you don't have value
because my whole life I felt that way, the biggest thing you can do is listen to
people like Igor, listen to podcasts, read books like Thinking Grow Rich, how to
win friends and influence people. Literally you can go, I made a video about this,
you can go on the Apple iTunes podcast app it's free and you can listen to the
best people in every area of life for free talk about exactly what they do, how
they do it, and have conversations with him, so you can get value from other
people. A lot of this stuff, Russell Brunson, one of the best marketers on the
planet, he literally has a podcast were pretty much everyday uploads something
where he's giving value. So you can get value from that and then make a video
would be like, "You know, I was just listening to this podcast. One thing I
learned that really helped me and I want to get your perspective on it, is blah,
blah, blah, blah, blah." You put out that video, you put out free content, all of
a sudden people are going to hate you back. They're like, "Wow, thank you." They
know people are smart now the click baity red border stuff, it doesn't work
anymore. People are smart, so you have to give people an experience they'll never
forget, and then when you offer them something, if they had such a good experience
with you over and over and you offer them something, some sort of program, some
sort of offer, some sort of product or service, there's a much higher likelihood
that they're going to want to buy from you.

Igor Kheifets: Yo. It's Igor. If you're loving the content, hop on over to for more free training and a free transcript of this
episode. Oh, and I really appreciate if you logged into iTunes and rated the show,
it really helps. Thanks. Interesting. Yeah, so what you're talking about is
offering free value. Now, there's a couple of distinctions we absolutely have to
make and that is two particular distinctions. First, we have to define value. We
have to define what people consider to be value with the prospect, with the
potential customer considers to be valued and this is something I want to chat
about in a minute. And we also have to overcome a barrier that I know most people
have about giving value and just share, I don't want to call it a trick, it's more
like a strategy where you basically repurpose other people's content even if you
say that I learned this from such and such from so and so, right? You just take
other people's content and you share it with the marketplace. A lot of people have
a barrier about that, they have a barrier because they don't consider themselves
to be successful enough, or credible enough to go educate people. They think that
they have to succeed first and only then they'll be allowed to share value.

Julian Sherman: Yeah, totally. It's like the whole did you have thing. A lot of
people have the mentality of have, do, be. Once I have it, once I have the money,
then I'll do the stuff people with money have, then I'll be rich. It's like a
lottery mentality. Once I win the lottery ticket, then I'm going to do things that
rich people do, then I'm going to be rich. When it's the complete opposite, it's
be, do, have. You have to be the person that's willing, you have to be the person
that that is the million dollar earner, a six figure earner. You have to up that
way, you have to learn like that person, you have to act that way. Then you start
doing the things that those people do, then you have what those people have. A lot
of people have it backwards, I know I did in my personal life for a long time. I
was like, I have to get the result first, I have to get the results first. That's
a lottery mentality. That never happens. You have to be the result first. You
create it, you become it, then you do the things that people that have those
results would do, then you become it.

Igor Kheifets: The best way I really from my own experience that I kind of
recognize this concept now is you have to become a self-fulfilling prophecy. So
even if you do feel like a fake, when you try to kind of repurpose other people's
content until people and give value to people, you kind of have to accept the fact
that you are success, it just it hasn't happened yet. And by doing so, you will
eventually become a self-fulfilling prophecy. For example, I've had this done even
after it became successful. I've released a new traffic source, there was, you
know, working a little bit better than solo ads at the time. And so what I started
doing is asserted really beating the drum of this being the greatest traffic
source and how it's beating Facebook ads, is beating solo ads, is beating
everything. When it really wasn't yet, but I was working towards making that
happen by creating all kinds of different optimization techniques and software to
help me optimize it further. And so within just a couple of months, I did make it
into a self-fulfilling prophecy where all of a sudden we started seeing optin
rates of 80%. All of a sudden we start seeing people who never made sales report
making sales. It sort of became what I advertised it to be two months prior to it.
In many ways, when you want to become somebody in this industry, when you want to
become an authority, yeah, at first you have to do it having nothing but belief,
with no proof whatsoever. But having just the belief that you will become like
kind of like, like you said, most people do it the opposite way. They're waiting
for the fire to start warming them up before they throw in some wooden into it. It
doesn't work like that. First, you throw into wood and then the fire kind of wash
you off. So from here, I really want to hear your thoughts on what is value, what
are you ... because a lot of people have it really off. So what kind of value do
you give? What is value and how do you create it?

Julian Sherman: So for me, value is something that increases the quality of my
life, and that could be different things that could be, I love life hacks. I feel
like that's some of the most value. Whenever I see a life hack video, like you see
a little tactic on how to do laundry more efficient or fold your shirts. I saw a
video on how to like travel and how you fold your shirts and your suitcase. I
watched to YouTube video, it had like 20 million views and it just made my life so
much easier. So that's a little example and I'd love to get your perspective too,
but for me, value is something that increases the quality of someone's life that
can come in, education, that can come in entertainment. I mean Hollywood is the
highest paid industry on the planet and it's all entertainment, it's all
entertainment. Education is huge, somebody learned something. I'd say it's a very
good question, but overall I'd say anything that increases the quality of
someone's life and anything that gives somebody a win is valued.

Igor Kheifets: Yeah, absolutely. I want to kind of nail it down to be a bit more
specific because again, after having these discussions with so many people, I know
that this is one of the things that people really get confused about. Basically,
when it comes to value, there's really three types of it. It could be either
purely educational or it could be a purely entertainment, or it could be a slight
mix of both which Tai Lopez calls edutainment, or I call it infotainment. It
doesn't matter what you call it, but when you have both education, entertainment
as one resource, that's usually the case. That's the one that works the best. Now,
here's how I define value as far as like the actual strategic definition for a
business, especially if you're promoting affiliate products, online income
opportunities and stuff like that. To me, value has less to do with the content to
be honest, it has less to do with giving tips. Value has more to do with the
emotional buttons that you push when you communicate with the marketplace. So any
form of communication, any form of media, written media, video, media, audio media
like this podcast, any form of media can become value. Now, then the question
becomes, "Okay, so what do I talk about?" That's the big question, what do I talk
about? And so what are you talking about is your market's fears, frustrations,
desires, dreams, goals, your markets, enemies and scapegoats and concerns and
suspicions. That's pretty much it. If you take any piece of content that's not
purely educational ever created in our industry, you'll find that that's exactly
what that piece of content does. Now, ideally when you produce a content piece,
which you do want to have, is you want to have a tie in to a solution and a call
to action. The first 80% of the content piece should be about your prospect, you
should spend the time in the prospect's world by discussing their fears,
frustrations, goals, dreams and so on, and then you create a segue, a transition
into recommending a solution be at your own solution or a product you're
promoting. By saying, okay, if you want to achieve this or if you want to get rid
of this problem or if this is annoying or whatever, you need to check out this
thing. And from there you can transition into either just sending them off to a
website or sell it yourself, just go into your pitch. But that's pretty much when
it comes to content, that's what it is, you're basically selling ideas.

Julian Sherman: That's brilliant because just like you said, at the end of the
day, people make a decision to do something based on two things, either going
towards pleasure or moving away from pain. I see so many people you go and you
probably do too. They stick to the technical, it's like the Samsung, Apple. Apple
did this great. Samsung, they're great, they're all these other competitors, but
they get into like the ... they don't talk about the pain and Apple makes you feel
cool. Apple makes you feel like you're a part of a movement, all these other
companies, it's like, "Oh, we got this camera 7.8 megapixel," or I don't even know
what it's up to now, nobody cares about that.

Igor Kheifets: Yeah, who cares about that? Every time, look, I'm an Apple guy just
like you. I got three MacBooks, four iPads, I've got an iMac. Like I got pretty
much everything, I'm taking notes for this interview right now on a biggest iPad
pro the Dennis gave me as a birthday present. So it's really cool and I just
discovered the Apple Pen, the Apple Pencil like this stuff is seriously cool. Now
here's the thing I don't get, anytime I talked to an Android person, I don't care
if they're a Samsung person or whatever else. There's like a million of these
different kinds of brands. Who cares if your phone is faster, when I slide my
finger with the iPhone, it's so smooth and slick and feel so good. When Android
just feels and looks like shit, who cares?

Julian Sherman: I agree, dude. It's all about experience. What experience is
somebody getting nobody cares about if it's all that be as, nobody cares. There is
a group of people who love that stuff, but it's a very small group. Sorry for all-

Igor Kheifets: Samsung and all the Android companies, they got really good at two
things, they got really good at telling how much better their hardware is compared
to Apple, and they get really good at suing Apple or trying to prevent Apple from
entering certain marketplaces. Everything else, everything else they suck at and
Apple doesn't even try to compete with them on their level, they just create a
whole different conversation. Just like you said, if you have Apple you're cool,
if you have Apple you're advanced.It's like people who drive a Tesla compared to
people who drive a Dodge Challenger, two different markets completely, two
different conversations. If you want to drive a Tesla you're not a moppet,
basically you are somebody who's advanced, you're thinking forward, you're driving
the future. Even though the actual thing drives like a Mazda 3, like it's really,
really bad as far as the way it drives. It's really the interior sucks and I
didn't like the whole experience, but I can appreciate if somebody wants to be a
forward thinking driver, if they consider themselves to be on the cutting-edge, I
see why they would get a Tesla even though it costs, like an S class or even
probably more than S class, which is my preference for a car. So beginning back to
the conversation when it comes to giving value, all you have to do is just
understand exactly what your market is thinking about and once you figure that
out, just talk about that because people love for you to talk to them about things
they already think about and they also appreciate, really appreciate when you
simply reaffirm what they already know. That is why you probably noticed that at
listening to this interview right now that the vibe went up as soon as we start
talking about Apple because Jules, both you and I are Apple guys, right? We
appreciate Apple, we can talk about it. All of a sudden the energy went up because
it just reaffirms what we already believe in.

Julian Sherman: Totally, totally.

Igor Kheifets: So earlier you mentioned that at this point you're just kinda, you
can get on a random sort of value of giving rent or you can just go live or
whatever and you can make things happen. And oftentimes you're also saying that
you may not even included a call to action. Would this makes me want to ask you is
okay, so if you don't make a call to action and if things you do are sort of
random, how would then you make money?

Julian Sherman: So there's a little bit more advanced but a strategy that I've
been using recently is I'm putting out a bunch of value-driven videos. So maybe
even like this podcast I might send it out, you know, because it's free, it's
free, it's free, it's good information. Right now what I'm doing is, I know you
guys are not the biggest fans of Facebook, but it's just one of the strategies I'm
doing where I'm running a boosted post to a lot of just value driven videos and
building an audience of people who engage with that content. And then I'm
retargeting those people with a call to action ads, so that way I kind of become
like a mini celebrity in this small world, which is really cool how it works. But
then my call to action video, instead of just running a call to action video, like
I used to targeting a keyword and just hoping that throwing shit on the wall,
hoping some sticks. Now my call to action videos going out to anybody who like,
shared or viewed my video so that they already know, like, and trust me and they
already got such a good experience for me and that's how I'm a monetizing it. So
it seems like, a lot of people don't want to spend money to put content out there
with no call to action, it makes no sense. But really if you want to make a quick
buck, that might not be the best thing, but if you want to play the long game and
build a loyal following and built kind of like a cult, like following of people
who love your stuff, that's kind of one strategy that I've been playing around

Igor Kheifets: Interesting. So you're engaging. First off, we won't hold it
against you that you're in love with Facebook and that it's all right.

Julian Sherman: I actually hate them. It sucks, like I've been shut down so many
times, but it's always that's what got me into the industry and like even, it's
always been something I've been trying to figure out, but it's definitely nowadays
a pain in the ass to work with. I'm not gonna lie.

Igor Kheifets: It truly is. It truly is and it's getting more expensive, more
competitive, which is something, for all of us to consider. Thankfully, I don't
have that problem anymore and I will keep praising myself for being awesome for
that. I just want to focus on what you said. You said, you're becoming a celebrity
in this small circle. Now, this is something that most people don't realize. One
of the mottos for this show is to make big money with small lists. And a lot of
people think that I make a lot of money because I've listened to the millions, but
I keep surprising them by showing them, "Look, you know, we can produce $100,000
with a list of 5,000 people, because when you have a loyal following, you really
don't need all that. Like you don't need to conquer the entire marketplace to make
six figures or even seven figures." So my question to you is, okay, so if you are
a celebrity in this mini market, how big is that market approximately, roughly? It
doesn't have to be the exact thing, right? But how big of a following do you need
to have in order to be making six figures a month?

Julian Sherman: Well, I would say there's definitely some variables there, I've
always worked with a high ticket product lines where I can make anywhere from one
to five, sometimes up to $10,000 commissions on one single sale. So even if I have
a list with a couple hundred people, even 50 people technically, I mean we have a
lot of clients in our community who don't run a lot of advertising, they have a
list of maybe 500 people, 300 people. But they put out so much good content and
they're working with a product line that can pay them up to $4000, $5000
commission to where they're making six figures with such a small list. So I would
say based on my perspective, if you're working with like a high ticket type
product line, or you're offering something where you can make you know, 1000,
2000, 5000, 10,000 commission, you don't need a big list. You just want to make
sure that you treat that list, you build a relationship with them, you provide
value and you can make six figures with that. If you're working with a product
line that you know only pays the $20 commission or $10 or $100, you might need a
bit of a bigger list because you're gonna need some more volume, if that makes
sense. So to answer your question Igor, you don't need ... I mean it all comes
down to numbers. You have to break down the numbers, but you don't need, if you're
working with high ticket, you don't need a huge list to be able to make good money
because we have people in our community who are making 10 grand a month on two
sales a month, so they don't have a huge list, but they're really cultivating
their relationship with their lists, they're providing value, they're serving them
and that's how they're doing it.

Igor Kheifets: Yeah, absolutely. So there's a few things we can kind of pinpoint
that make for a great income generating business online, if we are operating with
a small crowd. If we're marketing to a very small crowd of say around 1000 people,
500 people, then there's really three elements that we can't live without. First,
we have to have multiple offers in the funnel, right? So we get one person to
commit and then there have to be multiple steps and hopefully those steps increase
in price as they go. In addition, we want to have a recurring element. Recurring
element is really, really helps because just one, two, three, four, five or 10
clients stick into your recurring element alone can provide you with a stable
financial cushion every single month and just maintaining you and keeping you
afloat just with that. And the third thing is of course high ticket, just like you
said, high ticket, just one or two sales a month makes for a really good month. If
all you need to pay your bills is 10 grand a month and that's your dream lifestyle
and you're getting paid $4000 commission per sale, then you just need two and a
half sales per month to make it happen. It's not the end of the world like you can
make two and a half sales per month even if you're not running paid ads, even if
you're not a super duper expert, even if you're not a super duper authority, two
and a half sales a month is definitely possible which basically means that all you
need to produce is like say two or three high ticket clients per month for a year,
and that's 36, maybe 40, 40 clients a year. That's all you need to make six
figures a month.

Julian Sherman: Totally. It's like that saying people lie, numbers don't.
Sometimes you just gotta look into numbers and just like you're saying, "Yeah,
it's two and a half clients a month, if I'm working with this type of product line
I can do this." So yeah, 100%.

Igor Kheifets: Yeah, absolutely. The other thing that people don't quite recognize
what you think is going to be the last tip for today or that's been a really value
packed call, is that it takes pretty much just as much effort with maybe a slight,
slight distinction. From a big point of view, it takes just as much effort to
close a thousand dollars sale as it takes $100 sale. Like the amount of effort,
the actual effort, psychological, physical energetical that it takes to close a
sale virtually doesn't vary after a certain price point. So you might as well
invest your time closing those big deals rather than the smaller ones, right?

Julian Sherman: Yeah. That's brilliant. Somebody told me once, I don't remember
exactly, but they're like, it's the same amount of effort to sell, I don't know, a
bracelet for $200 as it is to sell a ring for $50,000. It's the same amount of
effort. Normally the $50,000 ring, if the person's doing it right, it's actually
easier to sell because you're in such a leverage position. First of all, your
people respect what they paid for and usually with that type of sales funnel,
people are coming into a place to get a wedding ring and it's a lot easier to make
the transition. So just like you're saying, dude, that's brilliant. I agree 100%.
It's just as easy to sell a freaking, or the person told me it's just as easy to
sell a castle as it is to sell a home. It's the same thing.

Igor Kheifets: Yeah, absolutely. All right. Well Jules, thank you so much for
investing the time today and I know you are one of the co-founders of Global
Affiliate Zone. Now, we're not going to go deep into what the global affiliate
zone is, we're just going to say that right now, you guys have 50, six figure
earners and a bunch of five figure earners. The company is experiencing tremendous
success, I've got to attend your event that you've held here in Toronto which was
amazing. Like the vibe, the feedback, the energy of the value, it was all off the
charge. Like I think you made a Tony Robbins event look like-

Julian Sherman: Don't make me blush.

Igor Kheifets: Like a Sunday church gathering. Anyway, my point is that if you're
listening right now and you want to learn more from Jules, from the people he
works with, if you want to learn more about how come his clients and his members
are making that kind of money, because that seems to be very consistent, which is
what I've noticed. Then you want to head out to stands for
Global Affiliate Zone., and checkout what Jules got going on.
It's a platform membership site that teaches you how to become better at promoting
affiliate products, how to brand yourself. And of course you guys are also
teaching people how to run those Facebook ads, which in my opinion is not the best
way to build your business. But hey, if you're in for some Facebook traffic guys,
then knock yourself out. So just head over to So, Jules, any
last words for the List Builders?

Julian Sherman: No, I just want to say, thank you bro, it really is an honor to be
here. I've always respected you ever since I got into the industry, you're one of
the most consistent people I've seen, and anybody listening look at what Igor is
doing, look its consistency, show up, find out what you really want and just go
for it. Go for it, because nowadays we have all the tools and resources to do it.
So I appreciate the time, bro.

Igor Kheifets: My pleasure. And also guys, one big takeaway from this episode is
you need to buy an Apple pencil. This shit is seriously cool. So anyway, this
concludes the episode. Thank you so much. Thank you for tuning into another
episode of the List Building Lifestyle. Jules, thank you very much. And until next
time we'll chat. Have a good one.

Thank you for tuning in to the the List Building Lifestyle. Get access to previous
episodes, the transcript of today's show, and exclusive content at our website at Also, don't forget to claim your free seat at the
traffic workshop I'm conducting this week where I'm showing how I built a list of
four-million-three-hundred-thirty-one-thousand-six-hundred-and-fifty-six email
subscribers without losing money. And how my clients are pulling anywhere from 50
to 500 new leads per day on their list at a profit without any list-building
experience. Just go to to claim your free seat now.

Who Is Igor Kheifets

Igor Kheifets is the 3rd highest-earning super-affiliate in the internet marketing niche.

Igor’s 2-step system has helped him consistently rank as the highest-earning and the highest-converting (measured in commissions earned per click) for industry’s leading vendors including but not limited to Matt Bacak, John Crestani and Anthony Morrison.

Igor boiled down success in affiliate marketing to a set of predictable easy steps anyone can take to generate commissions.


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