How To Instantly Become Interesting & Relevant To Your Prospects

Last week I got on a call with a new friend.

She’s a woman in her thirties and she’s involved with several MLMs.

She asked if I could help with traffic for one of the programs she mentioned.

And I said – probably not and gave her a bunch of reasons why those specific MLMs weren’t a good fit.

Next thing I know…

She launches into a 15 minute presentations to show me why these products are amazing and why I should a) join her in business and b) find a traffic source that works.

You can guess what happened next.

I lost all interest.

Today I’d like to share with you the mistakes she made which made it virtually impossible to “close” me.

Follow these guidelines to make your product and yourself interesting to other people.

Violate my guidelines and forever be ignored by your best prospects.


This program is brought to you by the

Hi, my name is Igor Kheifets and this is the List Building Lifestyle, the only podcast
which delivers cutting edge conversion strategies from the online trenches straight to
your earbuds. Download the transcript of today’s episode and all future episodes at I also invite you to grab a free copy of “The Wealthy
List Builder’s Survival Guide” at and now
once again it’s time to claim your List Building Lifestyle.

Jonathan: Welcome back, Bob and Jane. Here with me is Mr. Igor Kheifets, your
mentor, your ass kicker, your King of List Building. What is up my man?

Igor: Dude, you’re running out of names. Like ass kicker and I mean I’m afraid the
day will come when you’ll have nothing to say but please welcome Igor, just
boring, old Igor.

Jonathan: That’s sad. [laughter]

Igor: [laughter]

Jonathan: I think it’s really, I don't know what’s been going on with this last
set of shows but I feel like you have been kicking ass and taking names and really
trying to motivate people this year to be accountable and take their destiny into
their own hands and so that’s why I called you Chief Ass Kicker.

Igor: Chief Ass Kicker, man. I got so many signs on my door now. It’s like the
Prince of List Building, The Royalty of List Building and the King and the Czar
and so I just got to get a new door. I got to put another door on the wall just to
keep all my signs coming.

Jonathan: You need a bigger castle, man. That’s what it is.

Igor: Yeah, well you know what, yes, I do. Now I will get some real estate advise
from you in one of the next episodes.

Jonathan: Alright man, so what do you have for us today, Igor?

Igor: Well, today I’m going to start with something that you probably heard me say
many times before and that is that most marketers got their marketing backwards.
Here is what I mean, last week we touched upon this concept of why did I go with
copywriting as my primary skill, why did I believe at the time that I started that
copywriting was going to be the one skill that is going to propel me forward more
than anything else. The reason I did was because I recognized that I needed to
learn how to sell and how to connect with people, how to manipulate people to do
what I wanted them to do which is to take out their wallets and swipe their cards
and fill out their PayPal information which again I am really open and honest
about it because at the end of the day that’s what you’re trying to do when you
sell. You try to get somebody to open their wallet and give you their card. If
you’re trying to do something else, you’re in the wrong business. So keeping with
that just continuing with that topic of copywriting, the reason most marketers got
their marketing backwards is because they see most people are so obsessed with
product that they don’t even talk about really matters which is the prospect in
other words, I will give an example. I was speaking to this nice lady a couple
weeks ago and she’s a great lady, she’s a great person, really nice and we are
going to be doing some work with her together. So she brought up this health
opportunity to me because she needed traffic for it. And of course as any one who
is enthusiastic about they are selling, she couldn’t help but try to recruit me
into it or at least sell me on the idea of so well that I will go out of my own
way to get her the traffic she needs. What happened was I noticed that she spoke
100% of the time about her product, how the company is amazing, how they have a
great track record, how they will hand pick the vitamins just for you based on the
tests you do and the assessments that you kind of go through and how this and that
and this and that and this and that. Basically the product is the best thing since
the microwave and since the invention of color TV. Here’s what happens when you do
something like that; here’s what happens when you talk exclusively about your
product: a) you’re freaking boring to the prospect that has a problem he is trying
to solve you are boring; b) you’re appear as if you’re selling and here is the
other side effect of that you start feeling really awkward for talking so much
about your product that you start coming across as if you’re selling when you’re
really not trying sell or push anyone into anything. So this is what exactly
happened with this lady. She said, “I realize I sound like I’m trying to sell you
but I’m not.” I am like I understand. When you do something like that you come
across as if you are. You come across as that pushy salesperson which nobody likes
by the way. Jonathan, we spoke about the one thing not existing but I can assure

Jonathan: Yeah.

Igor: If you want to alienate people, the one thing you can do is just try to sell
them an opportunity that’s guaranteed, you can do that. So people who talk about
their product more than they talk about the prospect are really off and these are
usually the people that try many different traffic sources and don’t succeed with
them. In fact, they are shocked when they can’t even put their foot through the
proverbial door so to speak and get anyone to have a conversation with them in the
first place. Because all of their presentations and content and emails and
everything they all talk about one thing, one thing only which is the product.
What is it? Why is it good for you? Why it’s the best thing since the microwave?

Jonathan: So Igor did you get lucky in figuring out that the copywriting and the
market were the most important things or how did you come to that conclusion.

Igor: Well, I didn’t Jonathan. I guess I did get lucky for following the right
people. Because as you know I struggled for a long time, I struggled for three and
half years to get anything going until I made my first real money so that was
agonizing and painful. So in a way, I got lucky after the three and half year
period. What happened was I started following Frank Kern, I remember clearly Frank
Kern, I remember clearly Frank Kern and Jonathan Budd were the two gurus I was
following at the time and I was also exposed to Abel Pagan and as a result from
being exposed these guys I got exposed to Dan Kennedy and believe it or not the
one thing they all spoke about which was extremely like it just stood out, it
stood out like an Orthodox Jew in a mosque. They all spoke about two things and
that is copywriting or some sort of influence and list building, that’s it. The
two things that all of them spoke about, the two things that showed up in almost
every single recording, video, audio interview, book, any resource, any media they
put out always came down to copywriting and list building no matter how you spin
it that’s the two things that came up with the exception that Abel Pagan spoke a
lot about hiring the right people which to me at the time wasn’t important. It
wasn’t interesting. The things that they mentioned that get you moving, the things
that get you the results at first, the things that get you the full-time income in
your business, there were the things and I guess I got lucky for spotting the
right things.

Jonathan: Yeah, I don't know are people still talking about copywriting and list
building? I feel like you and I got lucky into running into that stuff but are the
newer folks talking about that stuff?

Igor: Well of course, Jonathan because you know what happens. A newbie gets online
and realizes hey I got to be a guru to sell people something so what I’m going to
do is I’m going to do the next best thing in that I’m going to copy all the other
gurus and so if the other gurus are saying that you got to do list building then I
will say you got to do list building even though I’m not doing list building
myself. You know what I mean? So of course there’s people out there talking about
list building and talking about copywriting but very few of them actually practice
it. That’s the interesting part. Very few actually practice these things. It seems
like it’s only the brave who do. It’s only the people that really have the balls
to write copy that write the copy and I really mean what I say. As I say it I
recognize that perhaps 95% of the audience listening to the show ain’t writing
copy for themselves. But I know that there is 5% and among them there are members
of my VIP Club that are and I’m really proud for my boys and girls to be writing
their own emails, to be writing their own copy, to recognize the value of that
skill set but without getting carried away too much into what is wrong with our
industry again, again and again because we do it a lot on this show.

Jonathan: [Laughter]

Igor: You know I just want to pinpoint the one big idea for this episode if you
got to run and you got to wash dishes right now or you got to pick up your kid
from school, don’t talk about your product until the prospect is the one saying
give me the link to buy it until then the one thing you talk about is your
prospect, their fears, their desires, their insecurities, their problems, their
concerns, their experiences, that’s the only thing that matters to the prospect.
You can never be boring to them if you talk about that. If I spend the next 15
minutes talking to you Jonathan about attracting the best clients for a podcasting
business, you will be listening to me; hanging on every word, writing this thing
down, you will even forget to ask questions because that’s so interesting to you.
And if you talk to me about say influence or perhaps about clicks or perhaps about
how you doubled your list building ROI in 24 hours, I’ll be hanging on every word
because I’m just so interested in that stuff. To the same extent, Jonathan if I
was to talk to you about how to automate your business in a way where you can take
three months off, would you listen to me? I mean isn’t that what it’s all about
for you? Right? Just taking off and not working at all.

Jonathan: Yeah. [laughter] Don’t give away my secrets. I don’t want to work, I’m

Igor: Just for the record do not support Jonathan’s lifestyle. Okay, I don’t
understand how the man cannot work so much but you know I know that is of interest
to you and if we were to spend the next hour talking about it, the one person that
would never get bored is you.

Jonathan: Yeah.

Igor: So that is what I’m talking about is basically how people miss that
completely, how marketers all around the world do not understand that if you want
to be interesting to somebody all you have to do is talk about their problems and
what they are going through right now. That’s all. It doesn’t matter if they are
the President of the United States or they are the janitor in the Washington

Jonathan: So Igor, I can’t help but notice you had those three and half years of
struggle and I know that some of the List Builders out there are in the same boat
and I’m wondering if you think those three years of struggle actually helped you
understand your market better by actually being one of them and suffering the
things that they are suffering through now?

Igor: I guess in a way it helped but it also helped because I tried everything
that doesn’t work. For a couple years I went on trying different methods that were
not copywriting, that were not list building, I tried a lot of stuff, Jonathan,
trust me but after figuring out that wait a sec I have to do something different
here, I questioned myself and said, “Look I know I’m following all of these
methods I’m being told to do by the gurus but something ain’t right. What I need
to do is I need to understand what the gurus are doing not what they are saying
and spot commonalities between all the successful guys that were making millions
of dollars.” Which of course at the time wasn’t really difficult to spot because
all the successful guys were making millions of dollars were showing how they were
making millions of dollars. So I chose a couple of gurus that I was following and
I just started specifically for commonalities. I would literally not listen to
what they said, I would just look at their marketing funnels, I would look at
their emails, I would look at their strategy that they were using to attract me,
one of their customers and I wanted to model that. In other words, I went for the
people that I felt the urge to buy from, the people that I was a big fan of and
said okay I obviously am a customer to them, they attracted me and I give them
money with lots of goodwill. So what are they doing to do it to make it happen and
how can I repeat that for myself, how can I model that for myself. That’s what
I’ve done. That’s exactly what I’ve done. I stopped doing what the gurus were
telling me to do instead I modeled their actions. I didn’t build my business off
their words, I modeled their actions. It’s not to say that these guys didn’t teach
all the right things, it’s just that they give you bits and pieces that you can’t
really put together in a system unless you’re already experienced and you got a
bunch of stuff in place. Does that make sense?

Jonathan: Wow. Yeah, wow! It’s challenging because you’re in one sense saying that
these gurus are teaching one thing and doing at total other thing. Oh man, do I
need to follow these people and then I look at you and you actually practice what
you preach and so you’re on the other end of the spectrum there and I feel like
that’s another filter for you to pick who you want to follow is are they doing
what they say they’re doing or are they teaching what they say they are doing and
really are they living the life that you want to live. It’s kind of an interesting
thought there.

Igor: That’s a great point there, man. That’s an amazing point. In fact, here is a
great example of who you do not buy from a marketer that doesn’t use an affiliate
link. Like if there is a guy who teaches you affiliate marketing and he sends you
an email and he recommends a service and he says and oh by the way this is not my
affiliate link. Right?

Jonathan: [Laughter]

Igor: Don’t study affiliate marketing under that guy because he is obviously not a
successful affiliate marketer. The one thing I really loved about what following
Frank Kern back in the day, he would always be so critically honest about using
affiliate links. He would email you and it would be a cool email but then he would
say go buy this and then he would underneath it then he would say, yes that is my
affiliate link. What kind of marketer would I be if didn’t give you my affiliate
link for that service and make money when you buy it. It made the perfect sense.
Same thing with Dan Kennedy, the guy tells you what to do, and then he does it.
Like you subscribe to Dan Kennedy’s newsletter, you get two offers per month, he
will try to opt sell you into the Gold and Platinum and the Titanium and the
whatever. Why because he is a marketer. In fact I enjoy buying from him simply
because I want to go through his funnels whether online or offline in order to
become better at this stuff. I will then model this with my own crew that’s the
point. There are two types of gurus out there, now that I think about it, I never
actually thought about it, Jonathan, until you asked me this question. So one type
of gurus is making money doing something completely different to what they are
saying they are doing and the other type is actually making money teaching what
they do as a second income stream to what they are already doing which is the kind
of gurus you want to follow.

Jonathan: Yeah. That’s a great point. That’s what we saw a lot in real estate back
when I was in that where I think we talked about a few episodes back was where
these guys weren’t making money, they would go up on stage and teach you to do use
social media to get real estate clients, and in fact they were using social media
to get speaking gigs and to get people to pay them for social media but they
weren’t getting any real estate clients which doesn’t make any fricking sense.

Igor: Exactly. Good point. It’s like all of these prosperity coaches. I had this
client reach out and we pitched her some traffic and she said, “Well, you know I
just can’t buy this until I make more money. I can’t buy your traffic to promote
my business. I have to make some money first.” When one of my staff people told me
that I looked into her profile and I found out that in her signature she said she
was “an abundance wealth coach” or something like that.

Jonathan: [Laughter]

Igor: Can you believe that?

Jonathan: I don’t have enough. Wait but I can teach you to be abundant.

Igor: Yes, let me teach you, you pay me and I will then go advertise my business.
What kind bullshit is that? How can you teach somebody abundance if you don’t
abundance yourself? Not that you’re supposed to be rich to teach people how to get
rich but if you’re mindset is a poor state, you’re not broke but you’re just poor
state of mind where you think like a poor person. How can you teach somebody to
get rich? That’s the highest degree of hypocrisy I’ve ever seen.

Jonathan: Yikes.

Igor: Especially when it comes to people claiming to change other peoples’ lives.
Like one thing is politics when they are just hypocrites and they are just liars
because they kind of have to, it comes with the job. But the other thing is that
when you say that you want to change the world and then you hypocritically put
yourself out there as if you can help people when you haven’t helped yourself
first. That is a big no no.

Jonathan: Uh oh we are going to make some enemies on this episode. So what do you
want to say as we are wrapping this up, Igor?

Igor: I want to say that your job is not to sell product, it’s not to push product
on people. Your job is to show people you understand what they are going through.
You try to do that first and they will be the ones demanding to know more about
your product. But if you’re putting the product first nobody will want to talk to

Jonathan: Simple, clean, good advice. Alright thank you, Igor. Thank you, List
Builders. We will be back with you next time.

Thanks for listening to The List Building Lifestyle Show, make sure to subscribe on iTunes
or Google. Play to never miss an episode because who knows just one conversion tactic
we share on the show might double your list and double your business. Download the
transcript of today’s episode and all future episodes at and
don’t forget to claim your complimentary copy of “The Wealthy List Builder’s Survival
Guide” at . This is Igor Kheifets until next time we talk, have a good one.

This is the

Who Is Igor Kheifets

Igor Kheifets is the 3rd highest-earning super-affiliate in the internet marketing niche.

Igor’s 2-step system has helped him consistently rank as the highest-earning and the highest-converting (measured in commissions earned per click) for industry’s leading vendors including but not limited to Matt Bacak, John Crestani and Anthony Morrison.

Igor boiled down success in affiliate marketing to a set of predictable easy steps anyone can take to generate commissions.


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