How Do You Know When It’s Time To Quit Trying?

Here’s several major epochs in my marketing journey.

But there’s one particular period that shaped my life.

It was the micro-era when I got into blogging.

It was a difficult time for me. I struggled to find the time to write. I struggled with technicalities of website building. I struggled with scraping the money together to buy a theme. I plain and simple struggled.


I questioned myself.

Should I keep doing it or is it time to quit?

Am I wasting my time with this whole internet marketing thing or should I continue and try a little bit harder?

What’s the red line and did I cross it yet?

If you feel even remotely the same right now, this new episode is for you


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Hi, my name is Igor Kheifets and this is the List Building Lifestyle, the only podcast
which delivers cutting edge conversion strategies from the online trenches straight to
your earbuds. Download the transcript of today’s episode and all future episodes at I also invite you to grab a free copy of “The Wealthy
List Builder’s Survival Guide” at and now
once again it’s time to claim your List Building Lifestyle.

Jonathan: You are listening to another episode of List Building Lifestyle. Well, I
don't know if it's another, if it's your first time here or it's not another one,
but there's plenty behind it. Igor, how the heck did you get to 152 episodes?

Igor: Not without your help, my friend. But I'm guessing one episode at a time.

Jonathan: [laughter] The grit and persistence it must have taken, the ups and
downs, I'm so damn proud of you man. This is a lot.

Igor: Yeah, it is a lot. And when you take it in a one sitting you look at 152,
you see, "Oh, man. That's a lot of work." But we've done a ton of recording
sessions. And we've had a ton of recording sessions that I screwed up and we had
to reschedule. We've done a lot of work together. And it's been, by the way, well
over a year. I think it's been a year and three months since we started working

Jonathan: Yeah, it has been over a year. So I am happy to be on this journey with
you. Now, what's important here is not our banter, but what you have in store for
the List Builders. So where we at today, Igor?

Igor: Well, I want to share another personal story that I feel will be relevant to
many people listening.

Jonathan: How personal?

Igor: Really personal.

Jonathan: Because we get worried.

Igor: I'm going to get into it. This is going to get uncomfortable for both of us,
my friend.

Jonathan: [laughter] Make it awkward, Igor. Do it. [laughter]

Igor: [laughter] So I want to take you back to the time when I was about eight
months or so into my journey online. And this is where I tried to fake it till I
make it. I tried to do social media marketing. I've created a bunch of fake My
Space profiles for a couple months.

Jonathan: [laughter]

Igor: Now, I think, at this point in my journey, if I'm correct, this part of my
journey, I'm just getting into blogging. I'm deciding that, you know what? I need
to start a blog, and I need to blog every day, post high quality content on my
blog. And this will get attention, this will build me up as a credible authority.
And by doing so, I will generate an audience and make money. Of course, now you
know I was wrong. But at the time, I didn't know that. So I'm just getting into
all that stuff and I'm still working a full time job and, you know, Jonathan?
You'd think that the biggest problem for me at the time would be information
overload or having to write every day, having to find the time to sit down and put
together articles and then edit them and make them look good and mastering
WordPress and trying to understand all of the technical ins and outs of the
business. But you'd be wrong, because the biggest obstacle for me by far was
waking up in the morning and convincing myself that I was doing the right thing.
It was to find the reason to believe that I wasn't wasting my time. It was to find
a reason to believe that I am going to be successful in spite so many things
around me and in my past pointing to the fact that I am likely to remain a
failure. Because at the time, I failed many, many times. I was still, like I said,
working and making minimum wage. I was living with my parents. I was overweight.
And nothing that I've ever tried my life, besides perhaps math, I was really good
at math, nothing... And video games, yeah, that's it.

Jonathan: [laughter]

Igor: But nothing else really worked out for me. And I had to basically, every
single morning, I had to go through this tug of war between a part of me that
said, "Stop it. Just stop it. You're wasting your time. You're wasting your money.
You could be out there trying to get a date or do something useful with your life.
You're just kidding yourself. You are not going to be successful." And of course,
my father, as you know, didn't waste an opportunity to remind me of how that part
of me was right. And the other part of me that said, "No, there has to be a way. I
just haven't tried everything there is to try, or I haven't been told everything
there is that I need to know. Or maybe I just need to keep going in the same
direction and if I keep going for long enough, I will succeed. So constant,
constant tug of war between the doubt and the belief. And so, this tug of war, I
think, is a fundamental part of anyone's journey on their way to becoming
self-employed. Because it's inevitable. It really is inevitable. We tend to base
our future on our past and our present, so if in the past or in the present we
were unsuccessful or we had doubts and failures and setbacks, we tend to believe
that's how it's going to be from now on. And we have to retrain ourselves, because
it does require time and effort and consistency. Because think about it, all these
years depending on how old you are, but let's just say you're 25, so for 25 years
you've conditioned yourself to feel that you're not going to succeed, that you
will fail, that most of the endeavors you've ever tried, they failed you, so any
and every trying in the future is likely to fail again and again and again. And
now, you have to recondition yourself to believe that you will succeed in spite of
having no proof whatsoever that you will. And you have to become the
self-fulfilling prophecy, if you will, and prove to yourself and everybody else
around you that in spite of not having any proof or reason to succeed, you will.
Now, imagine, Jonathan, how difficult that is for somebody with no business
experience and no grit, if you will. Somebody who hasn't developed that skill set

Jonathan: Where do you find that though, Igor? Because if you grow up with the
certain influences, like many of us have grown up with, where money is a problem
and there's a limit to how much you grow, and it's more secure to work for someone
else. Where did you find that influence to break free of that?

Igor: Well, I think the way it starts out is you see somebody who broke out. You
see someone who you know or somebody who you heard of that started out in a
similar situation as you. Or maybe it's just somebody you even knew when you were
a kid who is now a millionaire or something like that, and you say, "Wait a
second. It could be right. I know that guy and he cannot be smarter than me." And
then, you go into the stage where you say, "Oh, he just got lucky. He was at the
perfect place, the perfect time." or "His daddy was rich." or whatever. And so,
that is another stage to go through. But then, you start to question yourself.
You're saying, "Man, but it can't be true. There has to be a way for me to get
rich as well, because a lot of people out there who are rich today weren't rich
when they started." And that's when you start digging through. And so, this is how
the tug of war kind of originates within you. And honestly, I have no idea why it
won't die after a certain amount of failures. I have no idea why a client of mine
who had been trying to make money from home using business opportunities for ten
years, failing, failing, failing constantly, not succeeding anywhere, and still
trying. There's just something about it. There's something noble I guess about
going against all odds, even if there's only just one tiny, tiny, tiny shot of
success. I don't know.

Jonathan: Is that something that would cause you not to take on a client? Or how
would you view that? Because I kind of see that relentlessness as a good thing,
but then I worry, "Ten years and you haven't gotten results. I don't know if I can
help you." So how do you tackle that in your business?

Igor: Well, see. I see a fundamental difference between relentlessness and
stubbornness. Stubbornness, in my opinion, is when somebody insists on doing
things a certain way without changing anything about themselves or the way they're
doing those things, and he keeps getting the same result and he refused to change.
So I call it stubbornness, Einstein said it's the definition of insanity. Now,
relentlessness is when you try something, doesn't work, and then you try a
different way of doing that something. And then, you try another. And then, you
try another. And then, you try another And eventually, by trying everything, you
end up hitting the sweet spot and succeeding. So relentlessness and stubbornness
are two different things, but often, and this is where I agree with you, it is
confusing to me as well, often people are stubborn about trying to make money with
the business opportunities, but not so much as relentless. Because they ignore the
fundamental mistakes they make again and again and again and again. And
oftentimes, it leads to somebody trying for ten years and not succeeding. Because
chances are, if you, in these ten years, if I follow you around with a and a paper
and just write down everything you're doing on daily basis, chances are that I'm
going to spot so many mistakes that you have ignored for ten years that your head
will spin.

Jonathan: Yeah.

Igor: These mistakes, you'll have to fix them if you want to get results. And
usually, again, this was my experience, people who struggle for a decade, they
just ignore these particular mistakes and they're not able to identify them and
they're not fixing them.

Jonathan: Interesting. So the difference between stubbornness and relentlessness,
so the stubbornness might actually not be a good thing, but the relentlessness is
accurate that we've been talking about in the last few shows.

Igor: Yeah, exactly. So of course, again, you have to draw the line between the
two. A lot of people don't understand that line. They think that if they just keep
going the same direction, keep hitting that wall, eventually they'll drill right
through it. But it requires you to get creative about problem solving, not so much
as making yourself do the same thing every day for like a year. So in other words,
while time does play an important part in your success when you're building from
ground up, time in itself does not guarantee success. You can just as easily go
for the next 15 years with no results that you could have gotten in 15 months.

Jonathan: So Igor, I feel like this is a spot where we could talk a little bit
about the importance of mentors and finding mentors. Because if you're not getting
this different perspective at home, you said earlier, then go out and look for a
millionaire friend or look for people who influence you. How do you incorporate
getting a mentor into this process?

Igor: Well, here's the thing about mentors. I never truly realized the importance
of mentors. Although, just like anybody I heard the famous saying, "If you want to
do something then you want to find out the fastest way to do it. Then, find
someone who is already doing it and then ask them to teach you. And that's the
fastest way." I heard that. Okay, I heard that. But I never realized the
importance of mentoring until I went into coaching myself, when I wanted to sell
coaching. And so, my first eight sales calls for my coaching program were a total
disaster. On the first call, I actually spoke to a lady from Ukraine, believe it
or not, who told me, and I quote, "If you're such a great coach, then why don't
you teach me for free and I'll give you money if I make money."

Jonathan: [laughter]

Igor: I remember that conversation really well because she was from Ukraine and we
spoke in Russian too. I thought that it's a good idea, which actually it was. Ever
since I don't really, even if I'm speaking to a Russian, insist we speak English
when it comes to business.

Jonathan: Really?

Igor: Yeah. It just keeps that dynamic going. Because the moment we change the
language and all of the sudden we become friends, then I cannot be their mentor. A
mentor by default has to be a little bit higher on that pedestal then the student,
otherwise it's not a mentor-student relationship. So anyway, my first eight calls
were a disaster. I haven't sold a single package and I was only wanting to get...
Okay, Jonathan? I really didn't ask for much. I only wanted $800 for a lifetime
membership program.

Jonathan: Wow. Really?

Igor: It's not much. Just by today's prices, that's not much at all.

Jonathan: [laughter]

Igor: But I couldn't. So then, I spoke to somebody who I considered to be one of
my mentors, John Cornetta and he's really experienced business owner. Right now,
he's doing a lot of business and e-commerce. A hardcore guy. Basically I said,
"John, look, I've got a problem I don't know who I can consult with and you are
the best marketer I know and you know everything. So maybe you can help me." He's
just like, "Sure. Okay." And he was always like that. He would always give you
free advice not ask anything in return. Because he's that kind of guy. And he
says, "You know what? Do this." And he basically tells me what to do. Next call I
do, I close the sale. And I'm like, "Oh, my God. It worked." Next call, I close
the sale.

Jonathan: Wow.

Igor: For the next week I doubled my prices and they kept closing at the same

Jonathan: Wow.

Igor: Within the next two months I quadrupled my prices. And my closing rate went
down just by 30%. So later, I got in the Skype call with him and I said, "John,
look, I'm just speechless. I don't know what to tell you. I'm really grateful for
you to kind of point out my mistake, especially since it was such a small mistake.
I only made a tweak to my pitch. I added three lines, removed five lines. That's
all I did. And I wouldn't be able do it because of you. And it's so funny because
it's such a minor detail." He said, "Yeah, that's because when you're stuck in the
picture, you can see the frame."

Jonathan: Yeah.

Igor: I'm sorry, when you're in the frame, you can't see the picture. So in order
to see the full picture you need to step out of it. But you can't because it's
your picture, you're in it. You are the picture, so you need somebody looking from
the outside, who obviously has the experience and the brains necessary, who can
tell you what you're doing wrong, even if all you're doing wrong is just saying
one thing that you're not supposed to be saying.

Jonathan: Oh, man. I can't tell you how many times it has helped me to talk to
someone who thought bigger than me, because that's exactly it. I get caught inside
my frame all the time and I can't tell the difference. I'm just doing work. So
that outside perspective is incredibly valuable. And so, I have a quick follow up
on that, because there was a while where you were doing $15-20-25,000 packages.
What made you back up off that?

Igor: Honestly? My family. You see, when I took on the coaching project I really
wanted to become great. Just like in anything that I do. And I couldn't do a
half-ass job of it, but the coaching program became so demanding that in between
that and my traffic agency I had no time left for my family. Now, it may be
because I wasn't really smart with my time. But what happened in the real life is
I completely neglected my family.

Jonathan: Ouch.

Igor: So that led to an almost divorce, although the word 'divorce' was never
spoken, but you could read that between the lines. And I eventually stepped down
from the coaching scene, even though I gave up a really lucrative income, really
lucrative income. In fact, I think I made 1.3 million with coaching in the first
12 months of doing it.

Jonathan: Wow.

Igor: So it was a really good income, but I stepped down from it because my family
was important and honestly Jonathan, I felt like a hypocrite because I've always
told my wife that I'm building this business up to have a lifestyle, that I build
this business up to be there for my kids, to be there for my family, to be a good
family man. So me wanting to become a good family man was always the purpose
behind becoming a good business man. So the coaching got in the way of that and I
had to choose. I had to get rid of one of them. Do I get rid of the traffic agency
or do I get rid of the coaching? Now, so what happens, then in the coaching I
could not outsource myself. I couldn't step down from the coaching and for the
coaching program to still operate as it's supposed to operate, because otherwise
it's not a coaching program it's a course.

Jonathan: Yeah.

Igor: You can't really sell a $15,000 information product. You can't really sell a
$15,000 webinar course. Although some people do it, I don't feel right doing it.
Because paying 15 grand for a series of eight webinars is just not the right thing
to do, for me, personally. Although, the information may be valuable, but still,
if I'm paying 15 grand, I expect to have direct access to that brain that I want
to consult at any given point of night and day.

Jonathan: Yeah.

Igor: So I chose to keep the traffic business because it didn't require me to be
in it 24/7 to run. And that's what I've done. I gave this up, I stepped down and
instead I started working on creating more systems within the business to create
the growth I needed without investing more hours into it.

Jonathan: So here's something that I'm going to shine a light on for the listeners
and even for you, Igor. You chose your family over that really lucrative income.
And so, every time that I seem to be asking you personal questions, I seem to be
going too far, it's to shine the light on family value that you have. And that's
the reason why you and I are friends, that's the reason why I consider you a
mentor, even though you are younger than me. [laughter]

Igor: [laughter]

Jonathan: That's the reason I do that. And when we share those little bits, it
makes other people resonate with you at your core values.

Igor: Well, I guess you're not wrong. [laughter]

Jonathan: The opportunity came up and I had to seize it, okay? [laughter] Alright.
So anything you want to say in closing?

Igor: Well, yeah. I just want to say that you will never have enough reasons to
believe that you will succeed in anything. Anything new that you're ever going to
get into you'll have way more proof that you will fail then that you will succeed.
And so, your job, as the person who's driving that vehicle or steering that ship,
is to almost go on blind faith sometimes and to become a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Because that's how it usually is. Look at, say, Elon Musk. The guy did not know
whether or not he's going to succeed with SpaceX, or whether or not he's going to
make Tesla the new flagship electro-vehicle or whatever. But he did. And he had to
give up a lot, including his family, by the way. I think he got divorced in the
process, he had to foreclose his home. He had to make a ton of different
sacrifices that I personally would not have been willing to make with just trying
to achieve that goal. So he became a self-fulfilling prophecy at all costs, with
having way more proof that he will fail and he will never succeed, even though he
came in with tons and tons of experience. So that's my point. You are just
starting out, you've been in it for like a year, it's really difficult and you're
still kind of going back and forth with yourself. "Should I keep doing it? Should
I quit? Is my spouse right to tell me that I'm wasting my time? Are my friends
laughing at me and I should just stop giving them a reason to? Or should I keep
going, even though I have no clue if I'm going to succeed?" Well, yeah. You should
keep going. Because whether or not you will succeed has a lot to do with what you
believe you can do. So whatever your future holds has lots to do with what you
believe it will hold. And as a rule, successful people are self-fulfilled
prophecies. That is just the nature of the game we're playing.

Jonathan: Yeah, it reminds me how sometimes you're motivated by either the carrot
or the stick and that whole stick thing is, "I'm going to prove these people
wrong. You wait and see." So I lived that way, I know you lived that way, and I
know our List Builders, if they're not already living that way, they want to. So
thank you for sharing that with us, Igor. Thank you List Builders for tuning in.
And we will be back in your ear buds next time.

Thank you for listening to The List Building Lifestyle Show, make sure to
subscribe on iTunes or Google Play to never miss an episode because who knows just
one conversion tactic we share on the show might double your list and double your
business. Download the transcript of today’s episode and all future episodes at and don’t forget to claim your complimentary copy
of “The Wealthy List Builder’s Survival Guide” at .
This is Igor Kheifets until next time we talk, have a good one.

This is the

Who Is Igor Kheifets

Igor Kheifets is the 3rd highest-earning super-affiliate in the internet marketing niche.

Igor’s 2-step system has helped him consistently rank as the highest-earning and the highest-converting (measured in commissions earned per click) for industry’s leading vendors including but not limited to Matt Bacak, John Crestani and Anthony Morrison.

Igor boiled down success in affiliate marketing to a set of predictable easy steps anyone can take to generate commissions.


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