How To Avoid Paying Taxes Legally With Caleb Jones

Hi I’m Igor Kheifets. And this is the list building lifestyle. The podcast for anyone who wants to build a wildly profitable email list working from home. If you’d like to make six figures travel the world and help people improve their lives in the process, this podcast is for you. I also invite you to claim a free copy of my bestselling book, the list building lifestyle Confessions of an email millionaire at www.igorsbook.com. Get the free book plus $3,000 bonus package that includes my best capture page templates, email, swipe files, and traffic blueprints. Visit www.igorsbook.com for details. And now it’s time to claim your list building lifestyle.

00:52

Welcome back to the list building lifestyle. I’m your host Igor Kheifets. And today I’m going to be chatting with Caleb Jones. Caleb is a business consultant, entrepreneur, author of eight books, and world traveler at the age of 24. He started his own consulting firm from scratch and reached the top 5% of his industry’s earning level within just three years. Over the next 26 years, he has worked with over 300 companies of all sizing sizes, including the fortune 500. All over the United States, Europe and Asia. He has started seven companies, all of which were profitable. He actually wrote so many books and sold so many copies that it’s enough to be listed on the New York Times bestsellers list. And he makes seven figures around three companies today, and two online brands, including the alpha male 2.0 brand, which is a lifestyle design for men brand and sovereign CEO, where he is helping people create location independent incomes and internet nationalizing their lives to save money on taxes and other costs. he’s most famous for the concept he coined called the five flags, which we will be discussing today. And he’s an overall incredible person to study because if there’s, you know how, like lots of people talk about building a life of their dreams, or living the life of their dreams, or, you know, lifestyle design, this guy actually does it like he actually sat down, made a list of all the things you want in life, and got them all, which I can’t help but respect admire, and envy just a little so that’s why I brought him on the list building lifestyle. Caleb, welcome to the show. Great to be here. I’m talking about the button. Yes, it sure will be so bestselling. Let’s start off with five flags. What is that? What are the five flags?

02:48

So, five flags are a concept where you internationalize your lifestyle. And you are designing a lifestyle where you pay the legal minimum of taxes, some guys can pay literally 0%, you get down to one or 2%. I’m about four or 5%. It’s all legal number one, number two, you maximize your mobility. So, if there’s any problems with your country, or any country, you can just move to another country anytime you want. You have residency in multiple countries, and you’re okay. Three years, you’re freer, because the least number of laws and regulations apply to you and your money and your lifestyle. So, it’s a way of both increasing your freedom and your stability at the same time. The old thing years ago was, you know, more freedom or, but if you increase your freedom, you have more risk. And that’s usually true. But five flags increase your stability and your freedom at the same time. So, in my note that I’m in terms of the five flags, it gets a little complicated. So, I will summarize. Your first flag is the country where you live, or at least spend most of the time in a given year, so at least, you know, six months a year there. And that is a country where you are not a citizen. So, you do not have citizenship in the country where you live. And the reason for that is you have more regulations and rules and taxes if you’re a citizen of where you live than if you’re a visitor or resident or guest of where you live. So, I live in Dubai, United Arab Emirates, and I am not a citizen there. I don’t want to be but I’m a legal resident. So, the reason I want that is because things like So, during the pandemic, they required their citizens to get vaccinated. I didn’t want to get a vaccine. So, I didn’t get

04:22

For many years up until about a year ago, it was illegal to drink alcohol if you were a citizen, but if you’re a resident, they don’t care to drink all you want. So that’s just an example that’s most countries you’ll actually have more freedom if you’re not a citizen. And then the second flag is the opposite. That is where you have citizenship and passport but you don’t live there. Because if you don’t live there, you don’t pay taxes there with rare exceptions. The United States is a slight exception, but even then, you get a lot of discounts. So, if you’re a citizen of Canada, but you don’t live in Canada and live somewhere else, most of the year full time you’re not paying any taxes to Canada. So, then the third flag is where your business is based.

05:00

Ideally, your business is based somewhere where you don’t live in a place that is a legal tax haven that has zero or low corporate tax. So that money comes into your business entity that goes to your country.

05:12

Let’s see 1234. The fourth one is where you have your assets. So that’d be your fourth flag. And that would be again, you don’t want assets where you live. So, for example, I live in Dubai. I love Dubai, because there’s zero tax there. It’s a zero-tax country. But I don’t want a lot of assets in Dubai, because if something ever happened to me down the road, if there was a war, or a coup or a problem, all my assets are gone. I don’t want my assets where I live, and I want them internationally diversified around the world. So, here’s a good example. This, you know, John McAfee is or was

05:45

the antivirus guys? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, what he did, he did a variation of this model, but he violated the fourth flag. So, he moved to, I think, believe that that’s the country and he moved all of his assets down beliefs. And he was a madman and so, a bunch of crazy shipped down there, and the government didn’t like it. And so, they arrested him and confiscated all his assets, he was barely able to escape. And he basically lost everything. And he was a multi millionaire all gone in like a week because he had his assets where you live, you don’t do that. And then the final flight, the fifth leg is kind of optional, mind you, and I don’t really do much of it. It’s where you vacation, where you buy your stuff. So instead of vacationing in Hawaii, where it’s beautiful, but extremely expensive, and they rip you off, you can vacation somewhere like the Philippines, which has better beaches in Hawaii, but it’s 1/10 the cost. For example, another example would be when you buy something like consumer electronics, a laptop or something that if you buy them in Singapore, they’re super cheap, because that’s where they’re all not manufactured. But that’s where they’re all sold at the front level and wholesale. And so, you can buy things, the equivalent items internationally that are much cheaper than you could buy them where you currently live. So, if you do all five of those flags, you’re paying the vast amount of minimum tax, your assets are protected, and your freedom is maximized. Now five flags is complicated, I just listed something very confident. So very few people who do all five lakhs, so I recommend for most people to just take one or two, and focus on one or two, because most people what I just listed is beyond, you know most of the Oh my God, that sounds so confident and it is. So instead, if you just say Plan B international backup plan, can you get a country where you can get residency without living there, maybe get a little apartment, or know the country very well into the city very well where if there’s any problems, you can immediately go there within 72 hours, and you’re covered. So right now, I’m in Paraguay, this is my plan B my second home, you know, I live in Dubai,

07:39

That’s easy. So that would be called a backup flag, for example. Or if you want to move out of the country, great by the country, you can spend X amount of time back in your home country to visit your family and your friends and your parents. So that’s what I do. So, I live in Dubai and in Paraguay now. I was in Portland. I’ve been here for about three weeks. About two weeks before that I was in Portland, Oregon, which is where I’m from visiting my family for a week visiting my daughter to see my parents who are elderly. So, I make sure to go back to Portland about twice a year for a few weeks at a time. And I have a location dependent income much like you so I can go anywhere I want. That’s a component you need location dependent to make this happen, location and income if you have a location dependent on different jobs. So that’s why even though I focus on five flags level one to five flags is to develop your location dependent income first. So, then you can do these things. So I don’t know if I can answer your question. That’s So, a lot in one answer. But I know that’s So, quite a bit. Yeah. And it does sound extremely complicated. Sounds lots of paperwork and bureaucracy and

08:40

and, yeah, it’s just, I don’t recommend it. For most people, most people are not going to do five flags, they might do one or two. Anyone can do one or two, anyone kind of a backup plan. Anyone who has location dependent income, at least could spend a few months outside the country and get it to another country as a backup or a place that has lower taxes, things like that. Anyone can do that. That’s not difficult. So, it’s a matter of doing level one a backup plan or something like that. And then once you’re comfortable, then you can look at doing other flags if you want, but those are okay. All right. So let me ask you this. So, what do you think is the minimum so obviously location independent income is kind of like a must for this to happen but most people have that today. Most people can either work remote or they start their own businesses or they do e farming like my customers do. So that’s So, almost like a given.

09:34

What about income level? So how much do you want to be earning before you should consider something like that, given that it’s probably going to cost you money for travel and is going to cost you money for setting up different entities getting a second place a third place, you know, oldest strategizing lawyers and what not. So, what would you reckon is like the minimum you want to be making before you want to consider making a move like that? So, there is a happiness minimum and there’s logistical minimum

10:00

Those are two different things. So, I’ll cover both numbers. So, when I talk about this number a lot, there is a lot of scientific empirical data that shows that if you make less than $85,000 a year in US dollars, so if you have your own business, because obviously this goes up for after tax, that is after, excuse me, that is net income before taxes, get real business. Okay? So, $85,000 a year, which is about 7000 a month in USD, so you feel free to convert for most Westerners. We know empirically that the vast majority of people are making under that amount, you’ll be happier if you made at least that amount. And that would be enough for certain countries we’ll talk about in a second. So one answer is, when people ask in general, how much money should you make , 85,000 should be your first goal. Now, if you want to make more than that, you and I make many multiples of that great, make more, but a minimum, the bare minimum is 85,000, which is about 7000 a month, you have 7000 A month coming in for most Westerners, you’ll be happy, happier that way than when you made less than that. If you want to make more, that’s up to you depending on your personality. Okay. So then in terms of how much money you need to actually do this, that depends on the countries you choose. So, a lot of people will specifically move out of the country to save money on lifestyle. So here in part why it’s super cheap, you can get I’m in this isn’t a good example, but I’m in one of the nicest apartments in the country. And it’s a big two-bedroom apartment. And this costs around and it’s downtown, the coolest part of the city. And this is caught this would cost you around 1500 A month USD for $400 a month. $600 a month you get a decent nice studio apartment here. In the best part of town with the best gyms the gym I go to down the street is better than the gym I use in Dubai, which is one of the highest end cities in the world. It’s crazy. But it’s and it’s two-bedroom 40 bucks a month USD, whereas in Dubai, it’s like 120. So, if you go somewhere cheap, the only factor to factor in is how often do you go back home

12:04

to your point. So, if you want to go back home a lot, you have to figure out plane tickets. But the other side of that is I’m talking about this, um, you can get around if you give time and research and patience, you can pretty much get a round trip ticket for one person for about 800 bucks to anywhere in the world. With rare exception, you could go pretty much people think all cost 1000s of dollars in or bucks, 80 buck’s roundtrips. If you’re patient and flexible about the dates, and you and you do the research, without any trouble hacking enter bucks, okay, maybe 200 bucks. So, let’s say you go I’ll do that twice a year. Okay, that’s 1600 a year, maybe 2000 a year. And then you live in places like Chiang Mai, Thailand, or many in Colombia, or here in Paraguay, there’s so many places that are so cheap and so cool to live in, you can easily afford that. So again, I go back to the $85,000 level, your level, if you have very little debt, and you’re single elsewhere and your lifestyle, right? If you have a family, if you’re a single guy, your young guy, you have no debt, no girlfriend, no wife, no kids. Oh, you can live like a king. Sounds like a dream. Where can I get that?

13:12

Yeah, there’s so many places I have a whole list but is the name of the game in Southeast Asia or South America or Southeast Asia, South America, parts of Southeast Asia are very cheap. Now he has a higher income and you want to live well. And you’re just more focused on taxes, which is why I moved to the United States about two years ago. My thing wasn’t costly. My thing was taxes. Because I was getting murdered. I was still paying less than most people. But still, I work very hard. I’m not going to pay a fifth of my income in taxes. So, the United States can go bomb a bunch of countries and I’m not going to do that. So, I went to Dubai. Now Dubai is not low in terms of living costs for my house in Dubai. I have a house with my wife. Let’s see. It’s a house. It’s a nice house. It’s four bedrooms. In a gated community in Dubai. It’s not downtown, it’s out. And the rent there’s $9,000 USD a month. Sanaya has a lot of money. Night Wow. But I’m making enough money where it’s okay and I pay. I don’t know what the exact number is because I just made this transition about a year ago and am still doing their taxes. I pay around 4% total income on my taxes of all the income I pay the typical western, especially Americans but Canadians pretty bad to Western Europeans. You’re paying between 50 and 70% of your total taxes on taxes you see in taxes you don’t see people think oh, just pay a 30% tax. No, you don’t, you pay a whole lot more taxes. I pay about four or five, and I make decent money. So, when you’re making that kind of money and you’re paying virtually nothing in taxes legally, it’s not a big deal to get a house now that that’s my lifestyle choice. I don’t have to live in a house like that. I can live in Mexico; we spent a lot of time there while the harvest is much cheaper. So, it depends on what your lifestyle objective is. But for most guys, especially younger guys, you don’t even you don’t even need 5000 . You can do it in 60 if you have low debt, low life, infrastructure, things like that.

15:00

So, it really depends on your lifestyle. You don’t need a lot of money to do this. And in terms of if I go too fast, you can interrupt me in terms of setting up residencies and things like that.

15:10

You can set up a residency in places like Paraguay, UAE, Armenia, not Armenia, excuse me, Mexico for about 2000 bucks or less. If you do it yourself, and you’re very patient, and you have someone to help you translate the language, things like that 2000 bucks you need if you get help, maybe 5000. Maybe if it’s cheaper if you actually live there, if you’re to stay there, most of you think that it’s a lot less expensive, because you’ll have, you can just do all the appointments yourself, because you already are there.

15:40

I talked about the top five countries in the world to get residency and where you don’t have to physically move there. And that’s one of those paraglides. The other one is do we need to buy Armenia, Mexico and Panama. So, I focus on those five, because a lot of guys say, well, I want to resign but I still want to move there. Great. He’s fine. You don’t move there. So the other myth is why don’t want to live in that country. I don’t want you not to live there. I don’t live in Paraguay. I have residency in five countries. Five or six. I live in one. So, if I’m getting this right, I’m North America. No good.

16:16

Europe, most European countries, no, good. Correct. Yeah. So yeah. Okay. That’s interesting. I’ve always, you know, I’ve been earning location dependent income for a long time now. Well over 10 years. So, the question is, why are you still here? It really comes up a lot in dinner conversations with people who are my buddies in Canada. You’re in Canada, right? Yes. Yeah. Yeah, I have buddies. And can I ask them in the United States and UK? Yeah. Australia. I asked all the same questions, right. And for me, the reason I’m still here, and I actually moved from Israel, a Middle Eastern country, not too far from where you’re living, by the way, but they have all the downsides of Western countries. high tax I used to pay 35% corporate tax and 20 more.

17:09

In Israel. Yeah. It was really Israel as a de facto western country in terms of your tax regulation. Correct? It is. Yeah, absolutely. Man. So, then I moved out to Canada, because it was safer. Because Israel is always at war. There’s always, you know, terrorist attacks. I mean, not So, as bad as I’d say, as mass shootings in the US. But I mean, it’s pretty frequent. So, you never know, like, you’re gonna be in a restaurant, and all of a sudden, people get shot, like it actually happens, where people get stabbed, or whatever. Like one time it was actually involved in one where a suicide bomber exploded himself on a security guard.

17:46

And it was like a walking distance, like maybe one minute away from where you are? Where were you, I was in a bus that was just getting into a central bus station. And there’s a part to the right of where we’re coming in. It’s like a tiny little strip mall, but like, it’s really, really narrow. So, you sort of pass through it to get to the city buses on the other side. So, on that side, the suicide bomber exploded. Now what’s really interesting, I was supposed to go to the other side. So as soon as I would get off the bus, I would walk to that side. And a de facto, where he exploded was about, I don’t know, maybe 17 meters away from where I was supposed to be standing at a bus stop waiting for my city bus to catch the bus to where I was going. So, I really got lucky. I mean, if we hit a few green lights on the way to the central station, I could have been standing there.

18:45

So that was like, there was bad. But that was the reality of life in Israel, ask anyone they just accepted that this is the reality and just live their life normal. But I didn’t like the idea. So, we moved out to Canada, much safer. That’s the first thing we noticed, like in Israel, as soon as you land, you can cut the tension with a knife. Everybody’s yelling, and people are angry. And, you know, you really have to be like, on alert, you know, like, I don’t know, I remember John Carlton I think said something about Marines living on, like, they have three or four colors and you know, red color, yellow color green color, where it’s like relaxed and on alert, etc. So, you know, we were like, always DEFCON five, you know, it was so Canada’s safer. But then I started seeing very much similar issues with taxes and regulations and this and that. The only thing that’s better in Canada for us than Israel is the banking system, the ability to get merchant processing for what we do. That’s I mean, that’s still better than what we used to have in Israel. But it’s, you know, it’s a lot, it’s a lot more expensive. And you know, for now that I have my passport, it took us five years.

20:00

Here’s the password. So, we’re citizens now, I am considering a move. But you know, I’ve never really truly considered the countries you named because my concern is having two kids as there is the infrastructure and facilities for the children and community. So, I have no knowledge of how that looks. I actually need to go and live there for six months as an experiment. But that’s really been my biggest concern. If I have kids, is it really for me to go out and move there? You have two kids, right? Yeah. 10 and four, how old are they? Say 10? And four?

20:36

Yeah, so the general advice is that first you go to a new country or been to for a week or two, if you can do it. You have to bring your kids and just see if you like the vibe, because you’ll know in a week if you would live there or not.

20:52

Many years ago, I was considering moving to Argentina, Buenos Aires. This is long before anyone there so I should check it out. And I went to Buenos Aires for a week and I really liked it. I really enjoyed the visit. Um, so I could never live here. No way. It’s too chaotic. That’s actually when I found Paraguay back. Oh my god, I fell apart. It was expected. So then if you like it, then yes, if you can do it. If your wife has done it, you go there. You’re right. You go there for a few months with your kids and see how that works. Plus, if you have kids, you’re right. You want infrastructure. It’s like you and I have talked about Panama. So, Hong Kong is like the Latin version of Hong Kong. It’s crazy. Right? Panama sea is my favorite season. And it’s got all that stuff. Dubai to Dubai is expensive. But then yeah, you have to keep up the higher echelons like I said, if you have kids, it raises the bar in terms of complexity a little bit. Mikey, I have kids who have grown. And I actually waited. But I couldn’t do this. I couldn’t actually make sense to do this years ago. And America was a lot less bad than it is now. I waited for others out of the country when my kids were older. But today if I had little kids, I wouldn’t wait. I mean, to your point. If it was for Israel’s violence, I think it was two or three years ago. So, I left the I’d say to do that was 21. I think this was maybe a year for a left. These I don’t remember what this was. It wasn’t during the lockdowns, the pandemic, but it’s around there. My mom and my daughter, my mom was going to take my daughter to the mall, go shopping. And that day at the mall, there was a mass shooting. A guy with a gun shot four or five people at the very same Mall. And we’re gonna go within three hours of when they would have arrived. If they had gone three hours earlier. Three hours later, they would have been in a mass shooting in just the United States. And it’s Clackamas Town Center, you google this Clackamas Town Center, mass shooting, like Guy God. So, your thing about everyone being on the edge in Israel, Canada’s a little better than this, the United States that the United States where I’m from, that’s how people are now especially on the west and east coasts, in the Midwest, where the towns are smaller. It’s not quite the case. But Portland, Seattle, Los Angeles, San Diego, San Francisco, New York, Atlanta, even in places like Miami, people aren’t edge people cast off, there is now regular civil unrest in American cities. I’ve told Americans if you want to, and I’m an American, I don’t consider myself an American anymore. But if you want to stay in America for the rest of your life, you just have to do what you just said, you have to just get accustomed to increasing violence and increasing civil unrest in the cities. If you want to move out in the rural areas in the middle of nowhere that might work provided other factors. But if you’re gonna live anywhere in the United States, and then you go to places like the place I talked to in Armenia, Dubai, South America, you don’t have that problem. A you don’t have violence. If you pick the country quickly, people aren’t mad all the time.

23:47

Why aren’t people mad? People are smiling, having a great time here in Power glide. They’re smiling, they’re happy. They’re laughing. It’s great. It’s such a different environment from the United States and Canada and the UK. A lot of Western Europe is just as bad on top of the fact that taxes are the highest tax, the western world is the highest tax region in the world, in the history of the world. I mean, around 40% minimum, if you look at taxes, you pay in tax, you don’t pay taxes, and then cost of living on top of that you stack all these things. Yeah, the question becomes why are you there and in the end this is just my opinion. The only reason it would make sense to stay in Canada, USA for the long term, is if you’re at the ultra-rich if you’re worth hundreds of millions of dollars, if you’re like of Alex or Mozi level, and you just don’t care, because if you pay 50% taxes, you don’t care, okay, I only made 200 million this year, whatever, then I guess fine. Go ahead. But if you’re not at that level, why? That’s what my deal was, why am I here? Why am I paying these taxes? Why do those angry people? Why do I see I lived in Portland, Oregon with a word which is now in the worst cities and states. They’re still similar as just regular there, plus the homeless problem on the entire east coast of Western United States in Portland, Oregon.

25:00

Just 20 years ago it was always the one, two or third top livable cities in the United States, in some cases the world. And now it’s the worst and that’s what most cities are happening. It used to be just Detroit. People talk about oh, Detroit was so great now it’s now this horrible shithole that’s becoming most American cities. The United States is collapsing, it’s slowly collapsing, but it’s collapsing. I would rather live somewhere that was either stable or rising. So, Dubai is rising, they’re moving their hardest. Why is rising par wise, the very low end of the economic scale, but every time I go to Paraguay, when I take that ride from the airport to my hotel, or my Airbnb or whatever, I’m gonna probably get an apartment in July. You have less trash, the streets improve, nicer buildings are going up. It’s improving every time you come. Every time I visit the United States, it’s noticeably worse. There’s more trash on the streets, there’s more homelessness streets, people are more pissed off. The roads are just terrible. Like the roads of Los Angeles, I’ve only been to Los Angeles lately. They’re like a third world country. It’s like part one in Los Angeles, but you’re paying half your income and tax for Third World infrastructure. What’s the point? I don’t get it. Unless you have again, I’ve talked with this unless you have small kids. So, you’re in that one area where there are small kids. I have small children. That’s about an excuse. That’s something to think about, especially guys who are divorced. And they have small kids with baby mama and baby mamas. Those guys are kind of stuck. But everyone else either if you don’t have kids, or in my case, you have grown kids. I don’t see the point anymore. I don’t get it. But it’s so easy these days.

26:39

Yeah, I was in London a few weeks back and asked my daughter if she liked it. She said she liked it very much. And I asked her what it was like to move there? Because the vibe is great. And I mean, it really ticks lots of boxes for me. But of course, it’s the same with high taxes and everything else. But at least you like it there, you know? So, she says, no, I don’t want to move there. I said why? She says I don’t want to lose my progress here. Basically, you know, she’s 10. And she feels like her friends are here and the communities here, which I completely understand. Because when my parents made the decision to move from Ukraine to Israel, I was I think it was 10. And we managed to get the whole process done in about two years. So, two months before I turned 12, We moved. And my biggest fear was that I’m not going to make any new friends in this new place. And I had to go and learn a whole new language. And I mean, it’s like a right to left sort of language. I mean, you live in Dubai. So, you’ve seen the right?

27:38

Yeah, it’s so it’s, they’re very similar, by the way. So, it’s just terrifying to me. But seeing what’s going on in Ukraine right now.

27:48

I look back and I’m just like, Man, that was a good decision, they made a really good decision to move. Right. And these countries, I mean, Zimbabwe, and Venezuela, we could list all these countries that were pretty good. Until one day, something happened. And so, the so for example, during the pandemic, so I’ve been preaching location dependent income loss stuff to my audience for 50 years, and a lot of them don’t have a lot of them are corporate jobs, and they’re trying to make that transition in our world location dependent accompanies the norm, or for a lot of normal human beings. It’s not, unfortunately, setting post pandemics a little better. But anyway, during the pandemic,

28:26

I had guys who were stuck in Italy, Italy had really bad lockdowns, and it’s horrible. And I guy in Italy, say, Oh, my God, I’m stuck. You’ve been screaming at us for great art on location and income and have an international backup plan for years and years. I’ve seen your YouTube videos, your emails, your blog posts, I didn’t take any action on it. And now you’re right, I’m screwed. This sucks. I hate being here. I wish I could leave and I can’t.

28:52

And so that’s why international backup plans these days, where the entire western civilization is on its way down. It doesn’t make sense to not at least have a backup plan. And the model you follow ideally is where can you be in 72 hours?

29:08

So that’s one of the things I have is where I can be incept. So, I could be here in Paraguay within 48 hours from Dubai. I can be in the United States. And I really wanted to be in Mexico within 24 hours. I can be in Armenia within 12 hours from Dubai. Something terrible is happening in Dubai, I mean, I’m not planning anything horrible happening. It’s why I picked that country. But if something happened, where could you be in 72 hours, that means your feet are on the ground in the knot, you’re leaving in 72 hours, your feet are on the ground in 72 hours, where can you be at the answer is? Well, you should pick an option, at least have the option which is not that difficult. Moving out of the country is one thing, the same international plan B is not that bad. Yeah, yeah, you’re right. You know, there’s another element that people don’t consider. I think they think about it, they just don’t realize how important it is.

29:56

The other day I was looking into some solutions for back pain and the one thing that I really hate about Canada even though it’s So, trumped for its, you know, free health care and stuff, like when it comes to saving your life, I think that’s great. Free health care is always great. But when it comes to actually treating anything that’s not killing you right now, it is pretty bad. Like, I’ve had chronic back pain for a long, long time. And that the, you know, the, the system doesn’t offer me a solution. It took me like a year and a half to get an MRI. And I actually had to go and lie through my teeth as far as what the symptoms were. So, they take me seriously, I actually had to go to a chiropractor that I got assigned to, and they were like, you know, putting needles into me and shocking me with electric shocks, and I had to make my food jingle and, and, you know, basically tell him that I don’t really, did you have the option of paying for your own MRI? Oh, no, no. And that’s the most frustrating, ridiculous, I don’t get it. They won’t let me I’m just like, I can pay like, let me pay to go somewhere.

31:08

No, but they won’t let you. And so anyway, I certainly can, so I finally got the MRI. I did the MRI, I took the MRI to a surgeon. And the surgeon basically told me Look, you have the spinal thing happening. You got this thing happening. But you know what, you should just live with it. We’re not gonna operate on you. We’re not going to. I just wanted to live.

31:32

That was literally what he said to me like in these exact words. Yeah, trying to do some physical therapy. Yeah, Doc, I’ve been doing physical therapy for three years. It’s not really helping. Yeah, maybe do some stretches, some yoga and try not to do your favorite sports that you really like and do you sit for long periods of time for your work? Like yes, like well, he I try not to sit and try to take walks every time.

31:55

So, I started looking into stem cells. And from all the research, I’ve been kind of reading about all the studies and all the it’s just everyone’s loving it. Now the problem was stem cells that you can really do in Canada. And from what I gather, you can do most stem cell procedures in the United States, except for a couple specific ones. So yes, one stem cell, Panama. Yeah, not just Panama. So, you start researching this stuff. And you got Panama Colombia.

32:30

Yeah, all kinds of countries that now have this medical tourism set up where you know, you just go there, they pick you up, there’s big clinics, and it’s got state of the art, everything. You do the MRIs and the injections and everything. And I’m looking at that, as if we end up in a position where the most advanced and modern civilized Western countries with the highest quality of life won’t treat conditions. And then we have to pay five figures multiple five figures in amounts of money to fly out to a shithole country, basically on paper that has all the best facilities that are able to treat us and make us healthy again. That’s ridiculous. One of my mentors is Dan Kennedy. And years ago, in the 90s, he gave a speech, it was a business speech to a business marketing guy. And he had to do we love we love Dan Kennedy on the show. Oh, yeah. I’m a big Dan Kennedy fanboy. Yeah, he’s one of the OG Yeah, hell yeah. And he’s also a genius. He doesn’t look or act like a genius. That’s why he kind of under the radar with that stuff. But he said it I met; I have the recording when he said it. He said, this is the 90s. He said, “This is going to work. In our lifetimes, there’ll be two categories of people. And there are only two and you have to pick which one you’re in, in terms of healthcare. Number one, people who know who pay for what they want, and it’ll be expensive, and they get it. That’s category number one. So that’s a small percentage. Category number two people who wait in line, and it’s gonna be a long, long line, like, it’ll be like a bread line and communist Soviet Union. And that’s it, he goes, so you’re gonna have a scenario where you’re gonna have to make six figure income, just to get quality health care now again, in the Western world. I’m in Dubai. And so, a lot of health care there is literally world class best in the world. And it’s not that expensive. Like when I go to the dentist you want, I’ve had this on my Instagram. It looks like a castle. You’re like this boy with these fountains. And it’s like seven receptionists and it costs the same price as in the United States. It’s the same price and the level of services, the computers they use on your teeth, the advice you get is so much better. So right. That’s just another symptom of the collapsing western world in which we all live. Yeah, and considering that you’ve got what now every day you’ve got 10,000 people to

35:00

In 65, in the United States, right? Can you imagine what sort of crisis we’re heading into a mess, if this is gonna get worse and worse. That’s why I left in 2021. So, I started thinking about this in 2003. And then, in 2012, I made the decision to leave. I said, I’ll wait till whatever year 2025 When my kids are older, because my last kid, we left the house in 2008, you had this all mapped out in a spreadsheet. So, the plan for many years was I will lead the United States in 2025.

35:31

Then 2,020k, I saw the pandemic and problem number one, then I saw in the United States the Floyd riots, the summer of 2020, where people were, you know, burning down people’s apartment buildings and things like that. And not only Dyson, the riots because I’ve seen that happening, I state before, but it was the entire country. And then both sides of the political spectrum, United States, you have the left and the right, both sides. We’re talking crazy. So, the left was saying, well, you know, sometimes you have to burn down people’s houses and smash people’s cars who have nothing to do with it, who actually agree with you, because no one else listens. Anything else. I’m like, what, then you have people on the right, where you have these videos of these cops like, like knocking down seven-year-old men and cracking their schools open on the sidewalk, you have police officers driving into protesters, you have police officers shooting rubber bullets at reporters who are doing nothing to standing and talking on camera doing on purpose. And the people right would say, well, yeah, you got to do that. Because law and order, you have to shoot rubber bullets at reporters and drive over protesters and you know, not, and I’m saying what size of the whole country is going in saying we have these crazy lockdowns, we have increasing violence, and then there’s no political answer anymore. That’s why I told my wife, this is Summer of 2020. I’m not waiting until 2025 is going to be so bad here. We’re out of here next year. And so, February 2020. ones

36:51

because it got worse and worse. And it’s going to keep getting candidates. Do you guys have a lot of problems in Canada, and they’re going to do it’s not a fixable problem anymore? I’m not gonna get political but these are not it is mathematically impossible to fix these problems. You know, 20-3040 years ago, you could vote for certain people and make certain reforms and fix things. You’re way past that in the United States. I call it the collapsing Trifecta of the United States, Canada and Europe, particularly Western Europe. These are not fixable countries anymore. Unfortunately. There were. No, you really have a point. You know, it’s a bit like

37:25

the advice I heard from Dan Kennedy, incidentally, about copywriting. You know, sometimes what most times it’s easier to write a new copy, new piece than to try and fix an old one that doesn’t work. So

37:38

and you know, you could have the United States Canada back in the 90s. But people chose not to, and that we’re No, way past that window, you there’s no one you can vote for. There’s no protest you can make. There’s no political party you can vote for, this is just how it’s going to be. So, you stay in these countries and get you know, screw and taxes and cost of living and just watch your country get worse every year. And that’s if that’s your decision. That’s fine. I’m an individualist or you leave or the Behrman seven international backup plan. So, when your country gets so bad, you can stand it, you say no problem, boom, and within a week, you’re there. And then you’re come to residency, you got an apartment, you got a bank account there, you’re good to go. At a minimum, you do that? Just not yet. That’s a good point. Look, we’re coming on time. I know you have a lot; you produce a lot of stuff. You’re really prolific.

38:29

Can you tell us a little bit more about where we can go and find out more about how we can, you know, get some more of that location independent income and independence and general advice. I know he’s also a show for men, which I really enjoy. So just feel free to use this as an opportunity to absolutely shamelessly plug your stuff. Sure. So, the easiest place to go is calebjones.com, And there you can get a location dependence toolkit, where I cover five flags in business. From a beginner’s perspective. It’s all free. And I have videos there. And what we do there is we help you do two things. We help you set up a business. We don’t do affiliate marketing, because that’s what you

39:17

I want to be a coach consultant. If you want to market some sort of service, we help you set up your own location dependent business where you’re making money within 90 days. And that’s kind of phase one of what we help you with. And then phase two is we help you look at international options. Do you want to move? Do you just want to get residency? Do you want to check it out? Do you want a backup plan to help you do all those things? Those two pieces that’s called Sovereign CEO. That’s calebjones.com, then yes, if you’re a guy, I live an interesting lifestyle. It’s called Alpha Male 2.0 is for my book, The Unchained man. It’s one of those bestselling books, and that’s where we teach men how to live a lifestyle of maximum freedom. So, for example, this is just my exam.

40:00

Well, I am married, but it’s a non-monogamous marriage. So, I see other women every week. And it’s totally cool. My wife is totally cool with it and totally fine with it. Just as an example. Plus, we talk about testosterone anti-aging. I’m 50. I don’t think I look 50. So yeah, that’s the crazy part, like those of you who are watching this and not listening to Spotify or something. Like, I was shocked when I discovered that.

40:25

He’s like, it’s like, Dude, you’re old. But you look so young. I’m old. I’m an old man. Yeah. So yeah, as part of that Anti-Aging is a big part of the lifestyle models, we teach over an alpha male 2.0. So yeah, they’re instantly doing that. That’s an alphamale20.com. And the way a lot of resources, that’s just for men, we have a few women customers are curious. But sovereign CEO is for men or women, it doesn’t matter if you’re a woman doesn’t matter, your guy doesn’t matter. If you’re a nine to Five, it doesn’t matter, you’re gonna mess up matters. And frankly, all my content, your content, all my content is under the umbrella of maximum long-term freedom. So, you need a freedom-based lifestyle, and you will see freedom-based finances, which means your income internationalizing, and then your personal life, your health, all that stuff. So, we cover all the bases. So that’s first, let me sum it up really quickly. So, you can check out calebjones.com, which I’m assuming will link out to all your different resources, but on calebjones.com, you’ve got the sovereign toolkit.

41:26

Where that kind of gives you the basics. So, what it means to be independent, both in terms of income and in terms of asset protection.

41:34

You can also check out Caleb’s podcast, there’s two podcasts the sovereign CEO, that’s for the asset protection or different locations where you want to head out to,

41:46

and internationalizing that’s the word. And the other podcasts you can check out is the alpha male 2.0 podcast, you can obviously get it on all your favorite platforms, or you can just go to alphamale20.com. And that’s the podcast of how I actually found Caleb, because he has this great episode where he just breaks down the old Conan the Barbarian movie with Arnold Schwarzenegger. I really love that. So basically, if you’re tired over the world around you, it’s kind of judging you for being a man. Right? So obviously, I’m speaking to men right now. If this is really Alpha like this is this week with alpha energy, like crazy. So, I really like that. But you know, I say that because I’ve seen alpha male podcasts before. And they don’t really hit me the same way. Not every alpha male podcast makes sense. But yours does. I don’t know why. It just So, makes so much sense to me and the things you choose to discuss too. Yeah, most guys today border on being angry and emotional. And yeah, happiness being a happy guy. We’d like women, women are if we enjoy women, we protect ourselves against the problems like I have a prenuptial agreement, my marriage and things like that I take the basic precautions that those guys would take. But I focus on being happy, because that’s the point of life. The reason you’re here is to experience long term consistent happiness as much as you can. And if you’re screaming and ranting about feminists all day, Red Pill stuff. And so those guys, my friends, I love these guys. It’s harder to be happy. So, I tried to focus on happiness and using objective reality to help you achieve that. Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. And by the way, your alpha male again, I’m more excited about the alpha male 2.0 podcast because maybe because I’m still younger. I’m still trying to figure out that part of my life. But a lot of years, you know, advice I use in my marriage. Like I’m long term married. I’ve been married as long as I’ve been making location independent income, actually. But a lot of what you like because you have an open, they’re like, non-monogamous marriage. Because you went through a divorce because you’ve lived a longer life. Your perspective on it makes a lot of sense. Like there’s one episode. I think where you were breaking down, that you will there’s always going to be something that annoys you in your wife and vice versa. Yes. And you just have to find someone who is annoying. You just can live with that. You can find someone who’s not going to be annoying in some way. Yeah. So, it’s kind of like this then Kennedy like nuggets of wisdom for marriage. And because then Kennedy is probably not the best marriage, you know, advice giver, right? He’s been divorced, remarried to the same wife, etc. So, anyway, guys, check out Caleb Jones, Google him and get on YouTube. He’s very active on YouTube. He’s very active on the podcast. He also has the book The Unchained man, which I did not read, but you should check it out. Why not? So go check it out. And yeah, Caleb, thank you for taking the time out of your trip to sit down with

45:00

Man records this podcast I’ve had tremendous pleasure hosting. No problem. You’re a great guy. Love your stuff. Fantastic happy beer.

45:10

Thank you for listening to the list building lifestyle, get access to the previous episode’s transcript of today’s show, as well as other exclusive content at listbuildinglifestyleshow.com. Also remember to claim your free copy of my bestselling book at www.igorsbook.com. It explains how I made millions with list building starting from scratch. Plus, I’ll give you $3,000 worth of free bonuses, including my best landing page templates, email, swipe files and traffic blueprints. Go to www.igorsbook.com Now to claim your free package