How To Create Exponential Growth With Dean Jackson

Dean Jackson is often referred to as the marketing buddha.

He’s the go-to “marketing guy” for people like Tony Robbins, Joe Polish and Jay Abraham.

He was the first to use what marketers worldwide now refer to as a “squeeze page.”

He’s a co-host of iLoveMarketing and Joy Of Procrastination podcasts.

Dean spills the beans on how he built a passive income business around his dream lifestyle.


Igor Kheifets: I'm Igor Kheifets and this is the List Building Lifestyle, a podcast
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Secure your free seat at Attend this free workshop to discover an easy
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it's time to claim your list building lifestyle.

Welcome back to List Building Lifestyle, special new years episode with your host Igor Kheifets. The timing couldn't be better for today's show because I truly feel like Santa has put me on his good list. You see, we've been blessed to host some amazing people on the show. We've had the best selling authors, we've had eight figure internet marketers, and even a couple of billionaires, but nothing pumps me more than talking direct response marketing with world's smartest direct response marketing minds. And boy, oh boy, am I thrilled to bring out my next guest.

He's often referred to as the marketing Buddha. He's just as passionate about golf as he is about direct response marketing. He's the go-to guy for people like Tony Robbins, Joe Polish, and Jay Abraham, but all of that pretty much just bleaks in comparison to his invention that forever changed the lives of millions of people, myself included. You see, my next guest is the inventor of the squeeze page. Yes, the page that used to get people's e-mail addresses to build your e-mail list. That one. That's the page, and he was the first one to come up with that concept and start building a list of targeted prospects for you to market your product and services to. You know him as the co-host of the I Love Marketing podcast. He is none other than Dean Jackson. Dean, welcome to The List Building Lifestyle.

Dean Jackson: Wow. That's all very exciting. I can't wait to hear what I have to say.

Igor Kheifets: Same for us. Same for us.

Dean Jackson: Yeah.

Igor Kheifets: I had to make sure everybody understands the magnitude of this episode because many of my followers are brand new to marketing. They're still trying to figure it out. They're still trying to build that lifestyle business, which brings me to my first question, because I know you always put your lifestyle first. In fact, in one of the interviews you've done, you've mentioned that you have this way of defining success and then you build your business around it, versus the way most people do it when they sort of build their business and they dream about success or lifestyle they're gonna have one day.

So if you mind, maybe take us through that process because many of our listeners are quite literally zoning in on one purpose in life and that is build a business that they can basically, that can support their lifestyle. So this is probably gonna resonate a lot with our people.

Dean Jackson: Yeah, absolutely. That was my goal. I started out in business before the internet, so being a marketer and learning all the direct response things that required mail and print and all the offline things, when the internet came around, it really was just such a great opportunity to really build a lifestyle business around it. That's really what a lot of people early on were attracted to the internet for, and about 20 years ago I went through a process and started defining success for me. How am I gonna know when I'm being successful? That was the more important question to me and not like most people look at success as this aspirational thing in the future, in the distance, and they're constantly striving towards it, but the idea of pushing the accelerator pedal, looking up ahead, and kind of defining how will I know when I get there? The only time you can experience anything is right now in the present.

So the question that I kept asking was how will I know when I'm being successful? Not when I will be successful. So the exercise that I went through was really filling out this statement in different ways that kind of resonated with me. I encourage everybody to do it is just ask and finish the statement I know I'm being successful when. And for me, I have a list of 10 that I went through and they've become like a guidepost for my life. That everything fit around those things. So I'll give you a few of them.

So for me, my first one is I know I'm being successful when I can wake up every day and say, what would I like to do today? That's a successful day. If you have that kind of time freedom where you can control your schedule, you can control your days, that's a nice lifestyle, a successful lifestyle to me.

The next is that I know I'm being successful when my passive revenue exceeds my lifestyle needs, and so I made the decision early on to lead with revenue and lag with lifestyle. My lifestyle things, material things, or getting-

Igor Kheifets: Which is the opposite of how everyone else does it.

Dean Jackson: Right. Most people, what they do is they get things that require them to then hustle and grind and put pressure on themselves to earn enough money to pay for the things that they're getting. They live above their means or aspirationally they call it. So I just focused on getting and spending my time on building things that would create passive, recurring revenue and so that way when you wake up on the any given day, you know that there's money coming in and it's not, you're never having to say I have to go out and make money to pay the mortgage today. So that's been a really good thing. By focusing on the passive revenue, it gives you that freedom, that time freedom and the space.

My third, and I'll just share this final one with you 'cause you get the whole flavor of it then, that my third one is that I know I'm being successful when I am working on projects I'm excited about and doing my very best work. Now the important thing about that statement and all three of those statements is that they are scalable in that they're I'm going to, it's been 20 years now, and I can tell you with certainty that every single day, those have been the things that are driving me. Those are the things that make me feel alive and successful.

So you feel like you're being successful. I get to wake up and say well what would I like to do today? I've got passive revenue that exceeds my lifestyle needs, I'm working on projects that excite me. I get to do the projects that I really want. I'm still doing, I'm constantly doing new things and doing my very best work and my very best work today is better than my very best work was 20 years ago and the opportunities that I get are bigger today than they were 20 years ago because everything builds on top of it.

Igor Kheifets: This is incredible because for the longest time I've struggled and I think I still to an extent struggle with defining what I consider to be success. I have a couple of things, about four things that are concrete that I've decided on way, way, way, way before I succeeded in what I was doing, but I love how your statements are not really tied to I drive a Ferrari 550 or whatever.

Dean Jackson: That's the thing, none of them are about specific material things or about any acquisition of stuff like that because that's not how I know I'm being successful. But I happen to drive really nice cars and I live in great places and I stay in five start hotels and I travel first class and I do whatever I want, but it doesn't define me being successful.

Igor Kheifets: Yeah, absolutely, and that's truly incredible as well as notice that in your definition of success, you don't stop working all of a sudden.

Dean Jackson: Right. That's the thing is we kind of think about that somebody's life is gonna be just running around, goofing off all day. That's not the point. No real entrepreneur aspires to a life of doing nothing.

Igor Kheifets: Yeah and I tried that. I actually tried that. Once I made my first big paycheck, I went for five days just playing video games.

Dean Jackson: Yeah.

Igor Kheifets: And it was exhausting. I want to do some work now.

Dean Jackson: Right, and that's what's fine. I look at it that I've got the other ones are all sort of about the defining what it is that I really want for my life. I don't know what that values or the context of things makes a difference. So I really love having that as a benchmark because then I can filter every opportunity that I get through all of these things. I have other ones that there's no whiny people in my life or that I wear whatever I want at all times and I can disappear for several months with no affect on my income. I can quit any project at any time. I've got no deadlines or time obligations. All those things are defining what that freedom is, so any opportunities that I'm faced with, I filter through that and say is this taking me closer or further away from that?

Igor Kheifets: Interesting, and you put it in a beautiful phrase. You say I want to live like an artist with a 50K per month trust fund.

Dean Jackson: Yes, that's a great life metaphor, right? The thing is when you look at the what it actually costs to live an amazing life, there's not a lot of what I've learned in a lot of things is to define where the exponential increases in happiness are and where the incremental increases in happiness are, okay?

Igor Kheifets: This is really important for us to touch on and I've heard one of your 10 minute talks over in the 25K group, and you say there's a difference between just increasing your results, going from say making X to making X plus two, versus the multipliers. So we're going from making X to making five X or [inaudible 00:11:55] X. So can you perhaps expand a little bit more about that?

Dean Jackson: Sure. You're talking about it in terms of results. I'm also talking about it in terms of happiness, and so I'll talk about just the happiness first and then I'll share about multipliers, but when I look at it, you realize that there's a exponential increase in utility and happiness. Going from not having the car to having a car is an exponential improvement in your situation. Then going from having a car to having a reliable car, to having a luxury car. A luxury car is sort of incrementally happier than having a car that works, but having a Ferrari or a Rolls Royce, those things are the reward or the exponential happiness level is not. That's not what drives me. I like top end, normal luxury cars. For my personally happiness level.

Igor Kheifets: If you don't mind revealing, if this is not too personal, what do you drive and what have you driven? This is actually pretty fun. I'm a big car guy and I always love those tidbits on Top Gear if you ever watch that. They'll bring out celebrities and they'll be like, so what did you first drive, what did you upgrade to when you became famous? So why don't we do that?

Dean Jackson: So my progression, my first car, my dream car that I always wanted when I grew up was a Porsche 911 and so almost 20 years ago I got my first Porsche 911, which I loved. Then I got another one and then moved into a Mercedes SL550, which I loved and then I have a BMW X5M and I've had three of those the last three vehicles that I've had, which are all, so we're talking about hundred thousand dollar cars, not four hundred thousand dollar cars and for me, that's what I say, that's where my optimal happiness level is.

I saw a documentary about sugar and they talk about these scientists that measure out what they call the bliss point of flavoring where this amount of sugar is the bliss point and then a little bit more is where it starts to get too much. So for me, my bliss point is hundred thousand dollar cars as opposed to four thousand hundred dollar cars.

Igor Kheifets: [crosstalk 00:14:44].

Dean Jackson: Yeah. So that said, on the business side of that, I always look for not incremental improvements, but exponential improvements. Where are the breakthroughs? Going from testing the blue buy button versus the red buy button is gonna be an incremental improvement. You're not gonna have a breakthrough with a color change or a word change, but the way that you make an offer can be an exponential improvement in something, right? That's all I'm looking for at all times is where are the exponential breakthroughs?

Igor Kheifets: Yeah, and this is what we experienced recently in the last couple of months. We've finally, finally, and I've been adamant, I've been so stubborn about it and I regret it so much, my mentor Tom [inaudible 00:15:36] was telling me, dude, you've got to develop a webinar. I'm like no, we're doing perfectly fine with having an application process and a sales person. He's like no, but you have to do a webinar. So eventually we did a webinar, we created one, and just having a webinar in and of itself became an exponential for us.

Now, from there, we created the webinar offer and it wasn't working as well as I hoped it would. So then we changed the offer completely. We sold the same thing but we positioned it so differently that it didn't seem like the same thing. All of a sudden the webinar went to start converting at 10, 12, sometimes 15% and that also became an increment. So now that was two incremental, sorry, exponential increases in a span of just three months and of course obviously the bottom line grew and the business started evolving. All of a sudden we needed to serve more customers, so we're now experiencing challenges with the staffing. It was just a bunch of things and it happened so fast.

Dean Jackson: Mm-hmm (affirmative). That's what can happen, exactly. 'Cause then one thing opens up other opportunities.

Igor Kheifets: Yeah, exactly. Exactly, and this is something I also noticed about media. So for example, when I started this podcast two years ago, same thing happened. All of a sudden my name started appearing places. All of a sudden I started connecting with people on a different level. It was because I owned a media. So people just don't realize how quickly they can create different results if they're just willing to step outside their comfort zone.

Dean Jackson: That's it.

Igor Kheifets: Now there's another thing, another quote that I wrote down here. You say that the biggest misconception about marketing is that people think that it's all about you getting yourself out there, and this is really big for the industry that I operate and which is the internet marketing space because that's what people hear. Put yourself out there, shoot YouTube videos, show people you're a real person and yada, yada, yada.

Now you're saying something that's completely different. Perhaps you could share a little bit about that.

Dean Jackson: Part of the thing with direct response, of course, is that it's more important to, it's not about getting your name out here, it's about getting their name in here. It's like that's the thing that's more important that you know who they are than they know who you are initially and that change, I often say to people it's the difference between focusing on getting rich or getting famous. And it's a lot less expensive to get rich than it is to get famous, and so I always encourage people to focus on that first and then to take that money, if they still want to, and spend it to get famous.

Igor Kheifets: Yeah, interesting. Interesting. I never thought about it that way. My goal was always to get rich. From day one. I was very, very fortunate to pick up quite a few of Dan Kennedy's books and courses and Dan Kennedy's all about pragmatic, get rich, direct response, get stuff done sort of philosophy and I'm not sure exactly why, but he resonated with me so much that I take anything he says as gospel.

Dean Jackson: Right.

Igor Kheifets: So that really served me in my business because I bootstrapped just a giant business out of my bedroom and that was great, but I'm also seeing a lot of people say on social media, for example, what they're trying to do is they're trying to become famous to become rich and that's a way more gruesome journey, in my opinion.

Dean Jackson: Yeah, because ultimately if you think about just the bottom line of no matter you're getting famous or whatever, the money has to come from somewhere and the money, in fact, is coming from the exchange of good or services for someone else's money in exchange for a result. That's really what they're buying. And so the better you can get at being able to produce a result for somebody that is a multiple of what they spend for it, that's where your real outcome's gonna come from. Better to be get famous for helping people multiply money. If you really have the goods, if you're really able to produce results for people, that's going to bring fame along with it because people are gonna talk about you and they're gonna share that.

Igor Kheifets: Absolutely. Absolutely. Let me take you back in time. Let's go back to the time where you invented the squeeze page. I really want to hear the story. How did you come up with it? What inspired you to do it? What kind of problem were you facing?

Dean Jackson: Sure, yeah. I love that whole lore. That whole thing. Back in the day when the auto responders were just getting started, people had newsletters and everything was you could have a sign up form on your page where people would leave their e-mail address to join your list and that's what everybody would do is right in the upper right hand corner of their webpage, they would put join my e-mail newsletter, and what I really started observing and testing was that I realized that the most valuable outcome I can have on a website at first, is for somebody to leave their name and their e-mail address because that way, I don't ever care if they came back to the website. I've got now their e-mail address. I can send messages directly to them, and that what I found was the more you focused on just that, meaning getting it all the way down so that the only thing that somebody could do on your page was leave their name and e-mail address to move to the next page, that got the highest response of anything.

If you had your offer for your e-book or your newsletter or whatever it was you were using for people, if you had that on your webpage, people would leave their name and e-mail address, but the majority of them would click all the other things that are available on your website first before they would do that. So the fewer the options that we had, the more people would leave their name and their e-mail address. So the first kind of experiments I did with that were I took what I called the Cosmo Magazine approach where I looked at it as the table of contents of Cosmo and I would put all these things that were inside and I would say instead of click here, it would say free inside and then it would say something else, and then more inside and free inside. There would be five or six things that you could get that looked like the table of contents of what's inside the website and then it would come to get free instant access, leave your name and e-mail address and they would get all of those things, and that got the highers response.

So that became the standard of what I would do for everything now and it really has taken off as being just a standard thing.

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Igor Kheifets: Yeah, absolutely, and it did become a standard. It still is the standard. At least for people who are measuring their response from the traffic they're getting. How, if at all, did it evolve for you in your business?

Dean Jackson: So now it's even simpler. A lot of the things, so I'll run full page ads in Success Magazine, say for my e-mail mastery book and when you go to, you see that the only thing you see is the cover of the book, the title, and the chance to leave your name and your e-mail address to get the book, 'cause that's what I've encouraged them to do in the ad. So I look at it that I'm not trying to convince them to leave their name and their e-mail address. I'm not talking about anything that's going to happen after they leave their name and their e-mail address. I'm not adding any new information on the page. It's just like a placeholder that lets them confirm to them that yeah, you're in the right place.

So they've reading a print ad, they decide I'm going to go and get this book. Then they go to e-mail mastery and instead of adding new information, all it is is yep, you're in the right place, come on in. That page, when I run those ads, we get 68% opt in from cold magazine traffic, leaving their name and their e-mail address.

Igor Kheifets: Yeah, that's insane. We're seeing this online, but when it comes to offline visitors, that's pretty incredible.

Dean Jackson: Yeah. So that, I prefer those really simple things. I've really honed it down that the best converting things that we've got are books and using that landing page that only just offers the book.

Igor Kheifets: Okay, so let's talk a little bit about conversions.

Dean Jackson: Sure.

Igor Kheifets: You've obviously been building lists in the different industries. You've got the, you've got the real estate business and the real estate education business, because you've had your start in real estate cold calling people. So obviously, and I've been telling people for years, I've recorded so many episodes and written so many guides and shot so many tutorials telling my customers look, people don't buy right away, but perhaps it'll help if they hear from somebody that's one of the first people in the world to ever build an e-mail list for the purpose of selling something to the list.

Dean Jackson: Well here's the thing is that the reality is that there's five times at least more money in the long game than the short game. That, as an internet marketing community, an industry, we've sort of fetishized the first 30 days as conversions.

Igor Kheifets: My industry's like 14 days.

Dean Jackson: I know. Exactly. I was talking about, that was being generous with people 'cause that's still really short term. 30 days. You're absolutely right, it's more like the first 14 days that people opt in, they go through this 14 day gauntlet series and hammer, hammer, hammer to buy now, and if they don't buy now, then they're considered-

Igor Kheifets: They're bad.

Dean Jackson: They're bad leads and they just get in the affiliate file and you just hammer them with other people's offers. That's what it is and so that just is like a churn and burn kind of model and a lot of those, sometimes people can scale those because they'll do all these things and trip wires, having things where they try and get their earnings per click up enough that it pays for the ads that you ran to get the opt ins and leave some for a profit, and then just continuing to scale that out. Well, when you look at it, I look at that's an expense based approach to list building and marketing on those.

So what I try and encourage people to do is instead take a capital investment approach to it and realize that the asset that you're buying is the list. The asset is the prospects and so I've based everything that I've done off of a framework that my expectation is that I'm hammertizing or looking at the cost of these people, the multiplier investment over two years and I look at it that when I first started really studying conversion and lead management there was a, I would go deep into academic stuff and industry stuff and enterprise level stuff, and I found a study and a company that does inquiry handling on an enterprise level. Millions of leads a year.

And they would do surveys that would take anything that people have inquired about. Let's say that they would handle for corporations, trade show leads, or somebody goes to the trade show, they scan their name card for information or whatever, they would do the fulfillment and the distribution of those leads and stuff for all kinds of different industries. So they would follow up with people and do something brilliant. They would do these what they called did you buy surveys, and so they would take a swoth of a sample at 90 day increments and they would call you up at 90 days and say hey, Igor, you came to the home show and you inquired about faucets. Have you bought any faucets? Not can we sell you some faucets or do you wanna buy some Kohler faucets? They just want to know did you buy faucets? This is what they're trying to gauge is your actual buying intention.

Igor Kheifets: Interesting.

Dean Jackson: So what they did was in their study, they found that just over half of the people that inquire about anything will buy what it is they've inquired about in the next 18 months. So I like to be conservative, so my construct, I took that and said let's reduce that to 50% and let's extend it to two years. So my expectation is if we have a bundle of 100 leads that come in today, inquiring about anything, whatever it is, that if we tag them and then watch them two years from now, that 50 of them are going to have bought something in that category. So if they inquire about faucets, they're gonna buy faucets, 50 of them.

So that's been my framework. Now what they also found is that of the people who buy, only 15% of them buy in the first 90 days. 85% of the value of a bundle of leads today is 90 days or more away.

Igor Kheifets: Interesting.

Dean Jackson: And so that framework, if you look at it now, that's why-

Igor Kheifets: It didn't change once you measured it. In our business, what we do is we sell advertising leads, traffic, and basically help people build their e-mail list and when we measured it, last year, we actually started tracking specifically what is the average amount, in percentages, buyers that act within the first two weeks or 30 days of working with us or applying to work with us. This is after they've gone through a lot of warm up through our content, through our presentations, downloadable material, and we found that it was only 12%.

Dean Jackson: Okay.

Igor Kheifets: Yes, and then we found that the rest are dragging their feet so to speak and only buy much, much, much later and sometimes we'll get the occasional e-mail because we e-mail twice a day, which is a little bit aggressive that e-mail maybe once a week at best. So we don't often get e-mails from people saying how they've been on our list for eight months, or they've been on our list for two years. A lot of times people apply at the state of being ready to buy now and they say I've been following you for years. So it obviously takes them a long time to finally get to that, psychologically to get to that place to commit to a buying decision.

Dean Jackson: Yeah, it's true and so the asset that you have, if you think about it as we're taking this capital investment approach, the asset that you have is the portfolio of unconverted leads.

Igor Kheifets: Yes.

Dean Jackson: Those e-mail addresses, the bigger the list, the more value it has as it ages.

Igor Kheifets: Yep. This is not a concept people don't get. I'm glad you said as it ages because I notice that the more time people spend on my list, the easier it is for them to transact with me and the more on average they will spend per transaction.

Dean Jackson: Yep. That's right. It's so fun, I do my breaks and blueprint event. The small mastermind events. I do nine of them a year, and it's $5,000 and every event that I do, there's somebody there that it's the first interaction that we've had and they've been in my world or on my list for five years, seven years, whatever, and this is the first time I'm meeting them. It's profound the value of that over time.

Igor Kheifets: Yeah, and it never seems to stop to amaze you. We talk about it as marketers and educators, we try to help other people recognize this idea, but when you meet someone or talk to somebody and they say Dean, I feel like I've known you for years because I've been watching your videos and attending your webinars, you'd be like wow, incredible. It's really cool, and you have another metaphor which hits so well for me, personally, about strawberries.

Dean Jackson: Tell me about that one. Forget this one. Remind me.

Igor Kheifets: Okay, cool. So you were giving this one talk and you were saying, again, about the leads in the context of tapping your biggest asset in non-converted leads. You said that you break them down into clusters of 90 days and that every 90 days, you reconnect, and this is me quoting you, reconnect with the green strawberries who turn red.

Dean Jackson: Oh yes. Right, right exactly. Okay, right, right, right.

Igor Kheifets: And you do it, of course, with one of the most famous things that you do, is the nine word e-mail.

Dean Jackson: Yes, and there's the thing is that that's where the best opportunity is at 90 days to send an e-mail to someone and say hey, Igor, are you still looking for faucets? That's just the simplest thing. Are you still interested in faucets? Are you still looking for a house in Georgetown? We had a great story of a guy, a yacht broker, who sent that nine word e-mail to a list of what they were referring to in their office as dead leads. He sent a nine word e-mail to them, are you still looking for a yacht? And the uncovered a guy who's under contract now for $120,000,000 yacht. And in the mean time, bought a $50,000,000 yacht to tide him over until this yacht will be delivered.

Igor Kheifets: In the meanwhile.

Dean Jackson: Yeah, in the meantime. He needed something for the next three years while they're building his super yacht. So that all from a nine word e-mail to a list of dead leads. So there's value and I always get it's like a magic trick that when people first experiment with a nine word e-mail, it's like surprising to them the number of replies that they get.

Igor Kheifets: Yeah. This is exactly what happened to me. I used a nine word e-mail the first time you talked about it on the I Love Marketing podcast and by the way guys, if you want to find out what the nine word e-mail is, it's actually super simple, but I still want you to go and get it from Dean's site, I think you said it's

Dean Jackson: Yeah, Yep.

Igor Kheifets: Yep, so head on over to right now as you're listening. If you're driving your car, stop your car, put on the blinkers and just go to on your phone, enter the e-mail, get the nine word e-mail. I used the nine word e-mail when I was selling, I called it back then, solo [inaudible 00:37:16] coaching. It was a coaching where I taught people how to build businesses just like mine. Again, the classic Dan Kennedy model. You get good at doing something and then go teach other people how to do it as well.

Dean Jackson: Yes.

Igor Kheifets: So I've had a list of prospects I've generated off of I think it was Facebook ads at the time, and they didn't convert. I think I've had 600 of them and I sent out a nine word e-mail and I got 152 responses. Now what I didn't account for was the fact that I needed to communicate with each and every single one of them personally because a part of the whole strategy is to have a dialog with them, right?

Dean Jackson: Right. That's exactly right.

Igor Kheifets: Yeah, and I wasn't ready for that. So all of a sudden I found myself talking to 152 people at the same time. So guys, this is just to tell you that it's dangerously powerful if you have a list of unconverted prospects, and what's really cool, and this is just me taking it to the technical aspect of it, is that from a delivery standpoint, it will look and feel and just seem as a completely friendly, personalized e-mail to Google, Yahoo, and all the other e-mail service providers, and you will have responses. People actually hit reply and write to you like they would to a friend. The e-mail delivery to that list will automatically go up and you will land in the primary inbox more often because of those responses.

Dean Jackson: That's right, yeah. Absolutely. That's kind of the hidden benefit. That's one of the secrets of it is making that e-mail, treating it like you're only sending one. Like you're only sending it to one person. That's the mindset, that we often have this broadcast voice that when we're sending an e-mail, we're thinking about sending an e-mail to the list broadcasting. The only people, they don't know that they're on a list or that there's other people. Or they don't know whether they're one of 100 or 100,000. They don't have any context for it. You're showing up in their inbox, and if you're showing up as a marketer with a headline on the subject line that you're trying to convince or tease somebody into opening the e-mail, you're gonna look like all the other marketers. I will say to people, your mom has 100% open rate on her e-mails. Because your mom is sending individual e-mail to you.

Igor Kheifets: Yup.

Dean Jackson: So if you look at, this is a really great subject line exercise, actually, is if you look at your inbox and you just scroll through to find the last e-mail that was just for you, what you're gonna find is that those e-mails are very different than the e-mails above and below it. Because your mom and your friends, the marketers are using it as a headline, your mom and your friends, people are sending you individual ones, it's almost like they have a label maker and they're writing using the subject line as the label for how you'll file this e-mail away later so you can find what it's about. So your mom might send an e-mail with the subject line that says dinner, or whatever. Or your friends might send you an e-mail that says movie Friday, or something that's just overtly clear of what's actually inside the e-mail.

Igor Kheifets: Yeah. I have a friend of mine, we bounce ideas back and forth and he now works in The New Offer. Now that I recall, again, just because you kind of pointed it out and I never even thought about it that way, and I do e-mail [inaudible 00:41:19] for a living, and I pride myself for it. The last e-mail he sent me was 10 bullets for The New Offer. I only reviewed them maybe three days later, but I knew exactly what I was looking for. You're right, it was like a label.

Dean Jackson: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Igor Kheifets: This is crazy, this is nuts, and the other thing that really comes to mind is I was interviewing Nate Rifkin, he writes for Agora, and he said something really amazing, which, again until he said it, I didn't recognize that when people check their e-mail, they don't go looking for e-mails to read. They go in looking for e-mails to delete.

Dean Jackson: Mm-hmm (affirmative). I think there's looking for ones that they don't have to read. I think that actually my experience is I don't know that people actually delete e-mails anymore. You just get so many of them, it's so overwhelming and there's no reason to 'cause it's all in the cloud. Everybody keeps every e-mail all the time anyway. So I think what we're really doing, and the reality is we're scrolling. Nobody's going on their desktop to read e-mails anymore. It's all really we're scrolling through our inbox to, on our iPhones or whatever, and so you're just scrolling through to find the ones that are, that you got to read.

Igor Kheifets: Whoa, this is so cool. What you mentioned about treating your list as if it's one person was so profound, too, because a lot of times people come to me and they're like Igor, I don't know what to say in my e-mails, and my answer to them is what if your prospect or your best customer was actually your best friend and you were having coffee, and you were sitting right across the table from them? What would you say then? All of a sudden the penny drops and you're like oh, I would say this, this, and this.

Dean Jackson: That's it. Conversational. That's the whole point, conversational conversion. That's the words that I used for what I practice. Conversational conversion.

Igor Kheifets: Yeah, you use the word dialog a lot and this is what marketing is, isn't it? It's the dialog that happens between you and your best customer in their head, right? As they consume your marketing.

Dean Jackson: Yeah, that's exactly right. But the reality is in e-mail you can actually be in a dialog. That's why when you start, all I wanna look for is see who's willing to engage in a dialog so I'll often ask, I use what I call a spear e-mail. S-P-E-A-R. Short, personal, expecting a reply. That's the magic words that I'm looking for here, right? So I send something to somebody and for six and a half years now, the e-mail that I send periodically to my list to fill these breakthrough blueprints all over the world is the same e-mail. It'll have in the subject line Orlando Mastermind and then it'll say, hey, Igor, I'm getting together with a group next month for a marketing mastermind. We're gonna spend three days going deep in applying the eight profit activators to your business. Would you like to join us? That's it. So it's short, personal, and expecting a reply. I'm asking would you like to join us?

Yo, it's Igor. If you're loving the content, hop on over to for more free training and a free transcript of this
episode. Oh, and I'd really appreciate if you logged into iTunes and rated the
show. It really helps. Thanks.

Igor Kheifets: Now at the end of the interview, Dean was just finalizing the example of having a personal conversation with your prospects and emphasizing the importance of conducting a dialog rather than shouting at your prospects and at your customers with your claims, which is way more effective and as we were closing as well, we started going over some of the things you can do in order to work with Dean as well as learn more from him because he's widely considered to be one of the best direct response marketers in the world.

So I highly urge you to go to where you can download his breakthrough DNA report about the eight profit activators you can trigger in your business right now. I also recommend you subscribe to podcast where you can listen to Dean's podcast as well as where he and Dan Soloman host another podcast. Dean has been on podcasts, as you understand. And I also urge you, when you go to to go ahead and also visit where you can download the amazing nine word e-mail that brings dead leads back to life, okay?

So with that said, thank you again for tuning in to The List Building Lifestyle. Now we're gonna switch to our usual outro. This is Igor Kheifets. I hope you enjoyed this episode. Happy new year and have amazing, an amazing celebration tonight. Caio.

Thank you for tuning in to the the List Building Lifestyle. Get access to previous
episodes, the transcript of today's show, and exclusive content at our website at Also, don't forget to claim your free seat at the
traffic workshop I'm conducting this week where I'm showing how I built a list of
four-million-three-hundred-thirty-one-thousand-six-hundred-and-fifty-six email
subscribers without losing money. And how my clients are pulling anywhere from 50
to 500 new leads per day on their list at a profit without any list-building
experience. Just go to to claim your free seat now.

Who Is Igor Kheifets

Igor Kheifets is the 3rd highest-earning super-affiliate in the internet marketing niche.

Igor’s 2-step system has helped him consistently rank as the highest-earning and the highest-converting (measured in commissions earned per click) for industry’s leading vendors including but not limited to Matt Bacak, John Crestani and Anthony Morrison.

Igor boiled down success in affiliate marketing to a set of predictable easy steps anyone can take to generate commissions.


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