Hustle Hard, Win Big with Nick Penev 

I’m Igor Kheifets. And this is the list building lifestyle. The podcast for anyone who wants to build a wildly profitable email list working from home. If you’d like to make six figures travel the world and help people improve their lives in the process, this podcast is for you. I also invite you to claim a free copy of my best-selling book, the list building lifestyle Confessions of an email millionaire at igorsbook.com. Get the free book plus $3,000 Bonus packages includes my best capture page templates, email swipe files, and traffic blueprints. Visit www.igorsbook.com for details. And now it’s time to claim your list building lifestyle.

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Welcome back to the list building lifestyle. I’m your host, Igor Kheifets. And today I’m hosting Nick Penev from Bulgaria, a place where I’m hoping to move soon, who’s going to share with us his journey to success from a salesman to an E-commerce superstar, and later on to become one of the major influencers in the E-commerce JV space, which we’ll talk more about in a few. So, Nick, welcome to the list building lifestyle. Thanks, Igor. When are you coming here man,

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you know, I’m hoping in about five, six months or so because I’m just getting some paperwork legalized unauthorized, then then I go to the embassy, then,

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you know, getting all that paperwork and stuff. So, it’s this bureaucracy, you gotta love it. You know, I hear just really dominant over there. Yeah, actually, it’s everywhere he does, but just in time for the summer. So, thanks for inviting me. And now you’re actually I speak on a lot of shows, a lot of podcasts. And you’re probably one of the few that they want, it’s really hard to speak on. And the reason why I did that is because you hit that point where you are a guest. And he’s one of the guys that they read the book and awaken when they apply a lot of the stuff he’s talking about in the book. So, if you know him personally, tell him that he has a cool book. He’s a cool guy. But let me just quickly introduce myself. So as Igor said, I’ve been in E-commerce in sales for a long, long time now. Right now, I run a few companies, a partnership agency, which helps companies to expand for partnerships while paying zero on paid marketing. So, I’m a very cheap guy. I’ve spent a lot of money on paid marketing. So now I teach people how to grow without spending any money for that. I also have a partnership network, I have like 1500 founders in the E commerce space, who I know personally, with the network is totally free. And the goal of this network is actually just to connect people so we can do stuff together and grow together again, without paying anybody anything. And Igor is one of our partners that they’ve met recently.

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We went for another reason. But we’re doing some other stuff. And the last thing that we did is we have a SaaS solution, which helps companies to do practice referrals and introductions. So, imagine instead of waiting for a referral to come from somebody, you kind of request those practically. So that’s what our tower was like now. Yeah. Okay. So, it sounds like you’ve got lots of irons in the fire. It sounds like you’re very connected in the E-commerce space. But you know, you didn’t start there. Just like most of us, we didn’t go to school for E commerce. And you were telling me before we got here, that your first job was actually in sales, and was unique because you were working.

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overnight shifts, basically you were selling stuff, but back where most of your friends were asleep. Yeah, actually, I mean, let me tell you the story. I mean, I finished high school in Bulgaria. And I actually took my senior year in one month, just in case something messed up with my scholarship in the States and they went to the USA. My first day in America was in school on September 11. I went to school and I was watching the twin towers collapse on TV. So that was my first day in school. I went in and changed and so anyways, I mean, that was a long time ago. I finished high school there. I got a scholarship for a university called Fresno Pacific. I went there, I was trying to get my girlfriend to come to camisole , she got her visa refused three times. And I just dropped off school. And they just came back to European Bulgaria without telling my parents, you know, because my father told me if you’re not gonna come back, no, you’re gonna miss this huge opportunity in case you don’t come back. And of course, I didn’t come back. At least he didn’t tell him. But I’m just like that. I mean, I act, and then I think it was actually a good decision because he was married, happily married now. So it was a good call. And that’s

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what happened to venture now. I came back here and I had no education, nothing but I was good at sales. I mean, I’m not gonna go deeper into what I’ve been doing before, but my real job was a sales guy in a company called apers.net.

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which used to be a GoDaddy competitor. I’m sure everybody knows GoDaddy with domain names hosting, resetting domain names and hosting. And the one thing about the company’s founders were Bulgarians, who moved to the states one time ago, they had an office in San Diego. And they also had an office in Sofia, Bulgaria in Sofia, which used to work like the night shift. Now, we can wait four to 4pm to 1pm and 10pm to 7am shift. And we had like 200 people there around my friend in the whole company, 200 of those were sales guys. So that was my first sales job. And I was actually hired to work at and actually volunteered to work from 10pm to 7am. And when I started, I was told that the longest anybody stayed on the job was three weeks. And I did that for five years. And the reason for that is because I’m kind of unique in that usually no people are not happy because actually, they need to change their schedule at work from 10 to seven in the sleep during the day. But the thing with me is, I don’t care about that. I can sleep actually, during the day, during the week. And then when it’s Friday, I can just sleep like a baby during the night. So, I didn’t have any issues with changing brakes. The time was a slip. This is another reason. The second reason is we made a lot of money.

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Igor knows know how stuff is in Eastern Europe. So, 20 years ago, the minimum wage was like probably 200 US dollars. And the second month on the job actually did 2000. After a few months, I was doing quite 5k per month and even more from commission 5000 It’s a lot of money. When you’re like 23 results can you make 5000 is a lot of money period. In fact, when I was visiting Sofia, a few months ago, I went to get a haircut. And it’s funny because I walked into basically a Syrian owned barber shop. And when they saw me, you know, I got this, you know, Russian looking kind of face. Even though in Bulgaria, a lot of people have, you know, this sort of look, but I walked in and they’re like, and I was like, hey, guys, you know, can results you, you know, squeeze me in? And the owner looks at me like that. And he’s like, what are you from? And I was like, I was like, Yeah, I’m not gonna tell him that I’m from like, Israel, that’s not gonna be, you know, smart. So, I was like, Oh, I’m Canadian A. And he’s like, all of a sudden, he’s all smiles. And you know, we’ve got chatting. So anyway, this guy told me, he has actually turned out to be a nice guy. He told me that if you’re making five or 6000 euros, no five or 6000 Lev, which is the local currency, which is roughly about 3000 euros per month in Bulgaria. You can live really, really well. So, if you’re making five to 6000 US Dollars 20 years ago. You’re basically rich. Yeah, let me do another funny story. Because oh my So, wife, she was girlfriend back then and she was working at Bank and it was picking her up. So, once I started making money, I got like a brand-new BMW. And the other guys were taking your boyfriend’s is probably a drug dealer. No, he cannot be driving such cars. Way. He’s such a young guy in that, for example, my father, he was he’s the head engineer for the airport in Sofia. So, the guy still returning Okay, probably his father is doing some corruption stuff. And he probably both his BMWs. So, nobody believed me that this was like a pure sales job. And just doing sales, but I am like that with salesmen. See, the thing with sales is like with more jobs that usually have like a quarter. And the quarter. It equals seven like 1000 US dollars. So, whenever you make like 7000 in sales, you’re getting 10% commission. So, most guys were doing quite 700. And whenever they hit the quota, what they did, they took a vacation. They didn’t do anything. So, this is probably the one thing that I’m kind of different. All the good sales guys are different and are not the best sales guys. Not the best sales guys actually making the most money that are the most persistent. So, one is doing that. So, when everybody stopped selling, actually continued selling, you know, I was not happy to be the first and the best sales guy in the company. I was not happy until I was actually doing two or three times more than the second one. 

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So, each week we’re getting like the charts for the teams who are first and who is second. If I was not first, I would have gone crazy. I was making a sales goal. I was spending like five, six hours on the phone doing quite a few 100 calls. And eventually now I build a huge network of clients. So eventually it got easier and easier. But I never gave up. You know, I always was pushing hard whenever I was happy with what if this for the month, I didn’t stop actually started preparing the juice for the next month. So, whenever the next month kicks in, I already hit some deals going on. And this continues for like five years now.

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My wife had no issues with sleep or making money. Now, I got an apartment I paid for. So, it’s off, you know, by the age of like 26 years, whatever, you know. And so, I have no debt to know since then. This is the only thing that they’ve ever purchased with any mortgage or credit by the way. But I got working, I got working, I found this job because usually, you know, companies don’t pay such a huge commission, but they were making a lot of money from us or they were happy. But eventually, like any fairy tale, or like the real fairy tale, it doesn’t end well. So, what happens now, the company grew out, they got acquired by another company. And what happened is in 2010, just before the World Cup, I remember it very well. They taught us hope. Okay, guys, now, we’re closing the office. I mean, that’s it. So, they didn’t offer it to work remotely or anything, you know. So that’s it. No ideas, guys. So, from doing quite 5k posts per month, I went to zero.

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So, you could probably sell something else. Yeah, exactly. But the thing is, the thing is, no, there are other things that happen. In the meantime, my girlfriend got pregnant. So, I actually got into a car accident at the exact same crossroads. In a matter of like, one week, this was actually the only time in my life where I got into a car accident. The first one was a big one and the car was all messed up. I was okay, but then I found a job, you know, I could jump or the company running quick digital offers affiliate offers for other companies. And at the time of this question everything happened, no, I know, the company, the job was great. But the company was not doing very well, their accounts were getting suspended. And then they decided to actually run their own offers and develop their own products. And I actually started selling those, you know, not just running some videos of reason. And in the meantime, though, I got a call from another company, which offered me a corporate job to represent them in multiple countries. So, they were paying like 2k euro, which was not what it was doing, but it was much better. So, I actually got the offer. But at the same time, I liked what my employer was doing or trying to do. And I said, Okay, you know what, I’m gonna set up an e-commerce business. That’s when I got the idea. Because one of the products that they’re trying to sell was the so-called Acai berry or Acai berry, the magic Brazilian fruit. I’m not sure if you know that. But like, all these vendors have this guy, Dr. Oz, he gets into trouble pushing all this in the state. So, we’re actually one of the first who started selling that. How did this start? Now? I hate to convince my other co-founders to actually join me. You know, I told them, okay, my one of my friends, what do you say to a man? Build me a website? We’re gonna order this stuff from the UK, we found the support, we’re gonna just call it you know, we’re gonna just make it any, like a private label, rather than say here, okay, man, I don’t believe Okay, man. Build me a website. I’m gonna order them with my money. I’m gonna sell them and we’re gonna prove to you that we can do it and he’s okay man do that. I’m gonna co-founders build the website. So, I ordered like, 200 units from the UK.

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We just started running some ads, and we sold out in like, within two days, and the other guys were okay, man. Let’s do that. And then it actually started selling, selling, selling, but everybody’s telling us okay, man, I’ve seen this product in the UK. It’s for 15 Euro dairy, we’re selling it for 50 Euro, what the heck? And I said, Okay, man, we need to change something and we’re going to order our own product. So, our first product was called Acai Verde, which means Acai green because it was like a bill of very good quality. So, we ordered our first product and actually started selling like crazy. But the good thing is that nobody was running Facebook ads like in 2011. So, I was paying one cent per click in some markets. So, we got very early now, the most we ever paid for paid ads was in the Scandinavians, it was like half a euro per click in like Central Europe, Spain, the prebiotics.

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Like in South Africa we paid for like one cent per click, we hit days where we’re doing, like 250 USD, and spent over 200 sales when we’re sending us a product for like 50 Euro. So, tell me you built the list? Yeah, man, I’ll tell you the story. This is my biggest mistake. You know,

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We pulled the list of 500 clients from all over Europe and asked me how many emails that we sent. were to tell you where you were making up to 200 sales per day. Yeah. And you were getting the emails of all these buyers. It asked me how many emails that we send to actually sell to those guys over email marketing. You didn’t send an email didn’t you know I mean, there is. Yeah, I will tell you why. And the reason why we did not sell anything

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is because we’re the first one sold the company where he worked for, at the beginning where he quit. They actually turned into their biggest competitor. And because it was like the Wild Wild West, we didn’t do any brand registry, anything, you know, I made the like a product, we just call it extreme power. So, this is the company of my name. And we rebranded that but that was my first product for muscle building. We started selling on all these markets in Europe. And then guess what, what my ex-employer competitor now, did, they just copied everything and called it extreme gain, and started selling, but there is nothing that we can do, because we didn’t have a brand. The thing is that from the idea stage to start selling, it was taking us like two to three weeks.

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My design team was just building the way the test product page, we do a test campaign, we get sales, I call or message my manufacturer in the UK. And I told Okay, guys, we’re gonna order like 10k units of this product. And in two weeks, we will approximately start selling this. So, to be honest, we executed stuff so quickly that we never had it. Actually, we didn’t have time to actually do this stuff. No, profits were huge. So, we didn’t care that there was no software. So, I mean, we had to build our own like, like, fulfillment software, because the third co-founder was also a senior developer in Google. So, we moved very quickly. We didn’t know anything. But we’re kind of executing everything very quickly. We like new products all the time. Like smoke detectors or like Garcinia Cambogia, raspberry ketone, all the vanity stuff in our top product was actually a male enhancement, know how to be hard, is one case possible. And this was like one of our best sellers, which people keep on ordering still, even though we’re not selling that. And I haven’t tested that. But my co-founder partner told me it is with his wife, and it works very well. So, it was a good product, but we’re actually doing like up to 1000 sales with the product. It’s called omnipotence. But we’re the one issue there is that we were advertising that on, like adult websites. And at a certain point, we got competing for that space with the dating apps. And sayonara guys, I mean, we couldn’t keep up with those guys. So eventually, we stopped actually all the paid ads, but the reason for that is a little different. I mean, of course I mean, you might have some questions because I can talk forever, you know

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why? You just keep going? It’s really interesting. Okay, so, let me tell you what happened. So, everything was going so very well. We started with like, free guys. My wife was actually taking calls to take orders when she was pregnant in the beginning and in the middle like one or two actually grew up to like older European markets without the Western Europe because those guys were already exposed to what we’re selling and we sold on cash on delivery with no credit card. So, we had like all the markets in like Eastern Europe like Central Europe, South Europe, and we hit like 50 employees it in this stage and what happened we’re heavily advertising on like Facebook and Google Ads probably 99% of what we did there and eventually all supplements you know their shady business now, one day now, we got suspended. I spoke with my account manager and Facebook so okay man what’s up man tell us we’re going to change whatever you say so they tell me you need to change this and that no bridge pages no this and all that like okay, man, we’re going to do it as you guys see. So, we built everything three weeks later, well, suspension again, and they said okay, we’re just too dependent on those guys. I mean, we cannot keep on just giving the money now and just rank those guys. And they said, Okay, let’s look for partners, or like affiliates, who are gonna run our offers in we’re gonna we’re gonna just pay them based on the results that they get. And then actually we switched from doing quite almost 100% paid marketing to doing almost zero paid marketing we just get some Google ads for why the company pages for each country so whenever somebody is looking for the brand name, they will find this so we okay man this is great then was found like a lot of like big affiliates, partners, who are actually running our offers now of course, you know, we didn’t do anything we just need to build the landing pages provide pay them you know, of course now with affiliates, I’m sure you know, more than me the result of abuse there you know, even though it’s cash on delivery, no, we had a lot of fake orders we might get people who are actually making fake calls to confirm the orders because the OKAY biggest issue with cash on delivery is that you get paid once you deliver that so if the order is fake, you’re gonna pay they actually the affiliates are gonna pay the logistic company we’re gonna make no money. So eventually now, 

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We start actually going into other directions now with my partner. One of them is setting up another company. We got heavily invested in the crypto industry in 2017. You know, we got some mining machines, so we kind of like

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had the company to be managed by our employees. And eventually, we sold everything in like 2020. The reason for that is also because who I thought of money playing, I would say, oil futures, I was probably a quarter million pretending to be like a trader.

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So, I was actually in a period where I was just OKAY doing dumb stuff. And I know what happens when you get work in the beginning, when you’re early, when it’s easy, you actually start making mistakes now, and one of those mistakes is just thinking that not everything is gonna work out. So, I lost some money with the oil futures, then we actually made some bad investments in crypto, the only good investments were actually buying mining Creek. So, we still have the mind, by the mind there, it’s mining. But the long story short is that now it was a good start, we made a lot of money. We never knew at the time, when we’re at the peak that we can actually sell the company. We weren’t about that when we were actually at the end, which we’re not doing that great at the beginning. So, we kind of want to just sell the company so we can just continue running our other businesses. And then you know, actually, because what I was doing there is actually selling our product for affiliates. So, what I was doing is very different to what I am doing right now. But again, I got to work on my life and know most of the things now I see an opportunity. And they don’t wait a minute, go ahead. Okay, let’s do that. Let’s test that. So, when we were selling the company was using a company called Hello tax for our vat compliance in Europe. In the meantime, I got to get to know the founders, who are also ex ecommerce sellers, actually, they are selling on Amazon. And they told me Okay, Nick, you have a lot of experience managing affiliates and partnerships for your own business. Since you’re setting the company. Can you replicate that for a service provider? Why? Cool, thanks. Can you advise us about partnerships? And I said, Okay, man, why not? I mean, my, my wife told me that I’m getting dumb if I don’t focus on one project, and I’m too young to retire, so let’s do it, guys. Now, tell me what you guys have gotten. Because I’ve been doing this for my own company, I know, for partnership to work, you need to be giving more than you’re getting, you know, if the opposite is not gonna work out. And I just checked the correspondence with their existing partners, and everybody was complaining that the partnership is one sided, they want to get business, they don’t do anything in return. I told them Okay, guys,

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you’re doing it, you know, completely wrong come in, you need to start giving to your partners. And using your partners is a distribution channel, to actually promote your company. And I have this approach with partnerships. Now. I’ve been doing it before, but withheld taxation starting now, whenever I meet somebody, like I met with you, you’re, you know, I just connected with some people who would be a better fit, or you can do some stuff with and there is nothing commercial about that. I connect people with them.

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By doing that, no, I grew the partners very quickly, in some companies actually started asking me a question. Okay, Nick, can you advise us about partnerships as well. And I said, Okay, you just gave me another idea man. And I’m going to set up an agency, which I’m gonna call a partnership agency. And then we’re gonna call the serious partnership a service. So that’s what we’ve been doing for the last few years, we help companies to grow for partnerships by connecting them with partners and teaching them how to monetize the partnership. And on top of that, they also build a Partner Network with like, like 1500 founders, which are mostly in the E commerce space, alright, in the Bizz op. So those guys are either providing a service or they’re helping out ecommerce. So, what we do there, we kind of connect each other, we help each Bizz other for example, somebody needs something, I have a partner who can help that if I don’t know something, or something that somebody needs, and we’ll email like, or maybe like five guys in the hotel room. Hey, guys, do you know somebody, and you’re gonna find the solution. So, we kind of help each other. There is nothing commercial for that. Of course, some people are selling their services to others, but the idea is that we’re kind of helping each other. You know, somebody’s organizing a conference. We recommend people to go and speak or somebody’s doing Co Op there. We recommend people we speak to or somebody has a podcast, I recommend speakers for the podcast and we can do a podcast up, newsletters up so the one of the biggest mistakes that there was I did with my business, never send emails, were actually using it to the max right now. Email swaps, newsletter swaps are one of the main things we did and because they made this mistake So, before. I also built a newsletter with like 20,000 ecommerce seller subscribers, which he has like an open rate of over 60% and the kind of giving value getting and getting all the value in return. So, somebody would say, Okay, this guy’s messed up, why is he helping all these people? Actually, that’s a totally wrong assumption. In Russia, there is a saying, I’m not sure who said that but it was like. Okay, if you want to

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Get something, start giving it to others, you’re gonna get much more in return. So, by helping others, I’m actually doing a favor for everybody first. If I connect to people, both of them are actually benefiting from that because one might be selling for service or might be working for something. So, they kind of benefit from that. And because of connecting them to the value of money through growth, you know, which means they benefit indirectly, because those guys will know that they connected them. So, whenever somebody says, I’m okay, can you recommend somebody for reaching out, they’re gonna say, okay, chat with Nick, he’s gonna know somebody who’s gonna help. And that’s something that any business owner should do. If you’d like to build something, don’t tell yourself, start giving to others, don’t let’s say you meet somebody, think who else would be a good fit for them, don’t just keep it for yourself, try to connect them with somebody else who can benefit from that. And usually, when you do that, it’s like pure psychology is gonna kick in. And people are gonna ask, okay, Nick, what do you want? What can you do differently? Tell them, okay, just connect with somebody who’s doing this and that. So, you can actually grow your business like that, whenever you meet somebody make a connection. And as I’m okay, connect with somebody or else. And by doing that, you have no idea how many opportunities you can create. And one of those connections that they’ve done, we actually found that a company like a SaaS solution, like for companies, or more, have actually their So, company is acquired by that, I actually have a very, very funny case, one guy, I made some ten connections to somebody. And he told me, Nick, two months later, Nick, thanks for introductions, we got acquired by one of the people that you introduced. So, there is nothing commercial. And also, the thing is, some people think that I’m some messed up guy who makes that, I mean, it doesn’t cost me anything to connect people, I win a warm by doing that, and it doesn’t need to be commercial. Because see, we have a thing for that in Bulgaria, let’s first share the work, and then we’re going to share the benefits. So, there is no point of actually dividing the profits or anything we have, whenever we have not done anything, this is the issue with a lot of people. They always plan, they’re worried that they’re not gonna, they’re gonna benefit less than the other guy. If you think like that, we’re never gonna do anything here on the assumption that you’re gonna meet people who have the same open approach with everybody, offer them some stuff, see what they’re gonna do in return. And by doing that, you can actually evaluate who is reliable, who is not, who is open, who is not. And that’s why a lot of the stuff that they do, it’s actually free. The free stuff that we do for the network is a way for me to evaluate who is good for a client, whoever is good. And I like them for a client to invite them. If they don’t like it, I’m not going to invite you to become a client. Because if you’re not willing to do it, I’m doing you a favor. For example, come and speak on my podcast, come and feature, I’m gonna feature in my newsletter, the only thing you need to do is just sign up in the newsletter, and just talk with my founder. So, if you don’t make the effort to sign up for my newsletter, if you don’t make the effort to chat with those guys who might have clients for you, why should they bother working with you? Now, I’m doing you a favor. You’re not even taking the favor. Now. So, these are just some small tricks that you can use for partnerships in Bizz op, just taster like partners by offering them something and see what they’re gonna do in return. Because people have asked if you actually talk too much and do nothing, you know, so you kind of do stuff for people see how they react, and based on what they do, you know, if I let them know, I’m not a religious guy, I don’t even know my back my grandmother baptize me without telling my parents, but, you know, just judge them by their deeds now, like they say, think in the Bible, you know, see what people do not want people say no.

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And Igor, no, you’re not interacting with someone that continues to the worst thing that I know, unfortunately, you can’t continue because we’re almost out of time. So, I’ll consider this to be part one of this conversation, because we have a lot to unpack. I mean, you shared your journey, which in of itself, I think is packed to the brim with lessons, both from your sales job, all the way to starting your business to getting into partnerships to the way you made decisions there. It’s really interesting. And also, your attitude towards joint ventures and your philosophy, I guess, when it comes to getting you know, meeting new people and then cultivating those relationships. There’s a lot to unpack there. And I want to get together for part two. Okay, sure. Sure man. So, guys, stay tuned for part two of the conversation with Nick. We’re going to unpack his journey to success we’re going to unpack what seems like a lucky break in sales, which of course has nothing to do with luck at all. We’ll talk about his attitude towards joint venture partnerships and his system for fostering and growing profitable partnerships.

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As you can tell, a big part of his journey actually has to do with relationships and partnerships. Because in the sales job, you only become very good and very wealthy. If you’re able to connect with people and build those relationships. And just like Nick said, it gets easier, the more you do it, because of the network, you grow up because of the database you grow. And his now I mean, these days, his first business as well as what he’s doing today, it has a lot to do with joint ventures and partnerships, which is, again, a skill, not luck. Also, before we wrap up, I do want to point out that Nick mentioned that one of the biggest mistakes was not mailing that list. So, he was generating, you know, at least 100 leads, maybe sometimes he wanted leads a day buyer leads a day, and they never really promoted anything else to those leads, which was a big mistake, because even though they were making a lot of money, they could probably tripled, maybe, you know, multiply that by five or seven. And that’s just that’s, that’s a lot of Bitcoin mining rigs that they could have purchased later on. So, Nick, thank you for doing part one. We’ll get Part Two going. And I appreciate you openly sharing your journey. You’re a great storyteller. And you actually have something interesting to say, which isn’t exactly what I can say about most podcasts I listened to because a lot of the stuff is just very repetitive and, you know, kind of like take action versus the kind of advice so thank you for what you do and I’ll talk to you in part two.

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Thank you for listening to the list building lifestyle, get access to the previous episodes, transcript of today’s show, as well as other exclusive content at listbuildinglifestyleshow.com. Also remember to claim your free copy of my best-selling book at www.igorsbook.com. It explains how I made millions with list building starting from scratch. Plus, I’ll give you $3,000 worth of free bonuses, including my best landing page templates, email, swipe files, and traffic blueprints. Go to www.igorsbook.com Now to claim your free package