How To Double Your Affiliate Sales Using Deadline Funnel With Jack Born

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Hi, my name is Igor Kheifets and this is the List Building Lifestyle, the only podcast
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Igor: Welcome back to another edition of the List Building Lifestyle. There’s
three types of people that will ever hit your sales funnels. The first type is
that once you’ve had at hello. They will buy anything you’re selling and they will
do it fast. The other type are the people that immediately recognize that what
you’re selling is not a good fit for them, either ever or right now. So they will
politely say, “No, thanks.” or maybe send you an angry letter and they will not
buy from you. But then, there’s everyone in between, and those are about 90% of
the people that hit your funnels. The reason they’re not buying is plain and
simple – procrastination. The only way to deal with it is by using the good
old-fashioned scarcity. That is why I’m excited to bring you today’s guest. His
name is Jack Born. He created software that revolutionized the internet marketing
industry. He continues to do so every single day. Jack has created AW Pro Tools, a
software puts AWeber on Steroids. Although he doesn’t own that anymore, he
continues to improve our lives as marketers. Today he’s mostly busy with his
child, DeadlineFuunel.com. It’s a software that allows you to inject real scarcity
into almost any offer, even if you don’t control it. Yes, even if you’re an
affiliate marketer you can inject real scarcity into the offers you’re promoting
and make more money sometimes you can double your conversions if you do it right.
That is exactly what we’re going to be chatting about today. We’re going to be
disclosing how can you as an affiliate inject real scarcity into your offers and
as a result double your conversions. So without further ado, please help me
welcome Jack Born. Thank you so much for being here today.

Jack: It’s great to be here.

Igor: So without further ado, I’d just like to go and get started. The question
that’s on my mind, the question that I’ve been wondering for years now is, “Why do
people rely so much on bullshit scarcity? How come it’s so attractive?”

Jack: Yes, that’s a great question. In my opinion, the reason why people rely on
bullshit scarcity is because first and foremost it’s been proven again, and again,
and again that urgency and scarcity works. It’s one of the most powerful
psychological triggers. It works across different languages, all over the world. I
can’t think of any situation where, if you do it correctly, that scarcity and
urgency will not increase your sales. So the reason why they’re using it at all is
because they know on some level that it works. But why are they using fake
scarcity? Because people who use fake scarcity or fake urgency are taking a very
short-term view of their business. They’re not looking two or three steps down the
road. They’re just thinking about the transaction today. What I truly believe is
that the days of being able to just sell one product and just have one transaction
and have that be a full-fledged business are gone. Certainly, even if someone out
there says, “Well, I’m making it work.” You really should be looking down the road
and thinking about product number two and product number three and developing
trust and authority with your audience. Because one of the most effective ways for
you to grow your business is to have a relationship with people who have bought
from you in the past. So if you understand that and you have that long term view
and you take your business seriously, then using fake scarcity is really just
going to poison that well. For lots of reasons, you don’t want to be lying to
people. But even if you put the moral issues aside and just think about your
business and your growth and you just think of it from what’s going to best serve
you in your business, you want to sell a market with integrity because it’s that
integrity that’s going to help drive that second, third, fourth, fifth
transaction. Because they have a relationship with you. Because they know that if
you say, “Hey, the deal ends today.” that it truly does end today. So I think
people that use fake scarcity are savvy enough to see that urgency works but
they’re not savvy enough to see that they should be treating their business
seriously and treating people with respect and dealing with them honestly. I also
should put an asterisk on this and say, or they see the power of urgency and
scarcity, but they just don’t know how to be able to implement this in a way that
is authentic. Some people have seen will put a countdown timer on their sales
page, and we’ve all seen this where you forget to buy something and then you come
back the next day the tab is still open and the countdown rolls back, it resets,
even though the page says, “Hey, this deal ends tonight.” So people try to do it
in an evergreen fashion because they also are savvy enough to understand the power
of marketing automation. But again, they either don’t know how to do authentic
evergreen urgency, they don’t know that there are options out there, like our
software, or they know and they’re just being too cheap, or they don’t see their
business as an asset the way that they should if they’re taking a long-term view.
That’s my viewpoint on why people use fake scarcity.

Igor: Personally, I think they’re just lazy to go out there and to figure out how
to install these timers and how to use the scarcity properly, it’s a difficult
task. You’ve got to really think this through. And you have to deal with lots and
lots of technology, a challenge, which I believe you kind of stumbled into before
you created Deadline Funnel, when you were working for Perry and you had to
develop this robust timer that would fit into your system. That wasn’t an easy
task to do. So for most people, dealing with scarcity timers, dealing with
scarcity technology, thinking through the entire campaign in terms of scarcity, is
a really difficult thing to do. Now, I do agree with you though. I agree that most
people out there who sell products are honest, that they don’t attempt to scam
people, they don’t try just to make a quick buck. Some do, of course, but most are
good people that just don’t understand how to do it. Now, you mentioned several
times that scarcity works and you and I are in complete agreement about that too,
but the question is why? Why does scarcity work?

Jack: Yes, so I’ve collected a lot of research on studies that have been done. But
I truly believe that it is hard wired into our thinking process. So even when we
know that urgency and scarcity is being used, even when we know, “Okay, there’s a
deadline. I understand why they’re doing that.” it still is a powerful, powerful
motivator to get us to act. So I used to work in direct sales, face-to-face sales,
where you would try to convince someone to buy something and you would either get
a sale, close the prospect, or you would get a rejection. So one of the trademark
sayings in the direct, face-to-face selling business is the delay of the sale is
the death of the sale. In other words, if I’m sitting in your office and we’re
talking about investing in a real estate deal and I’m trying to convince you to do
it, you say, “Man, Jack, this sounds great. I want to go and talk to my business
partner, talk to my wife. I need a week to think about it.” The chances of you
actually pulling the trigger go down tremendously, especially in certain selling
situations. That’s certainly true online. So when you say, “Hey, here’s our deal.
Here’s what we’re offering. Here’s the value that you get when you pay me what I’m
asking. But by the way, you can come back and get it anytime that you want.” Where
is the compelling trigger to get someone to actually do it now? Why would they do
it now? Now, some people resonate so much with your message, your solution solves
such a painful problem for them that they’re going to act now. So I separate
everyone who comes to your website into three categories. So there’s the people
“You had me at hello.” So as soon as they see your solution, “Oh, my gosh.” They
just skip right down to the bottom, click the ‘buy’ button and they’re in. Then
there’s a group of people that no matter what you say or what you do, for right
now it’s not for them. They’re just not interested. But then, there’s everyone
else. And this is where you can increase your conversions. There’s everyone else
who is interested but for whatever reason they’re just not pulling the trigger
right now. A lot of times, it just comes down to human nature, procrastination. So
first and foremost, just to bring us back to, “Why does it work?” First and
foremost, I would say the number one reason why scarcity and deadlines work is
because it forces a decision. It’s saying, “You’re either in or you’re out, and
here’s the deadline.” It forces people to make up their mind rather than
procrastinate. Because making a decision is challenging. A lot of people would
delay making a decision because that’s just their natural set point. So by forcing
them to make a decision, you’re going to increase your sales, period. But there’s
other things involved. So there are some really, really interesting studies, and I
don’t know if we have time to go into all of them, but there’s been some really
interesting studies that people have done way outside of the marketing world that
just indicate that people value when something is being taken away from them. That
pain of loss is much stronger than the desire to gain something. So let me give
you a real life example. So just one study that I really like is that a group of
students, I don’t know exactly how many it was, but let’s say 500 students are in
this big auditorium. Imagine that the auditorium has a left side and a right side,
but they’re all in this auditorium. So one side of the auditorium, the instructor
hands out these coffee mugs and says, “Okay, we’re giving you these coffee mugs,
all of you.” So the entire left side of the auditorium is given a coffee mug.
“They’re yours. Enjoy them. You can do whatever you want with them. But before you
leave, I want to ask you a question. How much would you have to be paid in order
for you to trade that coffee mug? How much would I have to pay you in order to
give up that coffee mug that now is yours? Right that number down.” So then, the
other half of the room, they said, “Now, look. You see the coffee mug over there?
You don’t have a coffee mug. How much would you pay to get a coffee mug?” So what
was really fascinating is that the people who had the coffee mug valued it twice
as much as the people who didn’t have a coffee mug. In other words, once you have
it there’s a psychological effect called ‘the endowment effect’, which means that
as soon as you feel like you have something that’s being taken away, you put a
much higher value on it. So how does that impact what we’re talking about here?
Well, when you’re in my funnel and I’m showing you that, “Hey, right now there’s
these extra bonuses, there’s a nice discount, and there’s an extra special
sweetener to the deal. This is yours right now, you can grab it. But tonight at
midnight this goes away.” So now you have something, or at least if I write my
copy correctly, you feel like you have this opportunity, but the opportunity is
going to be taken away. Well, now you automatically value that opportunity more.
So now, the deadline is forcing you to make a decision and the fact that something
is being taken away, you put a higher value on it. So those are two of the main
reasons why scarcity and urgency work. But I just want to say that I know that it
works because we’ve heard from just thousands of our own clients who tell us how
much it’s improved their results. So without being a better copywriter, without
completely changing your funnel, it’s not like you have to go from the sales page
to webinar. You can use whatever type of funnel you want, but by using urgency and
scarcity in the right way you’re going to see a bump in your conversion. Some
people have a bump of say, 40%, some people have 2x or 3x, really all over the
map, but you are going to see a bump. Igor: In my experience, what I found is that
procrastination is truly the biggest enemy for us marketers. Because I ran this
promotion for traffic deal where I gave a really sweet price on our clicks. I’m
talking like 40% off which is significant. So if we had, let’s just say, ten
people take us on the offer which lasted for three days, we had six of those ten
take us on that offer two hours before the deadline.

Jack: Yes.

Igor: Yes, it’s crazy. They delayed until the very last second, until the very
last minute to act. It blew my mind. That was the first time that I learned that
scarcity is the absolute most critical element, besides of course a no brainer
offer. But it is so critical to having a successful promotion.

Jack: Yes, so I want to bring up two things though. One is that window of time, so
you said two hours, I call the last 12 hours before deadline ‘the perfect
persuasion window’. Because in terms of your revenue per click, your revenue per
visitor, your revenue per email opened, whatever stats you want to measure, that’s
going to be where the numbers are the highest. That’s the true sweet spot. We’ve
seen this with product launches as well, where when you’ve got that anticipation
but that you can’t get it yet, you open the doors and you get a great surge of
sales. Things slow down as you’re going through the product launch lifecycle. But
then, the real fun happens right before you close it down, because there’s all the
people that have been watching, interested, participating, and they’re fascinated
and they love your deal, but it takes that deadline to get them off the fence. So
that’s where you get a real big surge of sales. We’ve seen this time and time
again. I’ve seen it documented on other people’s blogs who are really not talking
about us at all, and they’re not talking about our software, they’re just
documenting how their launch went. They showed time and time again that the last
day is bigger than the first day. But the other thing that you mentioned that I
want to underscore is that you have to have a really killer promotion. In other
words, a deadline and scarcity is not going to revive a product that has no
interest in the market, it’s not resonating with the market. But if you’ve got
something going, if you have something that’s working, if you have an offer that’s
working, adding scarcity and adding urgency, like I said before, is going to give
you a bump.

Igor: Aright. So let me take us into a different direction. So until now we spoke
about controlling the scarcity, inflicting the scarcity, and product launches.
Now, how about affiliate marketing? You’re no stranger to the concept, of course.
You’ve promoted things as an affiliate and thank you for you’ve done really well
in the software space. What about the people that are promoting programs and
offers they don’t necessarily control? How can they inflict scarcity on those?

Jack: Sure. Yes, that’s a great question. So it certainly is easier to control
your funnel if it’s your offer. But I have sold as an affiliate and I’ve also
worked with a lot of other affiliates who are promoting our stuff. So I’ve been on
both sides of that. What I would tell you is two things. So I learned a long time
ago, I forget whose course it was, but it was many, many, many years ago. I took a
course on affiliate marketing from someone who has really, really good results.
One of my big takeaways from that training is that, especially if you’ve made some
sales, you can approach the vendor, the person who controls the offer, you can
say, “Hey, look. I’ve got an idea. I’m really excited about promoting your
product, I’ve made some sales. But I think I could draw even more sales if you
would help me set up a special landing page or a special offer. Here’s what I’ve
got at mind.” So you can work, a lot of times, you can contact a vendor and you
can come up with some sort of promotional deal. I do it for my affiliates all the
time if I believe that there’s a possibility that they can send some good clients
our way. So number one, I’d say you can reach out to the vendor. Now, they’re not
always going to agree, or they’re not always going to respond. But worst that they
can say is no. So it doesn’t cost you anything to try to reach out to them, and at
least approach them and see. Sometimes we will do this even if you haven’t made
any sales yet. It really just depends on the situation and just how good you are
at convincing them. But I would just reach out to the vendor and see if they’d be
willing to set something up. So if you can do that, then you might be able to set
up a special discount or add in a special bonus, put together some sort of special
package and put a special landing page, either on your site or on their site, and
then that way, you can control that offer. The other thing is that, I know that
some people will set up what are called ‘iframes’, where if you’re allowed to, if
the terms of the affiliate arrangement allow you to, then you can iframe the page.
By iframing the page, now you’ve got control over what goes on the page. So for
example, one of the things that you could do is that you can put a floating bar,
like using our technology, you could put a floating bar across the bottom or the
top of that offer and have the countdown timer on that page. So I would feel more
comfortable as an affiliate doing that if there was a way to iframe a page where
that particular page was a special deal. In other words, if they go to the
vendor’s main website, they’re going to see, “Okay, that truly was a special
deal.” So those are some ideas that you could use as an affiliate, or you could
least try.

Igor: Yeah, those are some great ideas. Now, we have to keep in mind that our
listeners are probably not software savvy, so I’d love for us to take a step back
and for you to explain exactly what an iframe is. I don’t want anyone leaving this
call confused.

Jack: Yes, sure. Okay, so I’ll explain what an iframe is. But before I do, I just
want to explain, this is one of the easiest things that you can do online. So that
doesn’t mean that if you’re sort of allergic to technology, you don’t want to get
your hands in any of the code, doesn’t mean that you should go and try to learn
this. But my point is that you could go to Fiverr and for five, ten, fifteen
bucks, you could select, “I want to have this page iframed. Here’s what I want my
URL to be on my website.” So basically, what an iframe is; is that it’s taking
someone else’s page and putting it on your URL by creating a frame, if you think
of it as an invisible window. So they’re on your page, and your page is really
just serving as an invisible window pane that allows the other person’s website to
show. So because it’s completely invisible, no one’s really going to be able to
see it. So the neat thing about it is that because it’s on your domain, so if your
domain is, I’ll just use my website, so if I was doing this and so I’ve got
JackBorn.com, and so if I created a page like JackBorn.com/SuperOffer, I could
have someone else’s URL showing underneath it, the actual page. I could have their
page, so I don’t have to create any design or anything. My URL is just an
invisible window pane that shows theirs behind it, so it looks like their page is
mine. My page is their page. So is that clear?

Igor: Yes, absolutely. And we used iframes a long time ago. I think it was five or
six years ago when I was working with Jayson Benoit, the founder of Quality Quick
Control. We used iframes to really boost our earnings with CPA offers. That’s a
pretty neat technique. Guys, I know it sounds complicated, but it’s really not. If
you go to UpWork.com or Fiverr.com and you just search for a keyword ‘iframe’,
you’ll find people who can do that for you for less, like Jack said, less than 20
bucks. It’s really just five minutes of actual work for somebody who understands
code. But what it helps you do is it helps you create genuine scarcity for your
offers. You can install timers on pages you don’t necessarily control. By doing
so, you will increase your conversions. The difference can be staggering. We’re
talking about potential doubling your sales. That’s massive. That’s massive, and
you should invest time to investigate how you do that. If you don’t want to do the
iframe option, try the first approach Jack suggested, which is approach the vendor
and try to negotiate a deal. Of course, you’ll have to come across as somebody
who’s serious, because vendor will not invest their time and effort into setting
up a custom deal for somebody who can’t produce some sales for them. So you have
to keep that in mind. Now Jack, I think we’re pretty much done. The only thing we
have not discussed yet is the Deadline Funnel. So not sure if my listeners know or
not, but you’ve created pretty much the best deadline/slash scarcity software,
countdown timer software out there right now. It is getting so much praise by
every single guru out, like Perry Marshall raves about it. So can you walk us
through how Deadline Funnel is different from all the other skits you saw
throughout there.

Jack: Sure, so the way that it came to be was that many years ago I knew the power
of urgency and scarcity but I didn’t want to take a shortcut, I didn’t want to
just put a timer on a page. What I wanted, first and foremost was I wanted an
ability to put countdown timers on multiple pages. A lot of my funnels have
multiple pages. There’s the ‘thank you’ page, the sales page, some video pages,
the order page. So I thought, “I think it would be more powerful if we could have
a countdown timers at least on multiple pages, if not all of them at least several
of those pages that we could remind people, ‘Hey, this deal is ending.'” But the
other thing is that something that I use in all of my marketing are follow-up
emails. So I wanted to have the ability to set it up where number one, I could put
details in the person’s email, even though the deadline would be set to people as
they come through, so when it comes on a Monday, their deadline is different than
the person who comes in on Tuesday, Wednesday, etc. Everyone gets their own
specific deadline. But I wanted to have their actual deadline date and time in the
email somehow and there wasn’t anything around to do that. Then the third thing
that I wanted was the ability, if someone was already on my list, to use things
like a trigger, like if they got a tag applied to them or if they clicked a link
or visited sales page or they got moved into a sequence, whatever I wanted, I
wanted that to be able to start the tracking so that I could send out a sequence
of emails, so that no matter when they clicked, even if they didn’t open their
first email the day that it was sent out and do what I wanted them to do, even if
they waited until the last day to start interacting with the promotion, I wanted
the emails and the pages and the countdown timers to be all synchronized. That
just didn’t exist. So I looked everywhere, it didn’t exist. So I thought, “Okay.
Well, I’ve got coding chops. I’ll go ahead and create this.” So I initially
created it for myself, but then realized other people might have this need too. So
that’s how Deadline Funnel was born. From there, we’ve innovated more, and more,
and more. So the core three things that I really needed were the foundation, but
then we realized the importance of things like being able to have accurate
countdown timers for people on different devices, because over half of emails are
being read on mobile devices. So you want to make sure that if someone is reading
your last email at the coffee shop and they are on a totally different Wi-Fi
network and this is the first time that they’re reading your emails on their
iPhone, when they click through and your email says today is the last day. You
want to make sure that your countdown timer reflects that, it doesn’t reset. So
how do you track them from laptop to desktop to iPhone? So these are the things
that we have figured out and our software also puts the countdown timers in the
emails. But the real core of it, I think I got off track, I want to bring it back
to the core reason why Deadline Funnel is loved by so many marketers. Number one,
it just flat out increases their conversions. But the way it does it is by
automating deadlines in people’s evergreen funnels in a way that is 100%
authentic. Now, if anyone out there is thinking, “Okay. Well Jack, how can it be
automated? How can every person coming through get assigned their own deadline and
it be authentic? How can that be? It’s contradictory.” But it’s not. Because I
truly believe, and I want everyone to believe, that if your marketing says, “The
deadline ends on a certain date and time and your technology of your funnel in the
systems that you’re using enforces that, then you’re not lying. They can’t go get
that deal. So automation is smart. We use marketing automation in as many aspects
of our business as we can, from our emails to our sales pages, to our webinars.
You use marketing automation any time that you can. The key thing is that you want
to make sure that when your emails and your sales pages and your videos say,
“Tonight’s the deadline.” that’s got to be the deadline, or else you’re really
shooting yourself in the foot. You’re really throwing away your integrity and your
ability to make the second and third sale. So anyways, that is what our software
does, is it provides automated, authentic, evergreen urgency so that you can set
up automated, evergreen funnels, get the maximum amount of conversion that you
can, no matter how your funnel is designed, and be able to sleep well at night
knowing that your systems are telling the truth.

Igor: Well, the other thing I love about your software is the fact that you can
integrate it with everything. Because in my business, I use like 17 or 20
different programs and services and in-between those it’s really hard to create
synchronicity. So what your software’s able to do, Deadline Funnel, it can connect
between say AWeber and Click Funnels and this and that. So you kind of create this
whole, this feeling of wholeness across all your pages, all your emails, all your
funnels, all your videos and everything else. So I really appreciate that about
it. So guys, if you’d like to check out Deadline Funnel, which is the software
that creates evergreen scarcity, genuine evergreen scarcity for each one of your
visitors, then go ahead to DeadlineFunnel.com and sign up for a free trial. So not
only it’s a really awesome saw-through, but also you can use it for free for a
while. So go ahead, sign up, grab a free account, and from what I’m hearing,
although I did not have the pleasure to actually test this out, but from what I’m
hearing, Jack has an incredible, incredible support. Sometimes he would even get
with you on the phone about a technical issue because he really cares about the
product. Again, so I hear. So if you’re somebody who struggles with technology,
don’t worry. Jack’s support team will assist you. Actually, you have my word.
[laughter]

Jack: Yes, yes. So I want to talk to that for just a second. So there’s a lot of
software companies out there that frankly are bigger than we are. But it really
drives me bananas, because I use other software too, it drives me bananas when
someone has a live chat and it’s in the middle of what we consider the U.S.
workday. Then you type into the chat and it says, “Hey, no one’s available. We’ll
reply back in a bit.” We’re responding Monday through Friday, I’d say 6AM to 5 or
6PM Eastern Time. So during that window, you’re chatting with members of my team,
oftentimes me. I’ll chime in. We also do free on-boarding calls. So when you sign
up, the first thing that you see is a message from me saying, “Hey, if you’d like
to set up a free on-boarding call, go ahead and click the link to add it to your
to your calendar and we’ll get on the phone with you and just really try to answer
any questions that you have and make sure that you get it set-up.” There’s not too
many companies that do that, but we really want to make sure that we can answer
whatever questions that you have. Because we believe that if we help you get it up
and running, that you’re going to be a client for a really long time. So we
invested that extra time and energy to really provide that over-the-top support.

Igor: There you have it, folks. So go to DeadlineFunnel.com to learn more. So
Jack, thank you so much for taking the time to sit down with me today. And until
next time we chat, have a good one.

Thank you for listening to The List Building Lifestyle Show, make sure to
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This is Igor Kheifets until next time we talk, have a good one.

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