Why Chat GPT A.I. Is Not a Copywriter-Killer With Bob Bly

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What if you could get your hands on a unique, and effective email copy in one text? This new chatbot can write essays, create opinion pieces, answer questions, and so much more. But, can it replace copywriters? Tune in to find out!

Guest: Bob Bly is one of America’s top copywriters with over 4 decades of experience in writing copy that has increased response rates for his clients. He has authored over a hundred books on various aspects of copywriting, freelance writing, and many other subjects from science and science fiction, to satire and small business.

[00:17] In this episode, Igor is joined by Bob Bly to discuss some of the age-old issues in copywriting and selling products, the reader’s attention span, consumer psychology, the effectiveness of AI-generated copies, and more!

[00:24] Should we write shorter copies or sell faster?

  • There’s no right length for every application. Some in fact do work better with short copies and you can test these things.

  • You can do an AB split test, let’s say just a long copy versus a short copy so you don’t have to guess at it, you can measure it precisely.

  • A short copy will work well with certain audiences, certain products, and certain media. And with others, a long copy will work better.

[02:24] Shorter YouTube Ads perform better:

  • YouTube ads I did notice this to be true, where if my ad is shorter than three minutes, it does tend to operate better. It tends to generate a higher view rate, which is logical because view rate is relative to the length of the video and how much of it people watch. But it also gets a higher clickthrough rate.

  • Specifically to YouTube and specifically to YouTube ads, it does pay better to produce shorter-form content.

  • For YouTube, two to three minutes works best.

[03:54] Spread out your funnel:

  • In the pre-internet days, we found that often the longer the sales letter, the better it pulled.

  • Back in that day, all the copies were at the front end of the letter. Now, some of the copies, as you say in the funnel, are in the email, some are in the Facebook ad, some are in the video, and some are in the lander. So it’s the same length, it’s just spread out more.

[05:30] The ideal length of webinars:

  • I can have a webinar that is 90 minutes long and the same offer being sold over the course of 3 hours. And the three-hour webinar will pull better.

  • And sometimes even they’ll watch the three-hour webinar, but then they’ll go watch it again on the replay just to get the key points.

  • If somebody’s really invested or interested in your solution, there’s really no almost I guess it’s relative, but almost no limit to how much content and how much time they’re going to invest into consuming your content, whether it’s like three pages, ten pages, or 30 pages.

[06:38] If people are interested, they’ll read:

  • People, in general, may not read your copy, but the people who do read it are buyers and those are the only ones you care about.

  • I had a goal, I had a purpose, and I had a problem that I needed to solve. And as a result, my attention kind of zeroed in on that particular resource that I needed to go through.

  • What the reader is interested in is the reader. His problems are her problems, her concerns, her fears, and her desires. And if you’re talking about that, they’ll stick with you.

[09:29] The 27-Word Persuasion Sentence:

  • “People will do anything for those who encourage their dreams, justify their failures, allay their fears, confirm their suspicions and help them throw rocks at their enemies.”

  • The point being is that people always think of themselves. They look at the world through their own set of eyes, with their own set of preferences, and you’re irrelevant until you talk about the things that are dear to their heart.

[10:16] The WIIFM formula:

  • The WIIFM formula = What’s in it for me?

  • You’re supposed to dive into the mind of the reader.

[14:11] Writing copy for a cemetery:

  • You want to show love and respect, and treat them as they deserve. That’s why people you know, the industry, spend $8,000 on this beautiful brass and a varnished wood coffin that people are going to see for ten minutes, and then you’re going to put it underground when a pine box would do just as well. But people feel, I can’t put my dad or my wife in a pine box. That’s how it works.

[18:15] How to select a niche?

  • When you’re selecting a niche, you need to select a niche with an irrational buy-in behavior, be it golfers or anything else. Because it’s those markets that are most profitable and the markets where you can go and write this really engaging, great copy that can produce big results.

[20:17] Is ChatGPT AI the end of copywriters?

  • We’re now entering an age where we’re going to have lots and lots and lots of copywriters using AI to write surface-level ad copy.

  • Most people don’t want to write, they don’t want to write emails even if I show them tricks and tips on how to not write them.

  • You can write out an email by speaking it into your voice recorder or an app on your phone. Now there are apps that instantly transcribe what you’re saying, so you can actually speak it into your computer or phone and instantly have your email properly formatted in front of you. And yet still people won’t do it.

  • It truly is brilliant, for sure. But the copywriters aren’t dead yet.

  • Copywriting at the lower levels of the craft, the fiber levels, and the Upwork level is becoming or has become a commodity service. That is still a skill that is in demand and most people and software do not have it.

  • That’s because it’s short form, like you said, long form. It’s still incapable of really dissecting it. It’s short form and it manipulates information. It does not speak to the human heart.

[26:36] The MOST important ingredient of selling:

  • Some people don’t realize that what’s more powerful than facts and information in selling is emotion.

  • Emotion beats logic. You need both. But emotion is dominant.

  • First, it’s like the emotional decision that comes first, and then logic. We use it to sort of justify the decision we already made.

[28:55] Avoid “selling”:

  • An army of sellers who are getting people, who are messaging people on Facebook and trying to close the deals using conversations or conversational, copy or conversational offers, whatever. But it created an idea or a sense in the room, that selling is like a dirty word now.

  • We don’t sell anymore. When you write, the copy is irrelevant. We have conversations.

  • At some point, you have to close the deal and copy where it comes in best. It does more than this. It can close the deal. But if you’re just talking endlessly, you don’t get anywhere.

[36:08] One Piece of Advice For Marketers:

  • One of them is that I used to say to clients, I won’t write for any product that is illegal, immoral, or fattening.

  • If you feel good about the product, you will have a natural enthusiasm that overcomes it.

  • And instead of selling, think of it if you like the product and I don’t sell products that I don’t like or are not interested in.

[49:44] Learn more about Bob Bly:



Igor Kheifets is an amazon best-selling author of the List Building Lifestyle: Confessions of an Email Millionaire.

He’s also the host of List Building Lifestyle, the podcast for anyone who wants to make more money and have more freedom by leveraging the power of an email list

He’s widely referred to as the go-to authority on building large responsive email lists in record time.

Igor’s passionate about showing people how to live the List Building Lifestyle.