How To Become a Super-Affiliate From Scratch
Andrew Fox has been raking in affiliate commissions since ’99. Since then he became a living version of the “cliche” super-affiliate. He owns 2 Ferraris and a luxury yacht where he conducts private workshops. During the interview Andrew talks about the big mistakes he made along the way and how to get on the fast track to super-affiliate success.
Igor Kheifets: I'm Igor Kheifets and this is the List Building Lifestyle, a podcast
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it's time to claim your list building lifestyle.
Welcome back to another edition of The List Building Lifestyle with your host, Igor Kheifets. This is a show about list building, but the purpose of building a list is all about making money, getting more customers, and the one income stream you can always use, if you have a list, is other people's products. This is called affiliate marketing, in case you don't know, and one of the most fun aspects of running a podcast is that I get interview some of the world's top super affiliates.
My next guest is actually one of the oldest super affiliates there are. In fact, he was promoting products online starting back in 1999, and in spite of this industry having this reputation of lots of people lying about their earnings and lots of people posting screenshots of their bank accounts and photos of their so-called Ferraris that they own and photos of luxury yachts that they don't own, either they rent them or they're just someone else's yacht that they just took a picture of on their sales pages, my next guest actually owns a million dollar yacht and owned two Ferraris and a McLaren, which makes him an actual super affiliate who's living this super affiliate lifestyle, and, of course, it's not the reason why I invited him on the show, but more so he was one of those people whose courses I used to buy, and he was the first ever person that I remember that disclosed one of the biggest secrets to super affiliates' success, which is if you want to make a lot of money as an affiliate, the first thing you need to do is to build your list and, better yet, to build your buyer list because nothing comes close to having a list of people who exchanged money with you, like you, who trust you, and who are willing to do more transactions with you again and again and again.
Please help me welcome one of the world's biggest super affiliates, who's currently dominating both ClickBank and jvzoo.com all at the same time, Mr. Andrew Fox. Andrew, welcome to the show.
Andrew Fox: Hey, hey, hey, hey, my man, Igor. First, thank you so much for inviting me on the show, and that wonderful introduction. It's great to be here.
Igor Kheifets: My pleasure, my pleasure. Trust me. I've been actually ... It's no secret. I'll disclose this. I've been chasing you to get you on the show. It's next to impossible with all the things you got going on, not to say that you don't have a great lifestyle, but with all the products you launched this year alone, with all the events you host. I know you're hosting events on your yacht. Actually, I think that's the ... You're the only person who does that. I've seen all kinds of events. I know that some people even hosted some private workshops on private planes, but I think you're the only Internet marketer in the world who's conducting seminars and workshops on a boat. That puts you in a unique category and truly remarkable, remarkable life you have built for yourself.
This interview's going to be all about helping the list builders, which is the way we address the audience over here to better understand how to become a super affiliates, how to become a person who gets paid to promote other people's products, who gets paid a lot of money to do that, and who gets paid a lot of money to do that from anywhere in the world.
I guess to get us off on the right foot, before we go into strategies and talking about your super cars that you owned, which is I'm personally curious about, what it's like to own a Ferrari and a McLaren, why don't you bring us up to speed about when and how did you get into Internet marketing, as well as what are some of the most embarrassing mistakes that you made getting started?
Andrew Fox: Well, I got involved in Internet marketing, Igor. This is crazy. It was around 1999, the year 2000, and it was one of those things where I was [inaudible 00:04:56] right around 18 years old, and I was a [inaudible 00:05:00] entrepreneur, but I was broke. I was working in a car wash for $5 an hour, and after paying living expenses, while still living with my parents, I really did not have much money, but I had a dream, and I was relentless. I find a guy online called Corey Rudl. He was a great guy. Corey was one of the ... I suppose the first pioneers of Internet marketing. This is before Internet marketing existed. It was like, "Guys, here's how to run an affiliate program, and here's how to manage an email list, and here's how to write a sales letter."
The beginning idea, Igor, I actually, for my Christmas present ... You know how everyone gets the ... I don't know. What do they get? Bikes or something or Amazon gift cards or something now. I asked for these London seminar tapes of an event that Corey did. They were 97 pounds, and I said to my mom and dad, "I want those for Christmas," and they said, "You want marketing tapes?" I, "Oh, yeah, absolutely." On Christmas day, everyone's sitting there eating turkey, and I'm sneaking off into the lounge to watch these video tapes, and I just watch it and I get it. I understand, and I'm like, "Holy crap, Mom, I'm gonna be rich," and I got it. I just understood, and it just clicked.
Since then, obviously, we've had many, many projects. It's been a lot of fun.
Igor Kheifets: Wow, incredible. It's interesting you bring up Corey Rudl. First off, guys, if you don't know, Corey Rudl was one of the biggest influencers for some of today's most notorious Internet marketers, and, unfortunately, he's no longer with us. He passed away a while back, but a lot of, many, many of the guests that I brought on the show and many of the people I consider mentors always bring up Corey and his courses. There's definitely a commonality there that I'm spotting as far as why and how people become successful.
You're saying that even back in the day, back in the year 2000, people were already building lists?
Andrew Fox: Yeah. Email was ... It was the next logical step because, obviously, the communication before would be done by postal mail, offline leaflets, things like that there, and it made sense, Igor, that, well, rather than having to post mail out ... You know it can be expensive cost [inaudible 00:07:17]. I can effectively email someone for ... I wouldn't say for free, but nearly for free. Just pay an autoresponder for a subscription, and I can reach people like that. It was really the next logical step. It's actually accidentally how I fell in the affiliate marketing.
I was always a good communicator with people. I understand how to write emails that would get people to engage with me, to like and trust you, and then buy. I ended up, one of the first products I promoted was a product called Postmaster Online, which was an automation, like an autoresponder with a few extra bells and whistles, as we would call them, and I just promoted this as an affiliate, and it was a $1 trial, and then we billed it $49 or $97 per month, and I ended up making 40 sales off it with about 25 successfully rebilling, and I said, "Holy crap, I just made 25 times $30 to $50 commission, but, Igor, when you're coming up from nothing, and you start making $1,000 a month from promoting someone else's product, it's pretty cool.
Igor Kheifets: Oh, yeah. I know the feeling. It took me way longer. You started back in 2000, right?
Andrew Fox: Yeah.
Igor Kheifets: I started around the same age. I started around 18 or 19 years old, but I only had Internet around 2004 for the first time in my life, and I also had to go through a crazy learning curve, as far as language and computers and selling. I was never great or natural, as they would say, when it comes to communication. I was the opposite. I was very introverted, which I know right now is hard to say. I was really awkward. I couldn't talk to people. It was just really bad.
In writing, well, my writing sucked. If you were to tell me that 10 years from that moment, I'd be one of the highest paid email marketers in the world, I'd be like, "Yeah, right," but, for years, I used to write in my notebook, "I make $100 a day online quickly and easily." That would be my dream. The first day that I made 100 bucks actually was back on the Warrior forum. I still remember exactly how it feels. That feeling was way sweeter than the feeling I get right now when we make 10 grand in a day or 20 or 30 or 60.
Andrew Fox: Oh, yeah. It's a validation. Even as you say, you're one of the highest email writers now, this is the funny thing, Igor. I studied English in school at [inaudible 00:09:48], and I failed. I think I got a ... I can't even remember. I got a B or a U, which is upgradeable, and I went on to write my sales copy, has achieved over seven million dollars in sales in the last three to four years alone. The teachers, obviously, got it wrong maybe.
Igor Kheifets: I actually find that your ability to convert, whether by communicating in print or on digital paper or in person has way, way less to do with your vocabulary or your spelling or your sentence structure than it does with the ideas that you bring to the table and the energy you project when you're putting out that communication, not to mention, as Woody Allen once said, I think he said that half of success is just showing up, and I think if more people just ... Rather than just buying courses about how to do things [inaudible 00:10:42] just did them, even if poorly, they'd still be way more successful than they are right now.
Andrew Fox: As you said, showing up is so important, and mindset is so important, Igor. It really is.
Look, I talk to some people, and they complain, "Oh, I don't have enough money. I don't have this. I don't have that, and their mindset's very lack-oriented, like there's lack of in their life, and then I start pointing out things, like, "Well, do you have a roof over your head? Do you have somewhere to sleep? What's that you're holding? Oh, is that an iPhone? Oh, what's that 55-inch TV on your wall? Oh, did you go to The Weekend?" "Yeah." "Oh, what's ... Do you eat nice food?" "Yeah, yeah, but I need that, but I do that," and I go, "Look, my friend, you actually have ... You have quite a lot that you don't realize."
People have more than they ever had before, but they choose to allocate spending on things that are enjoyable all the time. There's nothing wrong with that, Igor, but if you come to me and say that I have no money or I'm struggling, then I break down, "Well, let's reverse engineer a few things here." Then they say, "Well, I don't wanna buy that online course," and I go, "Why not?" "Well, it's $200," and I go, "Okay." "But what happens if it doesn't work," and I go, "Well, it may not work, but guess what, my friend? See those pair of trainers that you're wearing, those sneakers that are $50 or $100 or a pair of jeans? They're gonna be worth zero, 100% zero, but if you take a chance and you invest, you take a risk in business or you try to find out who are the good people online and you listen and you educate yourself, you may get closer to where you wanna get to, but if you refuse to do that and you don't take any risks, well, how can you expect to get anywhere?"
You have to understand that mindset is very, very important, and taking some small, calculated risks is really what's going to be required.
Igor Kheifets: I agree with you. I think really poverty is more of a mindset state than it is a physical state. It's a really great example you just shared with us, that people who say they got no money or they got no resources to invest in the business, you still see them wearing $500 jackets and $300 shoes and $50 underwear. Not that I look at people wearing underwear or anything like that. I'm just saying that people, like you said, it's all about priority. It's not about budgeting, and I find the same to be true about time.
One of the most common objections you'll ever encounter when you're selling online courses and pretty much anything else is, "I don't have time." This is something we faced, all of us. That's probably was one of the biggest objections that I faced when I was selling coaching, when I would get on the phone with people and offer them a $1,000 coaching programs. I have no time. It's one of those most common objections, and the more successful you become, and this is something that I would be really interested in hearing your input on, the more successful you become, the more opportunities you have hitting you, but you still have the same amount of hours in the day and probably more personal commitments now, so you have to lower the amount of work hours in your workday.
You're going to learn that, look, productivity is not a matter of finding more hours in a day, and it's not a matter of being able to squeeze more actions in a given hour. It's actually more about shutting off most things that are hitting you and prioritizing the most important activities and not doing anything other than those activities. All of a sudden, you go from making $25,000 a year in your online business, working 10 hours a day, really just hustling and grinding, to 10Xing that to $250,000 in a single year, working maybe three hours a day instead of 10 hours a day, and those three hours are enjoyable rather than feeling like a grind.
I'd love to hear your input on how are you able to go from making as little, and, again, for you now, it's little. Back then, it was a lot. I get that, but how do you go from, say, making $1,000 per month as an affiliate working part-time and probably busting your ass, to making 100,000 a year or maybe a million a year, probably working maybe four to six hours a day rather than really, really, really just grinding?
Andrew Fox: Well, let me [inaudible 00:15:07] this first. This is an interesting analogy, and I'll break this down for everyone on the call. This is the beautiful thing about, as you say, working better with your time, Igor. Let's compare yourself to a sports athlete, like somebody who plays football, soccer, plays in the NFL or they're a boxer or an MMA fighter. If you look at their careers and you actually go and look at their results, even the most successful fighters, they have a very small window of opportunity. They literally hit peak, Igor, for maybe three years, and then it's a downhill slope. Unless they have a bit of a personality or they've built a bit of a brand, they're a hero one day and then they just fall into the catacombs. They're totally gone, and that's why I think, last time I looked, over 90% of soccer players over here in the UK actually end up going bankrupt because they've got such an extraordinant lifestyle, and then when the money dries up, they're gone.
The great thing about businesses is you can be 20, 30, 40, 50, or even 60, but you can get smarter with age. It's not a physical thing. It's a mental thing, and that's very, very important.
Now that I've given that analogy, I'm going to go into the difference of making, say, $500 to $1,000 a month to 10,000 to 50 or breaking those $100,000 months. If you think about it, it is logical if, say, you have 1,000 people on our list, 1,000 people and they've bought something, well, if you have ... You're writing an email to these people. In theory, if you have 1,000 people on your list, if you have 10,000 people on your list, i.e., 10 times, would you make 10 times your money? Well, it never works exactly like that, Igor. I've never seen a direct correlation, but if you have maybe 10 times the people on your list, could you make three to four times your money? Yeah, absolutely, you can.
What's interesting is it takes you the same amount of effort to write that email, once you learn how to write a good email and a good converting email series. It takes the same amount of effort to send to 10,000 people as it does to 1,000 people. That's leverage. What you've got to figure out is, how am I going to drive more people to my list so I can leverage myself better?
Obviously, touching back on what you did, Igor, you're one of the biggest guys who does solo ads. It makes sense then for, say, people who are doing affiliate marketing and they're building a list by purchasing your solo ads. Well, it would make sense for them to promote affiliate offers, get that money, and then, instead of going and spending it on their lifestyle, like going and buying a car or buying a hotel or something, why not reinvest back into their business, grow that list quicker, and then leverage themselves to get bigger paydays and keep reinvesting and keep reinvesting? That's the difference, choosing to reinvest in your business when it's successful versus going and spending on lifestyle stuff initially. Give yourself a reward. If you need to, go and stay in a hotel for a night or go and buy yourself a one-off item or something to reward yourself, but then get back to it and reward yourself by reinvesting into your business.
Igor Kheifets: Absolutely. I think people are so adept to the idea that they can buy stuff on debt, that they take it way too far. For example, one of my really successful clients that used to be successful, and then he stepped away from Internet marketing, the moment he started growing ... I'm not going to mention his name. The moment he started growing in the first, I think, six month or so, he grossed I want to say $80 or $90,000, and I think profit from that was about 30%, and one of the first things he'd done was he traded his, an old, a really old BMW 7 series for a Maserati.
Obviously, he did it on debt, and he said he got a really great deal from the guy, whatever, but, at that point, I was already making over a million dollars a year, and I was still driving a shitty car because I come from a world of poverty, not just North American lack, where it's like you live next to somebody who lives in a million dollar home and you're living in a $200,000 home. I'm talking ghetto poverty, where people stab each other to steal the money to get food for family, where there's drugs on the streets, where mothers don't let their children get out of the house after 7:00 PM, that kind of world, and I've seen lack, and I've been, throughout my whole life, I've been reminded of what that feels like.
My philosophy was never about let's accumulate more debt and then find a way to pay it off. My mindset was let's make so much money that, as my best buddy, Dennis, says, "So you can buy a Ferrari and it feels like you're buying a Camry." That's really the idea that I always wanted to achieve.
Speaking of Ferraris, let's talk about something really interesting. This is purely for me. Do you like Top Gear?
Andrew Fox: I love Top Gear, yeah.
Igor Kheifets: Huge Top Gear buff over here. You know how they invite celebrities on the show and they start asking them, "So what was your first car? What was your second car?" We're not going to go into it extensively, but I'd love for you to chat about what it's like to own a Ferrari, why Ferrari specifically over other super cars. Why not, say, a Lambo, like most young Internet marketers do? What made you eventually trade it for a McLaren, and, again, what it's like, what's the experience like of owning a luxury or a super car because I'm seeing a lot of it over here where I live, and it seems like most people just put those cars in the garage and never drive them.
Andrew Fox: Sure. Well, I have always been ... I've been a [inaudible 00:21:11] since I was super young. I've always been passionate about cars, and when I was 14 years old, one of my more distant relatives, I found out that he had a Ferrari 355 and actually a Porsche 911. I was like, "Holy, holy mo- ... I gotta see this. I gotta go. Please take me. Please take me."
I'm very relentless when I want something. My parents eventually ended up arranging a trip to my relative's Ferrari. He took me out when I was 14 years old. I was mesmerized. All the noise of the acceleration, the rawness, it was just like, "This is amazing."
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Andrew Fox: I wanted that car, Igor, more than anything, probably more than anything, anyone. I had to get the Ferrari. I was about 14 years old at the time. When I was in school, I used to [inaudible 00:22:20] arch folders and you'd cut out pictures out of magazines, and then you would Sellotape them into your folders and stuff. [crosstalk 00:22:29]. It was just obsession. I wanted that car so bad.
What happened was when I was 26 years old, I believe, I signed a contract on this home. It was a luxurious, super beachfront house right on the beach. It was my dream home. I really want this Ferrari, as well, but I knew, traditionally, before I got the stupid stuff ... Let's call the stupid stuff the Ferrari, cars, because they depreciate and stuff typically. I thought, "Let's buy the sensible thing first."
This was the hardest thing ever, Igor. When you're saving up and you have the money in the bank, you actually have the physical cash to go and write a check. At the time, the car was around $65,000 maybe. When you have that physical cash to go buy that car and you want that all your life, and not to buy it, that takes a lot of self-restraint because I [inaudible 00:23:33] to fund the payment towards my house, so I just ignored it, and I just kept saving towards my house, and we completed on the house, and two months later, I actually bought the Ferrari 355, and then I went a little crazy, and another two months later, I bought a second Ferrari, so I owned both the Ferrari 355 and the 350 at the same time, and I think I was 26, 27 years old, somewhere around there, maybe 26, and it was amazing.
Even back then, I didn't really even realize the craziness of it. What do the neighbors think of this young kid just coming into this quite nice neighborhood in this place and then there's two Ferraris at the door? He's partying all the time. I never really thought about the crazy aspect. To me, it actually seemed normal because I'd wanted my life to be this way. I dreamt about it. This was my life. This was how I was going to live it. I wasn't going to let anyone else tell me what life should be like. Go work in a job [inaudible 00:24:34]. Go drive in traffic every day. That just wasn't for me. By 26, 27 years old, I achieved what I really wanted to.
Igor Kheifets: Wow, that's nuts. That's nuts. You owned two Ferraris, simultaneously, at the age of 26?
Andrew Fox: Yeah.
Igor Kheifets: You're crazy. How is it like to own a Ferrari? I have a friend who owns a Ferrari, or he used to own one, and he says that if you put them in the garage and forget to disconnect the battery, then the battery dies overnight.
Andrew Fox: Yeah, it depends. I suppose I actually never had any problems with the batteries in mine, which probably is testament to the fact I actually drove them quite a lot, but you did need to take care of them and stuff, and the maintenance bills are traditionally high on them. Part of that reason is obviously Ferrari will charge a lot more.
At the end of the day, if you're putting an air filter in the car, is there really that much difference in an air filter in a regular car and a Ferrari? I don't think so, but the price is five times higher. That's just the way it is.
Igor Kheifets: Well, it's not only just with a Ferrari. I drive an S-Class, and it's not a brand new S-Class. I'm one of these guys who ain't willing to pay the depreciation, but, still, it's a pretty good car with leather, with massage seats and all that jazz, right?
Andrew Fox: Yeah, they're all-
Igor Kheifets: I took it to the mechanic, and I'm like, "So, my wipers sucks. They go one way. They clean up the windshield, but then they go the other way, and it sort of smears dirt all over," and I say, "I wanna change them." You know what it costs? It costs $95 to change the wipers on an S-Class. Again, just like you said, are these really an different? Probably not, but the thing is that they get hooked on in a certain way specifically and unique to the S-Classes, so they end up overcharging you for something as ridiculous as putting on your wipers. Nuts, nuts, nuts. What made you get rid of the Ferrari and get a McLaren?
Andrew Fox: Well, I went through a few cars in between them. I think we had the Audi RS 4. I had that for ... Oh, wait, I bought a ... I actually had four Ferraris, not two. I ended up buying another Ferrari 355 convertible. I had the drop-top version, and I had a couple. I owned them both at the same time, and then I bought a Ferrari F430. With the Ferrari 430, I had a few mechanical issues with them, and it ticked me off a little bit, so I ended up getting a bit grumpy and sold it. Then I ended up traveling quite a lot because I'd bought the yacht, as well, around then, and I took off and I was just traveling around the Mediterranean and having fun. I think I maybe sold the cars back then because I wasn't really here to drive them that much, and then I get back into the cars, and I started collecting Porsches.
Part of the reasons I've been enjoying the Porsches is I love doing track days, and I've been doing [inaudible 00:27:35]. It's been a lot of fun. In the middle, I got a McLaren, as well.
Igor Kheifets: Wow, crazy. All right. Cool. Enough teasing. We've been teasing the folks enough.
Let's talk strategy. Let's talk. Again, I know that we can't really go much into detail because that would require for us to record a whole course, and you've got probably something already done for that, but let's go into the strategy of, what do you think made you a super affiliate? What kind of maybe success principles that you followed over the years that are guaranteed to work for people who implement them?
Andrew Fox: It's really, Igor, it's going the extra mile. Let's break this down. I don't mind. I'm pretty abundant mindsetted. I just like to give people great advice and content. Hopefully, someone will come back after listening to this interview and hit me up on Facebook or Instagram or wherever and say, "Hey, dude, your stuff really works." Goodwill is more important to me than dollars. I know that's probably back of the front with a lot of people, but I love just putting that good stuff to the world.
Let's assume you're promoting an affiliate product. It's a new product release. As you know, Igor, when vendors launch new products on JVZoo.com or ClickBank, they'll do a special period for a launch where they'll do incentives where they'll maybe do a one-off pricing offer instead of recurring or they'll do a price reduction, and they'll have a contest where you can win cash prizes or other prizes.
Igor Kheifets: [crosstalk 00:29:06].
Andrew Fox: Let's say [inaudible 00:29:08] the affiliate. They just say, "Oh, I'm just gonna sign up to my ... I'm just gonna promote this to my list, and I'm gonna send three emails in a week." Well, I'm like, "Hell, no. Look, I gotta actually ... I gotta think about this and strategize."
What I do is before the promotion even comes out, I tell my subscribers, "Look, there's a product coming out about X, Y, Zed," whatever it may be. "It's going to be really, really good, but I'm actually gonna bring my own bonus package," and then I think about what the product is and how I can enhance the value. Why should they buy through me? What am I giving them extra? I talk about the product and why it's good.
Secondly, I may do an interview with that product owner, say, "Look, I'm gonna promote this product really hard. Could I do a quick interview with you for 15 minutes? You can teach me about the product," and that gives a bit of, again, more value to the customer.
There is another [inaudible 00:30:02], Igor, is if people see that you're actually genuinely doing a promotion or you're doing a video with a product owner, they can [inaudible 00:30:11] and resonate the fact that you're not just some bloodsucker, you're not just trying to sell them something to make money off them from promoting their product. They feel like this guy actually believes in this product because he's going through this extra effort, he's giving me these bonuses, he's giving me an early bird discount, and interviewing with the product owner. I warn them up before the product's even live, and then the day before ... This is really important. The day before, say the product's going live at 2:00 PM Eastern Standard Time. You need to send an email the day before saying, "Okay. The product goes live tomorrow at 2:00 PM Eastern, Wednesday," whenever it may be. "I'm going to send you the link at 2:45 PM, 15 minutes before we go live, and you need to be in the first 50 people to receive the bonus package, which is X, Y, Zed." Again, you describe the bonuses, [inaudible 00:31:01] the value of the product. Talk about why the product is good. It's very good. However, it's missing this one thing that will really enhance the product, and that's the value that you're bonuses bring. You condition your customer. It's all about conditioning the customer.
Then, when it goes live, drop an email, as promised, and tell them, as well, the day before, the subject line of the email will be Open Now My 50 Bonuses, so then they're prepared for that, and when they see that subject line come in the next day, Open Now My 50 Bonuses, they're mentally prepared for that.
Trust me, this stuff really works, Igor. Send out an email immediately, and then send out a further email about four or five hours later. "Hey, did you see my email?"
Then, what you want to do, as well ... Again, this is really easy stuff. At the end of the day, look who hasn't opened your emails so far. You can segment by opened/unopened. Send an email with the subject line, "Hey, you didn't open this?" with a question mark, and then say, "Hey, I notice you didn't open this email, and it's really important," and just copy and paste the previous email that you've written because you know they haven't seen it because they haven't opened it. Send it to the unopened, and that's going to boost your sales even more.
What I like to do is I push the promotion for a whole week. I keep dropping value about how the product will help them, and then, traditionally, say it's a five or seven-day launch, on the last day, put a big, big deadline on it, a big emphasis on the scarcity, the price is going up, the deadline is coming, and make sure that you also use a timer in your emails. This works really, really well. You can use, I think it's ... Let me try and actually get [inaudible 00:32:35] product for you. I want to tell this because this stuff works really well.
Igor Kheifets: Deadline Funnel?
Andrew Fox: Yeah, Deadline Funnel's good, but it's quite expensive, and it is good, but I want to tell your people about ... There's a tool from Martin Crumlish. It's called EasyEmailTimer.com. That is going to explode their conversions. EasyEmailTimer.com. I think it's $27 or something. It's really simple.
Yeah, Deadline Funnel's good, but it's quite expensive, and it is good, but I want to tell your people about ... There's a tool from Martin Crumlish. It's called EasyEmailTimer.com. That is going to explode their conversions. EasyEmailTimer.com. I think it's $27 or something. It's really simple. Deadline Timer has a bit more functionality, but it's $50 or $60 a month, so it's way more expensive. If anyone's here on a shoestring budget, EasyEmailTimer.com is pretty good by Marin Crumlish, and he's a pretty good software developer. He does pretty good stuff.
That is a rough outline of the strategy that I use, Igor. If people use this in this promotion to promote affiliate products, I could hand on heart say that they will at least 2 to 3X times their normal returns.
Igor Kheifets: Well, I can testify that this blueprint is actually ... has brought me probably more money than any other promotional blueprint that I've ever done. The only piece that's missing for me over here is a webinar, which I'm going to touch on in just a second, but, first, I want to go over what you just mentioned and break it down into the elements that make it tick. The first thing I want to point out is that what you're showing us here, the principle behind your behavior, is taking a deep effort approach for the promotion.
I have an affiliate program myself for a traffic agency and for a webinar, and I see how people promote things, and what I really hate is a half-ass effort by the affiliate, like somebody who really just all they want is for you to give them an email swipe and even load that swipe for them into their responder and just leave them alone. I really don't like that approach, and, usually, it results in just way fewer sales than if they truly, truly support you with deep effort like you just described.
The other thing you mentioned is interviews. Interviews is probably one of those things that allowed me to get a lot of credibility in the marketplace when I first got started because, first off, it's an easy way to create content where you don't have to be the one creating the content. It's just an easy way to get other people to create your content for you for free that you can then publish to your list.
The other thing is that when you do an interview with somebody who has more credibility than you or has more authority than you, well, that automatically rubs some of their authority and credibility onto you. That's pretty cool.
Then, you mention you're teasing your list. That's pretty cool. Teasing your list, building up the desire towards that product launch, which is really, really smart. It actually makes it seem way more valuable.
The other thing you mentioned was that you always offer a bonus, giving your list a reason to buy from your link and not someone else's because it's so easy for them to go and buy from someone else, gives them a better reason to buy.
By the way, guys, if you think that people will just buy from you because they like you, that's wrong. Trust me. They will go and they will buy from whoever gives them the best bonus, all the time. That's why your bonuses have to be really good.
The other thing you mentioned was sending to unopeneds, which is still a very underrated strategy. I'm not even sure why, but so few people that I know use that. Probably, a lot of it has to do with people being afraid of being annoying, to email their list too often, and you said you're mailing to unopeneds like four hours later.
Andrew Fox: Yeah. I would probably wait ... If I, say, mailed it 2:00 PM Eastern Time, I would probably wait till maybe 9:00 or 10:00 PM Eastern Time, or I would program it for the next morning. "Hey, you didn't open this email."
Igor Kheifets: Makes sense, make perfect sense. By the way, guys, if you think that sending to unopeneds will increase your unsubscribe rates or spam complaints, stuff like that, trust me, it's not true. Most of the time, what it's going to do, it's going to get you at least half of the amount of opens you got on the first email, and you will not get as nearly, as nearly as many spam complaints and unsubscribes as you think you will because these people will just be grateful for you to remind them about things because we all get busy.
The other thing you mentioned was you're using scarcity, using scarcity, and that's really important. Nothing drives sales better than scarcity, and we had a whole episode about that actually with the founder of Deadline Funnel that I recommend you check out at listbuildinglifestyleshow.com.
Last but not least, you said you're promoting for a whole week. Rather than just mailing it out once and expecting for people to first, A, pay attention, and, B, want to buy it, and, C, actually commit to buying it, then, D, actually buying it, you're not assuming that it's going to happen on the one email to two emails that you send out. You send out for the whole week. Correct me if I'm wrong, but probably in the last day, you're really driving it home with more emails just to press on that scarcity vibe.
Andrew Fox: Oh, yeah. The last day, Igor, minimum of three emails.
Igor Kheifets: Wow, nice, nice, nice, nice.
My strategy is I mail out nine times on the last day. I'm really aggressive.
Trust me, you do think that if you do that, you get spam complaints, unsubscribes. The last day, when I do that, I actually get fewer unsubscribes [inaudible 00:38:10]. It's the last two emails that I send out that get the most clicks, which is crazy. People just have a tendency to stall right until the very last second. Don't they?
Andrew Fox: Yeah. [crosstalk 00:38:23]-
Igor Kheifets: I guess it's just nature.
Andrew Fox: Here's an example. Let me explain how even in real life it works. Say I went on Amazon and I visited and I've looked up something like ... Let's say there was a car book or I look at ... What do you call it? The Amazon Echo, and I think, "Yeah, I'll have a look at that." It says, "It's 90 pounds, but it's down to 55 pounds during Black Friday [inaudible 00:38:54]," and so I don't buy initially because I'm busy or I'm [inaudible 00:38:59] or I'm on my phone or something, whatever, and then I start getting retargeted. I open Facebook and it says, "Oh, Amazon Alexa, come and join us, blah, blah, blah, blah," but, then, it gets to Sunday, and they say, "Black Friday sale ends tonight. It ends tonight. Don't miss out on your Black Friday. Don't miss out on your Echo. Save tonight. 89.99 down to 54.99."
Igor, when it comes down to the last three hours and I know that that's going to go up from 55 pounds to 90 pounds and I've got a few emails about it, am I going to buy it? You're damn right I'm going to buy it, but, you see, as human beings, we procrastinate. We wait till the last minute. It's the same as going to marketing events and offline events. They all fill up at the last moment. It's just people love to procrastinate. That's human nature, but it's our job as marketers to keep reminding them of the product and service.
Guess what? If you don't do it, my friend, somebody else will.
Igor Kheifets: Nice. I love it. I love it. I really enjoy unapologetic, aggressive marketing because I truly believe that if you are a marketer and you believe in the solutions you're promoting, it is your ethical responsibility to do your absolute best job to promote it and convince other people to buy it, and if you-
Andrew Fox: [crosstalk 00:40:14] jump in here. The richest man in the world at the moment is Jeff Bezos, and in in the year 2000, he was pioneering stuff like, based on the product that you bought, here are some similar recommendations, like an artificial intelligence [inaudible 00:40:30]. He was knowing that a buyer is a buyer.
Look at me and super cars. I didn't just buy a Ferrari. I bought a Ferrari. I bought a Porsche. I bought a McLaren. Buyers are buyers within their [inaudible 00:40:41]. You don't just stick to one brand. It's not like ... Even Frank [inaudible 00:40:45], who says, "Dude, someone isn't going to just buy my stuff and then he's not going to buy anyone else's. He's going to consume marketing content because buyers are buyers. You need to explain that. They'll buy again and again.
Igor Kheifets: Agree with you completely, and I've been utilizing this concept more so this year than the previous years because as I've been sharing with you before the call, I spent a long time automating my business so it doesn't run my life and so I can just enjoy my life without the business running it, but buyers are totally buyers by the mindset. It's not a demographic, like most people think. It's actually a state of mind, and I'm a buyer myself. I buy a lot, and I actually feel bad when I don't. I feel that there's less progress in my life if I didn't buy something that I can either study or use or improve some kind of area over my life.
Of course, it doesn't mean that I take action on everything I buy, but I am probably way more ahead over the people who don't buy at all. Just like you said, if you don't take any risks, if you don't take any chances, you're not likely to create any sort of results because if nothing changes, nothing changes, and I truly feel that if you are to become successful in any endeavor, you better get that investor mindset going because it will serve you and it will make you so much more money, even though you will get disappointed every now and again.
I've had my fair share of stories where I pay 20 grand to people and nothing happened, and that's cool because for every 20 grand that I invested, nothing happened, I have three more stories where I invested and things happened. I'm choosing to direct my attention towards the successes rather than pondering the failures.
First off, it's been a great, great, great, tremendous pleasure interviewing you and sharing with you about super cars, about yachts, about success, mindset, about your promotional strategies, and it's really coming full circle for me because, again, like I said, one of your products, Affiliate Millionaire, was the first product where you openly stated, "Look, this is a program about becoming a super affiliate, and that's what I'm gonna teach you, but the first thing you need to understand is that you need a buyer's list, so let's do that first. Let me teach you how to build your own product and sell that product so you can build a buyer's list so you can then promote anything you want and become a super affiliate." That's been truly one of the reasons behind my success, why I've been pleased this year alone, dominating affiliate leader awards, knocking off people that are super famous Internet marketers off their perches.
I truly can't thank you enough for that. I appreciate you openly breaking down your promotional protocol, which, again, most people won't do. A lot of times, I'll bring someone on the show and they'll be hiding things, being afraid that, "Oh, if people find out how I do it, all of a sudden, it's not gonna be effective anymore," but the strategy you described is just timeless. I think it's going to work 10 years from now, just as well as it's been working for the last 10 years.
Obviously, having listened to the episode, we're going to have people pretty much dying to work with you, dying to learn more about you, asking how can they find out more about your strategies, where can they go to pick up some of your nuggets? Where can we direct them? Where can we tell them to go in order to get more Foxy?
Andrew Fox: Absolutely, Igor. I've actually just started something recently where people can hear more about the Foxy Rants and buy my products and services. It's gofoxy.com, which is G-O-F-O-X-Y.com, and I usually have an opt-in box there where they can enter their name and email and I'll get them on my list, and it also ... Something that I've been testing, I did add them to my messenger bot list so I can communicate with them directly via Facebook Messenger so it ensures that they get new discounts and special promotions and stuff I had on everyone else. It's proven to be very popular.
Igor Kheifets: All right. Cool. Guys, if you want to learn more from Foxy or about Foxy or just get his nuggets and rants and see what it's like to be a super affiliate and living that lifestyle, go to gofoxy.com. That's gofoxy.com, and find the opt-in box, get on his list, sign up for the messenger updates and follow this guy. Follow this guy because he knows what he's doing, and he's one of the older super affiliates in the game. We're talking about the inception of the Internet old.
Foxy, I can't be more grateful for you investing this time to rap with me about affiliate marketing and working from home and super affiliate success. I appreciate you being honest and transparent about the way you do things so our listeners can learn from you and model your behaviors and not blatantly steal, but model, and get inspired. Thank you very much for investing this time in the list builders, and until next time we chat, have a good one.
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