How To Profit From Your Unsubscribes

Unsubscribes are the Boogeyman of email marketing.

They’re the reason marketers refuse to mail their lists hard.

They’re afraid to push people off their list, because that’s, of course, is a bad thing, right?


Unsubscribes is one of the best thing that can happen to you.


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Hi, my name is Igor Kheifets and this is the List Building Lifestyle, the only podcast
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Jonathan: That's it I unsubscribe from this podcast. I don't want to hear from you
anymore Igor.

Igor: Well, you made the right choice. Have a good day.

Jonathan: [Laughter] End of episode. Drop the mic.

Igor: End of. Yeah, that's how you handle the non-subscribe. If somebody wants to
leave, if somebody wants to just drop you or whatever you know you let them. You
never chase an unsubscribe. In fact, here is what I'll tell you about
unsubscribes. Unsubscribes are sort of like the boogey men of email marketing.
Because, you know everybody is afraid of them and it's the reason marketers refuse
to mail their lists hard. And, I talk like I really mean the marketers of all
kinds. I was doing an affiliate promotion with somebody, a really experienced
marketer, he commands gigantic lists. And I love this guy, I genuinely respect
him. Okay, and I treat him, and I see him as an equal. Because, I mean he makes
just as much money as I do. But, he refuses to email his lists every day and
refuses to pitch in every email precisely because of that reason. Because he is
afraid of unsubscribes. And, I'm telling him dude you'd be doubling your income if
you emailed every day. But, it's impossible to convince him. Because he is not
willing to give it a shot. Now I'll keep working at it okay, I'll keep working at
it but that is a big problem. What I see in him is the general issue with the rest
of the people trying to make money online. They're afraid to email, they're afraid
of the unsubscribes. And that's the wrong thing to do. Because, unsubscribes in
spite of what people think there are good thing, they're actually a good thing.
First of it means that you have live people in your list. Like these people
actually read the emails and make a decision to stop hearing from you which means
other people read the emails and decide to keep reading which are the people that
are going to be more likely to become customers down the road. Now you shouldn't
be afraid to upset your list. You honestly shouldn't. You shouldn't be afraid of
indifference that's a bad part. That's really the thing that kills your business.
It's the indifference. The first list I've built for my blog was about 1000 people
big. And I mailed it maybe once a month. But, not even that I don't think. And
when I finally got around to email it like aggressively like several days in a row
what I've got was 3 clicks and 5 unsubscribes. From a 1000 people that was I got.
It's like my emails didn't even matter to them. They didn't even acknowledge them
and that's really the worst thing that can happen to you as an email marketer.
It's not the unsubscribes. It's the indifference, it's them not hearing your voice
at all, them not responding to that voice at all. That is the is the challenge,
that is the most dangerous thing of them all for you as an email marketer. So, I
really want to like shift the perception of what unsubscribe - unsubscribe rates
are. You know there not telling you that your list is bad, there not telling you
that your mailing too often. In fact, there is so many reasons why people
unsubscribe. Getting too many emails is down on that list. There is things like
forgetting they may have forgotten about you. I mean it actually happens more
often than you think. They may have purchased a solution from somebody else and
it's no longer relevant. There is a bunch of reasons okay and you should Google
that. Just go in and find 10 reasons why and type in 10 reasons why people
unsubscribe and you will find a study by MailChimp and it will show that getting
too many emails while it may be one of the reasons it's only 1 out of 10 reasons
why people leave your list. Now to me okay unsubscribes are a good thing. Because,
for every hater on my list there is a convert. And any time I push an unbeliever
off the wagon I win a new customer or even more than one. Now what is like how to
treat unsubscribes you may wonder what is the unsubscribe spike mean to me? It
means I pushed on the right buttons because, for me and I don't know what it is
for you, Jonathan or anybody else. But for me the emails that get the most
unsubscribes usually get the most opens and the most clicks and deliver the most
cash flow and the most sells for me. So even though I'm alienating more people it
means I am selling to more people as well. You know unsubscribes remind me of this
belief system regarding refund rates. There is I think there's a rule that says
unless you're getting 20 percent refund rates you're not selling it hard enough.
Because, there is always the argument like am I pushing hard enough, is there room
for more. So, unsubscribes are the same way. I'm not saying you should be getting
a 50 percent on subscribe rate any time you email. Not at all you definitely have
a problem if that happens. But, I have never see it happen. But unless you're
getting unsubscribes every single time you email you're not emailing hard enough
or whatever your mailing is not controversial enough to make people care. Now it
does it mean you should deliberately not try and email some people on your list,
that you intentionally get them to unsubscribe, that you intentionally push them
off sort off. I mean I am fine with unsubscribes and if I see the opportunity like
if I recognize a group of people that I don't want to have on my list I will write
an email that is strategically mean to them to push them off like I have done with
this one group of people that were full of this guru that I had a fall out with.
So, he sent about 400 people my way and I knew they were reading my emails and
they were the most difficult people to deal with. They had the highest refund
rates. They were actually submitting ridiculous complaints and they were never
buying more than 200 clicks. So, that's like the worst customer I can you know I
can think of so what I had done was sent out a series of three emails where I was
strategically making fun of them. The unsubscribe rate was ridiculous. But guess
what that has done for me. The people who did not fit into that group they were
cheering. I mean that was the most incredible thing that happened for them because
they see me get into this fight with the people that were so different to them
which meant to them that they were the right type of people to stay. So, very
quickly they identified themselves as allies with me and guess what that done to
my sales. My sales went up.

Jonathan: Igor I have to push back here because I think it's easy for you to say
don't worry about the unsubscribes and you'll get more sales. Because you've got
leads coming in every single day by the hundreds, by the thousands, but maybe the
List Builders don't have that. Should they be worried about those unsubscribes,
that they only have a list of 100, 500, 1000 people?

Igor: Well, that is a great question I mean 10 people unsubscribing from your list
when your list is only 100 people big of course that hurts more than if you set
1000 or 10,000 people. But, no they shouldn't care, like if you email your list
and 10 percent of the people on it unsubscribed, it probably means that you're not
getting the leads in the right sources, or you're not framing them correctly. I'm
not saying like you should tell people they could make money for free without
spending money and then emailing the something making them you know buy a course
or whatever and create this disconnect. That's not the right way to market. What I
mean is you continuously frame your marketing a certain way to drive everybody
else off. Now to better explain this think about it this way conversation right we
use it as a marketing term. Right? Conversion to us is somebody who converts from
prospect to buyer, from cold visitor to an opt in. That's what conversation means
to us but in the dictionary if you look it up conversation is a religious term.
It's not a marketing term it's a term that refers to one's religion. To convert a
prospect into a believer you clearly must draw a line between who you can and who
you can't help and then you have to make them choose who they are and which group
they subscribe to. Right? This means that you have to present them with an
opportunity to choose exile. And that's okay because then you focus on your
backers there going to become the backbone your tribe and that tribe is what's
going to make you rich.

Jonathan: Yeah, your gonna draw those people in closer, you're gonna be the one
person they know they can trust, and believe in. I like it.

Igor: Yeah, think about it this way you don't need thousands of people. Like you
only need 50 maybe 100 to make a great living. I mean I am pretty sure Jonathan
that you're making an incredible living and have lots of freedom with less than 50
customers. I mean if you don't mind revealing that information how many customers
do you serve right now on the same level you serve me?

Jonathan: Oh, not many on the level we work with you because I do the co-hosting
but right now we are working on maybe 15, 17 shows something like that.

Igor: See, just 15 shows and you get to spend as much time as you want with Don.
Right? You get to spend time with Cupcake. You just came back from whatever Puerto
Rico? Right?

Jonathan: Right.

Igor: So, you have been out. You've been having a good time. You do real estate
investing. Right? I mean you've got the life set, you've got the kind of life
people actually dream off with less than 20 customers. Now what that tells us is
that as a marketer you shouldn't be desperate believing that you need thousands of
them and that you need to be closing each and every one. No. In fact, you should
focus more on the kind of people you don't want to clearly outline your ideal
customer. By knowing who you don't want to work with you'll automatically attract
the people you want. That is why you know I made my sales staff actually put just
as much effort into learning who we don't want as the people we do want. You
wouldn't believe the kind of effect it had on our sales department. Like the
conversation rates I mean they didn't double or anything but they clearly my sales
people clearly saw who they needed to focus on, who was the ideal target market,
and who was a waste of time. So much headache just disappeared and went out the
window. Sure, we had complained rates go up because we refused more people, but
hey are profits were good. Our peace of mind was good, like we didn't have any
headache, we had less refunds, less trouble, and just so you know, Jonathan, I
don't have thousands of customers I'm serving each and every moment either. My
customer count is about 100 maybe 120. Right. It's not thousands. People think I'm
serving tens of thousands of people at the same time no I am not. Yet, here I am
living the kind of life most people can only dream about. So, don't be desperate
and needy to get customers and don't be afraid of unsubscribes. It's perfectly
fine. Celebrate them because that means you're doing it right.

Jonathon: I think you made a interesting point that we need to circle back to,
highlight, and you guys need to write down, tattoo on your forehead, put above
your desk, so many times when you go into a business setting when your starting
something new, when you're getting things going, we focus so much on our ideal
customer, our avatar, the perfect person to buy our product. Yet we spend zero
time thinking about who we don't want and sometimes that's kind of important
knowing who you don't want so you can polarize them and get them the hell off your

Igor: Yeah, I mean think about it as if you were getting married. Like wouldn't
you I mean people obviously don't put as much thought into marriage either but I
mean when I was ñ you know when I was working on the Dead Sea I was still kind of
daydreaming about my perfect wife. So, I would take a bus it would take about 40
minutes to do like a circle - to circle the town and then go down to the Dead Sea
because it's like 500 meters below sea level. And so, I had a lot of time on my
hands to listen to audios, to write things down in my journal, and so at the time
I was a great believer of love of attraction. So, what I have done is one day I
sat down and decided for the next 30 days I'm going to put as much thought into
understanding and deciding who my ideal mate was, my ideal partner in life, my
ideal girlfriend, my ideal wife. And I sat down and I wrote 100 qualities of the
things I wanted to see in that person, and the things I didn't want to see in that
person. Of course, I put more emphasis in what I wanted because love of attraction
the way it works or the way I was told it works is that it doesn't recognize the
word no, and not, or any negative prefix which meant I had to tell that the
universe whatever you know what I wanted. But it also made me think a lot about
what I didn't want. So, I wrote all these qualities for the next two weeks I was
just writing them down and I think it was about a year later after I hooked up
with Anastasia, we were moving and I found this notebook, eighty things out of a
hundred matched.

Jonathan: Wow!

Igor: Can you believe that, like eighty things matched.

Jonathan: Unbelievable man. Hey, you didn't tell her that right, you didn't tell
her that did you?

Igor: I did. I showed her, no I showed her the list.

Jonathan: [Laughter]

Igor: She was so pleased with it. I mean she was honestly surprised and then it
really pleased her to see. Because, I did put a lot of thought into the kind of
person I want to spend the rest of my life with. Now incidentally most people
don't, most people don't they just get married at the first person they meet
sometimes you know. Does it explain why the divorce rate is kind of high? Well
perhaps. Perhaps. But, my point is that if you want to have a thriving and
profitable business, you don't need too many customers. And it you should get okay
with pushing some people back, especially the kind of people you don't want to
work with.

Jonathan: Good stuff man. Good stuff. We're coming to an end here. Any closing
thoughts for the List Builders?

Igor: Yeah, I highly suggest that you just test this out, test this theory out. Go
and write an email to your list about something controversial that's related to
what you're doing but something controversial. You know so like I have mentioned
Miss Gloria Raft or Mrs. I don't know in the last episode where I was like selling
against her to show you my rules to email marketing. That is controversy so I want
you to go out there and find somebody you don't agree with and speak about you
know just speak your mind to your list. Just rant about it say something
controversial, expect to offend someone, and see how much response you get. Sure,
you'll get the ones that complain but you'll get them anyway. But you also get the
ones that support you and that is going to be incredible. Like the one example I
can give you I remember writing a confession email to my list where you know I was
buying a home for my parents. So, I bought them an apartment here in my hometown
and I was basically saying how scared I was because I was always afraid to sign
the dotted line on the contract. And I went on to bash my friends, well
acquaintances who committed to a mortgage soon after getting there first job and
how stupid that was. Right? So, it's a controversial idea because a lot of people
do that. In fact, a lot of people on my list did that. And I got a ton of positive
feedback about half of it was encouraging me to sign. It was like don't worry I
signed a mortgage on my first home 20 years ago and its paid off and its awesome
and my family has a home. And the other part of it was people talking about either
about how much they regret signing a mortgage. Right? Because know they have to
deal with debt or some people actually responded and said that it's a you know I
don't understand what I am talking about because mortgage is a good debt because
that's what society teaches us and stuff like that. So, I'm sure you subscribe to
that a school of thought which I know understand better much better. You know
since I got my self-educated on that. My point is that I wasn't afraid to express
a controversial idea I knew people would disagree with me and I was fine with
that. And if you want to be a great marketer who makes a great living you should
be fine with that to.

Jonathan: Nice. So, another List Building Lifestyle Show is in the can. Thank you
for tuning in and we will be back in your ear buds next time.

Thank you for listening to The List Building Lifestyle Show, make sure to
subscribe on iTunes or Google Play to never miss an episode because who knows just
one conversion tactic we share on the show might double your list and double your
business. Download the transcript of today’s episode and all future episodes at and don’t forget to claim your complimentary copy
of “The Wealthy List Builder’s Survival Guide” at .
This is Igor Kheifets until next time we talk, have a good one.

This is the

Who Is Igor Kheifets

Igor Kheifets is the 3rd highest-earning super-affiliate in the internet marketing niche.

Igor’s 2-step system has helped him consistently rank as the highest-earning and the highest-converting (measured in commissions earned per click) for industry’s leading vendors including but not limited to Matt Bacak, John Crestani and Anthony Morrison.

Igor boiled down success in affiliate marketing to a set of predictable easy steps anyone can take to generate commissions.


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