Sigmund Freud School of List Building

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Hi, my name is Igor Kheifets and this is the List Building Lifestyle, the only podcast which delivers cutting edge conversion strategies from the online trenches straight to your earbuds. Download the transcript of today’s episode and all future episodes at listbuilidnglifestylesshow.com. I also invite you to grab a free copy of “The Wealthy List Builder’s Survival Guide” at lifebuilidnglifestyleshow.com/survival and now once again it’s time to claim your List Building Lifestyle.

Jonathan: Welcome back List Builders to another edition of List Building Lifestyle with the coffee shop entrepreneur, Mr. Igor Kheifets. What is up, man?

Igor: Hey Jonathan, we’re recording in our coffee shop today and look to apologize there’s going to be noise but I just couldn’t stand staying in my home office for a second longer.

Jonathan: And this is it, you not only talk about this lifestyle, you live it. You’re working at a coffee shop. How about that?

Igor: Well, I mean it looks glamorous on the outside of course but looking in if you know that back story, you wouldn’t be jealous I’m sure.

Jonathan: [laughter] So what do you have in store for us today, Igor?

Igor: Well, today I want to talk about the one thing that can really change a business. There are not too many things out there, not too many concepts that can but this one I believe can totally change the way you sell and can transform you from being really a crappy closer to being an outstanding one. Of course, I talk about scarcity.

Jonathan: Yeah, well it’s interesting because here’s what I don’t tell you, I don’t give you enough credit, Igor, because I record shows with you and it’s like I’m providing you a service but every time you teach me something I use it. So one of the things that we talked about while back was how you said people wouldn’t buy unless there was some form of scarcity and I was noticing that I wasn’t getting the close ratios that I should be getting and I implemented a scarcity play like you have taught me where I will listen to the conversation find out something that they are really looking for and create a bonus on the call that they can only get if they sign up right now. [laughter]

Igor: Well.

Jonathan: And that thing has really increased my close ratios.

Igor: Oh yeah, John Carlton used to say, “You should stomp on their greed glands until blood comes out of their ears.”

Jonathan: Wow!

Igor: So people’s greed is really a powerful motivator and again I know that most of the things that we mention on this show aren’t glamorous but we talk from experience and you know never underestimate the power of that stuff.

Jonathan: Yeah so, I’m looking forward to it. I’m looking forward to gleaning more from you.

Igor: Yeah so anyway, the example or the kind of source of information here is actually not sales at all although every single sales book, a decent one, talks about scarcity and I first learned scarcity from Dan Kennedy as he explains that in order to move people and prevent them from using barriers and excuses such as time and money like “I can’t afford it” or “I don’t have the time right now” or “I have to talk to my wife about this” and stuff like that. You always use scarcity like I just took his word for it but I never studied it until recently that I decided to just look into. I know that scarcity is a powerful concept. I’m curious where this comes from. So believe it or not, the first person to use scarcity was Sigmund Freud, not like he invented it, but he consciously started using it in order to help people. Here’s how. He was the first guy ever to start doing psychoanalysis and psycho treatments with his patients. He really got serious into that whole thing and so he noticed that some patients went for years without any improvement. I’m talking well not crazy people but people who had problems, issues that simply would not change in anyway, would not make an inch of progress for years. Now obviously to anyone who cares about their work, this was frustrating to Freud because some patients would miraculously just turn around and become normal again and others would just refuse. So he tested this, I’m not sure how he came up with the idea but I’m really grateful that he did because it truly changed the course of history for the marketing industry and for the sales industry from that point forward that he inflicted scarcity. So what he has done is he started to take on patients, Jonathan, and he said that the psychoanalysis treatment course is going to last from X to Y. In other words, he said look we’re starting an eight week course or we are starting I don’t know whatever we’re going to be working together until June 1 st by that time I expect for you to get better. He did this with the patients that would not give him the satisfaction of results for years and years. So eventually what ended up happening as soon as they got close to the deadline, the patients almost miraculously recovered just in time to the fixed deadline.

Jonathan: Really?

Igor: Yes. This is the most insane thing I’ve ever heard but it proves that the human brain is a tricky animal and it works in ways that even the human being himself or herself cannot identify but the one tool that we now know for a fact and obviously it’s been tested now thorough decades and decades and decades in many different industries that scarcity makes you take action, it makes you change, it makes you improve yourself, it makes you do things you would otherwise delay doing unconsciously.

Jonathan: You know what I’m thinking about now? See I just have a catalog of all your shows in my head and one of the things you talked about was your best clients are the ones that are about to have a kid. Times running out, scarcity right? Better act now. [laughter]

Igor: Oh for sure, for sure. Some of my greatest success stories were the ones that are constantly working against some sort of deadline. You know for the most part it was the kid, right. It was the great day when one becomes a father or mother. On other occasions, it would when a self-employed person would have their contract run out or something like that. All sorts of different situations but these situations make you do stuff. You know for example, I was closing a deal, not closing a deal, but hiring a lawyer for the thing I got going on and it’s not an urgent thing but it’s a life changing thing for sure. So I spoke to the lawyer, very nice lady. She quoted me the price. The price was right for me. She sent me the papers. Now guess Jonathan, how long did it take me to sign the papers?

Jonathan: Not long, was there a deadline? Wait was there a deadline?

Igor: Well actually there was no deadline.

Jonathan: Oh it took you awhile.

Igor: Yeah, yeah. She kind of assumed I was going to do it because I was really open on the call and so I waited for 60 days before I signed the damn papers.

Jonathan: Whoa!

Igor: For 60 days, simply because there was no deadline and it wasn’t until I realized that I’m procrastinating because there is no deadline. I actually had to invent a sort of a deadline in my mind by sitting down and future pacing myself into what’s going to happen if I don’t hire this lady with my life not only with my life but my family’s life as well. So by creating this painful deadline, in my mind, that I basically told me – look you have to take action asap or things are just not going to change and your life is going to suck. I sat down and I filled out 12 pages worth of paper work on my own without the help of this lawyer lady, signed everything, scanned and faxed and did whatever I had to do to seal the deal.

Jonathan: That’s crazy. Sixty days! [laughter] No wonder people can’t get folks to take action on their offers if they don’t have a deadline.

Igor: Yeah, I mean, Jonathan, obviously, let’s not pretend like you might say Igor look but one thing is when you hire a lawyer and lawyers are expensive and you’re trying to make a life changing decision. Another thing is when you’re trying to sell a $49 business opportunity or whatever and people don’t action. It’s not the same thing. It’s not the same consequence because it’s very little money. It’s only 49 bucks. It’s not life changing because you can purchase it and nothing is going to happen. To which I would say that it might not seem to us as if it’s a life changing decision but to the client every single buying decision they make is a life changing one. Especially in the business opportunity space which is full of AFOS which is a concept, an acronym I learned from Noah St. John, a friend of mine who’s a strategic abundance coach if you will, so AFOS stands for Average Frustrated Opportunity Seeker which is the way that most people operate in the home-based business space up until about three to five years into their presence online. Now that’s a lot of time. That’s a really long time. So they sort of see everything as a life changing opportunity even if that opportunity costs $7.

Jonathan: Oh my God.

Igor: Yeah and I know this because one of the questions they asked me before purchasing from me or from my clients is, Igor, or John or Bob or whatever, “I purchased so many things and I’m so tired of jumping from one thing to the next, will this change my life? Will this be that thing that changes my life?” In fact, I was talking to a person today who was about to join my Solo VIP Club which is a $474 per month which is a big investment obviously but they were like man I feel I’m ready for this that I’ve been online for five years and nothing has worked this and this and this and that. He’s a nice guy and everything but again he approached it from the same position of will this change my life if I pay you $474. I had to take him through a different conversation and explain to him that there is no reason for success or failure outside of self which means I can’t really make you succeed and I can’t really make you fail either. It’s only about you. I can be the Morpheus to your Neo. I can show you the door, I can help you believe in yourself, I can help you with the tools, I can load the Jiu Jitsu program into your brain, I can do that but I can’t really make believe and make you dodge a bullet. That’s not going to happen. That’s something you have to do for yourself. So he appreciated where I was coming from, he ended up joining the VIP Club and I’m grateful for him doing that, I’m looking forward to having our first coaching call together but it just goes to show that even after years and years and years of failures and setbacks some people simply don’t learn their lesson and keep treating this as a life changing opportunity regardless of the price tag. That is why there are so timid about making that buying decision even for something as low cost as a $49 program.

Jonathan: Why do you think that is? Why are people looking for answers outside of themselves?

Igor: Well that is actually a build in mechanism, Jonathan. I investigated into it because you know I’m a student of influence. I’m really curious about that stuff and it turns out whenever we are in trouble, we are looking for allies. We are looking for outside help. That is also why a lot of people turn to God in the time of need because the one thing that we know for a fact is that all the churches and all the religions, they usually attract people who are in distress. It might be people who are facing poverty, might be people who are coming out of an environment of crime of some sort, so these people kind of try to seek assistance outside of themselves. Again, I’m not sure how the brain operates and why that happens but that is a natural behavioral pattern for almost all individuals out there. That is why I believe coaching industries exists, Jonathan.

Jonathan: Hmm.

Igor: That is why I believe I hired you to become a partner in this, in the podcasting thing because I, myself, am faced with this huge challenge of starting a podcast so naturally I’m looking for a comrade, I’m looking for an ally that can assist me. So in the same way when we don’t know where to turn, right, we just either blame outside circumstances because it’s easier than trying to explain through our own actions or our own decisions or we go seeking assistance from the outside because we feel helpless in facing this challenge of making money or figuring out a problem or whatever.

Jonathan: Let’s go a level deeper on that and so we’re looking for comrades like you said but why are we looking for them that have that final answer, why is it up to them whether we succeed or fail. Why are people thinking that way?

Igor: Man, I honestly wish I would know. All I know is that they do and all I know is that it is easier I guess to the ego, right, it’s easier to believe that something else or someone else is responsible for the lack of results in our life then to admit to ourselves and look in the mirror and say hey, you’re the fuck up, you’re the screw up.

Jonathan: [laughter]

Igor: Right? I mean incidentally it’s the people who are able to do that, it’s the people who are able to look in the mirror and say I am 100% responsible for the results or lack of results in my life. These are the people that they are able to start thinking definitely and with purpose and change their life. And the people who keep seeking assistance elsewhere who keep putting the responsibility on the shoulders of other people or other circumstance, these people again incidentally never end up achieving their goals.

Jonathan: Gosh, so Igor were you always a type of person that really took charge and took accountability or was that a shift?

Igor: God, no. No, [laughter] I was always the kind of person that blamed life. Even to a point where I would walk down the street and I would see a guy with a pretty girl which was one of the biggest issues in my life to get laid.

Jonathan: [laughter]

Igor: I would be like why do hot chicks always fall the assholes? I would immediately make the other guy an asshole like I don’t even know the guy but he would immediately be an asshole in my eyes because he had the girl and I did not. It was something wrong with the girls who would refuse to pay attention to me and not with me not being actually good enough or high quality enough for the girls to actually feel attracted to me. It was only after like you said that I made that shift as a result of doing a lot of thinking, a lot of work on my own habits and on my own behaviors, it was only after that that I became – I mean obviously I’m not a pussy magnet or anything I mean I’m just normal.

Jonathan: [laughter]

Igor: But I built up enough confidence to actually strike conversations. I became a person of value and I started attracting certain type of girls. Now in my case, these are good Russian girls like the girls that are – well they don’t do drugs or anything like that, they are really well behaving girls and just my type. I seem to have influence on that sort of type of woman which is perfect because that’s how I like them… anyway. You know nice and Russian. So anyway, [laughter]

Jonathan: [laughter] Let’s turn it around now to business. Now when you started in business, I know you had a job and you were doing this on the side. Was there a time where you were also blaming outside circumstances or did you go into it with full accountability because you had that three year gap also?

Igor: Oh yeah for sure, I definitely did not start out feeling responsible for my success. I started out and I was able to secure some free coaching from a lady who recruited me into this network marketing company, GDI. I wholeheartedly felt that I was just supposed to do as I’m told by her and things would happen which incidentally they never did. Now at first I blamed her but then I realized that it was a mistake to do so. I think it was only after I got out of the army where I escaped the army service here in Israel that I took on full responsibility because it was during the army as I was sharing in one of the previous episodes that I discovered that it was up to me to solve my own problems and that circumstances are what they are and the system works the way that it does but it’s up to me to play by the rules of that system or to break the rules of that system or do whatever I had to do to achieve the results that I wanted. The prerequisite for me doing that actually was the belief that I could and the audacity that I’m allowed to.

Jonathan: Man, I’ve taken you way off track. We started with scarcity and deadlines and I’m doing an introspective with Igor here. [laughter] So do you want to bring it back to that: deadlines, scarcity type stuff as we’re coming to a close here?

Igor: Oh yeah, absolutely. Basically, here is my point, most of the business opportunities out there. They are evergreen. So the sale funnels that you’re given by the company don’t have scarcity and if they do have scarcity that scarcity is so weak that the client, the prospect can see right through it. In the marketing world, we call it the “bullshit scarcity”. So the prospect doesn’t like that. The prospect doesn’t like to be lied to. People love to buy stuff but they hate to be sold, right? So if the prospect feels pressured in a way that is not real that usually does not lead to a sale. So even if you have “bullshit scarcity” that’s still not enough, so you have to create scarcity, you have to create circumstance in which the client has to act now or they will lose something. Now there are two ways to it either do it like you Jonathan did it where you came up with the specific bonus that expires at a specific time which in your case I believe was by the end of the call so they had to make a decision on the call which is beautiful that’s the way I would do it. And the second version would be to use external bonuses and basically build an external page that has the bonus listed and use something like websitecountdown.com to put a timer up which remembers the person by IP and the cookie so they can’t really escape it. Right? So this service is a one time fee, I believe it’s like 47 bucks or something. It’s really easy to install. You can install it on any page using JavaScript and it’s so easy, man. You just create a timer and on the page you just state that this bonus expires on such and such date and the reason for the bonus, the reason for this deadline is because you’re interested to work with people who are decisive, who are usually much easier to work with and much more likely to get results than people who are indecisive which is actually 100% true. So by doing so and I can’t believe I just gave it to you for free, guys, honestly. [laughter]

Jonathan: [laughter]

Igor: So by doing this what you’re actually doing is you’re pushing your prospects into a place in their mind where they absolutely have to take action or they lose something and I guess the only fear that is more powerful than the fear of giving you money is the fear of missing out which is another built in fear that we’ve got. It’s the fear of missing out. It’s the fear of losing out and this is what we are playing off on. This is how we prevent people from coming up with a ton of bullshit excuses anytime they are presented with the choice of giving us money in exchange for value. You just appeal to that fear of missing out and watch what happens. They will move forward, I guarantee it.

Jonathan: Good stuff, Igor. So what do you have coming up for us next time?

Igor: Well, you know Jonathan, how we spend most the time either talking about my life or the secrets to persuasion and influence.

Jonathan: Yeah.

Igor: Well, next time, I’m actually interviewing a seven figure earner. He’s somebody who’s like ridiculously successful, built multiple businesses online. I don’t think he has built any MLMs but he definitely built online business opportunities and educational programs and this guy is going to reveal some of his innermost personal productivity secrets. Now I’m not big on productivity and things like that so that is why I use the opportunity to invite him because he is going to really help you find your balance and help you become more productive in the application of all of these persuasion tactics and list building tactics we’ve been sharing with you up until now.

Jonathan: Wow that sounds like a killer episode, looking forward to it. So that is a wrap for List Building Lifestyle. Thank you, List Builders for tuning and thank you Igor for taking us on a little trip down your mind. [laughter] We’ll be back next time.

Thanks for listening to The List Building Lifestyle Show, make sure to subscribe on iTunes or Google Play to never miss an episode because who knows just one conversion tactic we share on the show might double your list and double your business. Download the transcript of today’s episode and all future episodes at listbuilderslifestyleshow.com and don’t forget to claim your complimentary copy of “The Wealthy List Builder’s Survival Guide” at listbuildinglifestylesshow.com/survival. This is Igor Kheifets until next time we talk, have a good one.

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