How to Think Like a Billion-Dollar Copy Strategist With Stefan Georgi

I’m Igor Kheifets, and this is The ListBuilding Lifestyle. The podcast is for anyone who wants to build a wildly profitable email list working from home. If you’d like to make six figures, travel the world and help people improve their lives in the process, this podcast is for you. I also invite you to claim a free copy of my best selling book, The List Building Lifestyle Confessions of an Email Millionaire at www.igorsbook.com. Get the free book plus $3,000 bonus package that includes my best capture page templates, email swipe files and traffic blueprints, visit www.igorsbook.com for details, And now it’s time to claim your List Building

[0:52] Igor Kheifets:
Welcome back to the ListBuilding Lifestyle. I’m your host, Igor Kheifets, and today I’m hosting a world class copywriter who makes the rest of us look like we’re writing grocery lists with crayons.

Of course, I’m talking about none other than Stefan Georgi. Or Georgi depends on your upbringing, because I’m from Eastern Europe, so we would probably say Georgi in this case.

Stefan has accidentally, obviously in parentheses, generated over a billion dollars in sales with his copy for himself and his clients, that’s a billion with a B, which is, incidentally, is also how my math teacher graded my work.

Now, Stefan is what we lovingly call “annoyingly successful” while most of us are celebrating six figure launches and 20% open rates, like we discovered fire or something, he casually takes companies to seven eight figures in just one or two years.

He is the inventor of the RMBC method, which stands for, “Really, My Bank account is a Crime” method, no, just kidding. It stands for “Research Mechanism, Brief and Copy”, and it makes your bank account jump up and down with excitement, because it works so much better than the typical hope method, which stands for “help! Oh, God, please anyone”.

But Stefan’s expertise and talents go way beyond just copy. Sure, he’s an amazing copywriter, but he also builds big businesses. This year, he exited a telehealth company and an AI SAS platform that he built.

It seems like when God was handing out business brains, he served Stefan with a triple serving. So I really look forward to getting into that big brain of his. Stefan, welcome to The ListBuilding Lifestyle.

[2:26] Stefan Georgi:
Well, thank you for having me, and that was a great intro.

[2:31] Igor Kheifets:
Well, I’ll send your compliments to my team. We’ll probably be reviewing this episode when we’re done. They did a tremendous job, I agree. So, how’s Florida treating you this time of year?

[2:41] Stefan Georgi:
It’s good, I like Florida. I joke that I was born without the gene that is bothered by humidity, because it doesn’t really ever bother me, so we actually were in Disney last week, walking around in Orlando in 96 degree heat and humidity, and had a great time.

[2:58] Igor Kheifets:
All right, well, I definitely don’t have that. In fact, one of the reasons why I won’t move my family to Florida, because my wife keeps kind of hammering that point home, “It’s humid, my hair is humid. Igor hair”, okay, fine, whatever.

So, it seems like you really get a lot done, and almost everything you touch turns to gold. So two questions, do you like, have you failed? And do you sleep?

[3:30] Stefan Georgi:
Yes and yes. So, I think everybody online will tend to focus on their successes, which makes sense. I have tried over the years to also talk about my various failures, but, yeah, there have been plenty.

Even right now, I’ve got a skincare brand that is doing okay, but not great. We’ve sunk over $600,000 into it and probably lost $250,000 and we’re, I think, pretty close to having it figured out.

But I had the luxury of having the money to be patient and tolerant, whereas a lot of people who are just starting out would not have that kind of luxury to go through that pain.

But yeah, there’ve been plenty of failures, I think I learned early on, fairly early on, though, that like, if you typically, over a longer horizon, you need to be patient. Basically, one of the biggest art forms of business, I feel, is understanding that fine line between when to give up and when not to.

Because you hear the stories of, “man, I was super close to closing everything down. I was just like, I had lost all this money, I thought it was a failure, I was going to go back to the corporate world, and then at the last minute, I figured it out”.

And that’s happened to me multiple times with Ventures, right? But there are also times where you just have something and it’s just not the thing, but you stick with it for way too long, you spend six months, a year, two years, three years, hell 10 years, and it’s just never the right thing.

And if you had just killed it earlier and moved on to something better, then you may have had a lot of success, so that’s a kind of an art form. There’s no magic answer we can definitely get into.

And then sleep, yeah! Actually, I sleep pretty well at this phase of my journey. It helps having great teams and great business partners and people I work with, and then AI obviously, makes me 1000 times more effective, so that is really helping as well.

[5:30] Igor Kheifets:
Yeah, I agree, although I’ve just read an article, so I’m Canadian and I subscribe to a bunch of Canadian newsletters about Canadia. So today, there was an article that concluded that AI didn’t make Canadians more productive.

It actually made them less productive because they end up getting stuck in AI tools and trying to understand which ones they’re supposed to use, which ones they’re not supposed to use, and train models and stuff.

And I can see how that happens to many people, but you obviously are a very high level thinker, and you talk about this, how, in today’s day and age, you can’t just be a copywriter, which I’m assuming, that’s what you kind of, classify yourself first, as you have to be a copy thinker, you said.

So when it comes to having better thinking while using tools such as the likes of GPT and cloud and whatnot, you can probably outperform most people who get into that stuff.

[6:32] Stefan Georgi:
Yeah, definitely. I put a thing on x about this recently, and one person asked me, “Hey, well, if you’re still really new, does it make sense to write a copy manually, the analog way, a few times, to learn or get experience or whatever?”

And I thought that was a good question, and it was hard to answer, because there’s probably some kind of neuroscientific reason for, like, these pathways building when you think through writing something by yourself, right?

Same reason they used to say people should hand write a copy, even though I never did that. And don’t know if I fully believe it, (I understand, I never did) I never did, yeah, a lot of people did, I never did it, but I get it, right? And I understand there’s sort of this, like, physiological reason where that could be valuable.

But the other thing I mentioned to them is, like, I never really thought copywriting was about the writing itself. There were always times where I might write a couple of lines or something and be like, “Oh, that’s a great line of writing”. But in general, it was always about the ideas, right?

And I think that’s really all of marketing. Why I love marketing is because it’s really about ideas, and then bringing ideas to life and turning ideas into action.

And so, if we look at the actual act of writing, the reality, just flat out, is that Gemini, Claude, ChatGPT, pick your poison, they’re all pretty much as good, not pretty much, like they’re as good at writing or better than 99% of people.

And the edge isn’t because you added some adjectives, you mentioned that it was like a grainy, brown table instead of this, that you sat at the table, like that’s not really what makes your copy convert better.

It’s about like, the ideas, and then it’s about the structure for whatever you’re writing, whatever kind of asset is being created, whether it’s like an ad, like a caption on Facebook, or like a video ad script, or it’s an advertorial, or it’s a product page or landing page, right?

There’s like, a proven structure. Usually you experiment, but there’s like, typically, “okay, this other person in my niche or space is having a lot of success. Here’s exactly what the structure is of their page. Probably I should just follow a really similar structure as a starting point”.

“Okay, cool. What is like, the idea, like, what’s my big promise, my value proposition, right? You have list building lifestyle, so I’m trying to build, like, a list. I’m doing lead gen”,

Let’s say, “Okay, well, like, what’s the reason someone should actually get on my list?” Is it like a bribe? Is it a free post shipping thing? Is it like a little premium, or is it even just the promise? What’s the promise of value? And then why should I care about that? Is that a compelling offer, right? The value I’m going to give? And then what makes it different from everyone else who’s offering value too?

But those are all ideas, none of that is about writing. It’s about like the ideas. It’s also about understanding your market, like research, which turns out, deep research from Gemini.

And I particularly like Gemini, but you can use perplexity, ChatGPT, whatever, like cool! You can use the right prompts, you can get an incredibly detailed research brief for your target demographic that goes through everything from their level of product market awareness, psychographic information, competitor analysis and how to differentiate.

Okay, so I’ve got the idea with AI, if I know the right structure, and I give that to an alum, and I say, “Hey, here’s like, literally, now I can just give it a link and go. Here’s the link to my competitor, go analyze it and give me a breakdown of, like the structure of this page, right? The guideline”, “okay, cool. I got that”.

Like, “here’s what I’m doing. Here’s sort of like the basics of what I’m doing; here’s my ideas, here’s, like, the differentiation, create a new product page”, create a new whatever, and it does it.

And so, and that’s a kind of Rapid Fire Hose type of answer. But it’s kind of, like there’s just not really a reason to do much writing. But I think, to your point on the Canadian study, I see that as well, even with.

I just had that, the RBC method, right? As you mentioned in the intro, that was a copywriting kind of course and methodology that I use personally, that made creating copy more assembly line, like, where it was like, do these steps to create good copy. And I just put out RMBC two, which is a standalone course, and has parts of the RMBC method, but we’re using AI throughout it.

And I talk about it painfully. I mean, I was painfully intentional about being like, “maybe you use a different LLM, maybe you like this one, maybe you find that you do this tweak”, like, you really have to be kind of an experimenter and see what works best for you.

Here’s what works for me, it’ll definitely work well for you, maybe you can improve upon it, that’s great.

And even with that, so many times it’s like, “yeah, but if I had to just pick one, LM, which one is it?” And I’m like, “I can’t tell you”. People just ask that question, and I get it, you’re pretty broke, whatever.

But I don’t really understand if you’re serious about marketing, doing offers, copywriting, whatever it is. I don’t know how you can just have one LM, because you’ll get different outputs.

And sometimes ChatGPT is better than Quad, sometimes Quad is better than ChatGPT, but worse than Gemini. Sometimes Perplexity randomly does a really good job of research, even though it’s sort of like a wrapper for others.

Like you just sort of, I run the same prompt through multiple LMS all the time, and then I’ll just kind of look at, there is one output consistently the best, there are parts of one output over here, better parts over here, better way to combine them and assemble them.

But zooming back out before I shut up. It is thinking, I’m thinking through everything, “What’s the idea”, right? “What’s the research, what’s the messaging”, and then even, like, “how do I assemble the copy properly? How do I take these different outputs”.

And even when you get the output, that’s where you as a human of judgment still have the edge, because you may look through what the output was, like the copy that the AI wrote was, and be like, “Hey, this is good, but this part doesn’t make sense”. Or like, “I think this is sort of unbelievable, I feel skeptical, right?” And like, “Please modify it”.

Like, but you’re still not usually writing, you’re telling it, iIt’s like, you’re working as, like an intern, you’re like, the copy chief, they would call it “in copyright”, and you’re the guy reviewing the copy, or the girl reviewing the copy and giving it feedback.

So, yeah, I think it’s all about just the thought process right now, which to me, again, this one who loves ideas is phenomenal. I think that’s why I don’t struggle. Because my identity was never as a writer, I got known as one of the best copywriters around, and still I am, I suppose.

I’m also a great entrepreneur, husband, father, thinker, all these things. And so, it hasn’t threatened my identity, because I never really identified just as a copywriter or writer in general. I think I’m a thinker who loves marketing

[13:10] Igor Kheifets:
Yeah, yeah, I can tell. And I completely agree about copy not being about writing. At first when I got into, well, for me, the exposure to copy was the realization that you could put some words on a page or a letter or an email, and then people from across the ocean will send you money, (Yeah) that was beautiful.

I still think it’s magical that we can do something like that, that we can make other people do our bidding using nothing but words. I mean, isn’t that incredible?

I mean, you don’t have to use weapons or anything, just don’t have to blackmail anyone. Just ask in a certain way, and they, and some of them, will do it. And if you ask enough people, you have everything you want in life.

And at first, I did exactly what you mentioned. I wrote it by hand, I rewrote things, and I memorized phrases. I remember there was a book, “Words That Sell”. (Oh, yeah) Yeah. It had all the phrasing, all the guarantee phrasing, all the PS phrasing, all this, all that.

I remember I had a really long, 49 point checklist that I stole from Yannick Silver’s copywriting seminar where it’s like, “Do you have a guarantee? Do you have this? Do you have this? Do you have this?”

And then he had all the templates in it as well. It’s like, it was a huge document, like 200 something pages with everything you needed, so I would always run a copy against it.

But then, when I discovered Dan Kennedy in his book, “The Ultimate Sales Letter”, which I would now say is still pretty relevant. The message, the big message in the book, was that assembling a sales letter is like assembling Lego blocks. You have the big promise blog, the guarantee blog, the PS, the opener, this, this, this bullets, and before it, you’ve got yourself a sales letter.

And then after that, when I got into email marketing, that’s when I started to learn about ideas. Because email marketers, what we have to do, we have to test a million different ideas very, very fast. Every email is a different idea, every email is a different angle.

And all of a sudden you start noticing what’s getting open, what’s not getting open. In fact, not many people know this, but the title of the show and the title of my book, which I have by the same name, is actually a subject line that pulled the best open rates.

So this concept of copywriting is: idea first, art, and it’s not about the words, it’s not about the phrasing. I think it’s one of the most powerful realizations that can be a game changer for anyone doing any sort of selling at all.

[16:03] Stefan Georgi:
Yeah. And what I would add, I mean, I think, this was very implicit in what you just said, but to make it painfully explicit, it’s also what’s great was saying, like email is the rapid validation of those ideas, right?

Because you’re testing subject lines, or your different angles and hooks, like, I mean, really, like, a subject line is an advertisement to read the rest of, to open the email and read the rest of it, right?

The first sense is really an additional inducement to continue going, right? And so, what’s cool is stuff like email, or, honestly, even today, like Tiktok shop, for people who use that, or whatever it is, is you’ll get very rapid feedback, and then you can iterate and improve upon it.

And so it’s like the ideas, and then also the validation, or invalidation, I suppose, of those ideas. And I think it’s really fascinating and powerful, I guess,

[17:02] Igor Kheifets:
You talk about this, by the way, you mentioned that today, when everyone has access to the AI tools, anyone can write anything and paint anything. The big advantage for entrepreneurs is not the copy, it is the speed with which you can produce offers and produce copy? (Yeah)

[17:22] Stefan Georgi:
Totally, I mean, I think that was always an advantage, for sure, but I personally feel we’re at a point where if you aren’t moving very quickly, which you can do with AI, then you are in existential danger of becoming irrelevant or just losing to your competition, or whatever it is.

I think right now, I don’t have a scarcity mindset about this, so you can figure it out and still have a lot of success as it stands currently. But if you’re in a competitive space, especially in the consumer product space, or things of that nature, or you’re a service provider, I think people’s tolerance for long delays of anything has gone down.

I mean, you can look at shipping if you order something on Amazon, like you expected the next day, when I order stuff from (next day? I expect Amazon) same day, yeah, totally.

[18:15] Igor Kheifets:
Are you kidding me? I was flying from Europe on the way here a few days ago; my wife hit an order before we set out from Poland, right? Because she was expecting, and this was an expectation, that by the time we landed, it’d be on the porch (yeah) which it was. I mean, this is incredible! They don’t have it in Europe, believe it or not. You can’t have that over there yet.

[18:39] Stefan Georgi:
Yeah, that’s crazy! It hasn’t made it to Europe yet. But, yeah, and Amazon is one example, like food delivery, I order way too much food from places like, Postmates and Uber Eats, and my wife today is supposed to be researching, getting like a chef for us, because we want to eat healthy and.

But,it sounds really indulgent, but I’m like, if I look at how much money we spend a month on Postmates, I’m pretty sure, like.

[19:03] Igor Kheifets:
I had some experiences, so I went through the same phase. At one point, I noticed that my wife would really spend a lot of time and effort cooking, and then we would eat it in 20 minutes.

And then she would feel exhausted, and then she would be like, “Well, I have to do this, and I have to also do this and do this and do this”. And I was like, “Okay, I know what that feels like, I’m a business owner, I’ve been there. Let’s outsource”.

And so we started, like doing things, like experimenting with what we can outsource. And we did try a few shifts. Let me tell you, it’s like hiring a copywriter sometimes, you’re gonna go through a few and they’re gonna come in with their mindset and with their quirks and issues.

And one thing that’s, like, really annoying when they come in and they’re not really tidy, so like, they’ll come in, they’ll do the cooking, then they’ll leave, and then you kind of, you walk up to the fridge, and you grab the fridge and the handle is greasy or something, and you’re like, “yeah, oh my god”, so get ready. (Okay) Yeah, it’s gonna happen.

[20:08] Stefan Georgi:
Okay, noted, yeah. And I also don’t like the bunch of people in my house, we moved, we live near Fort, Lauderdale and Alba. We moved to, like, Miami, when we first came back to Florida and we’d had, like, nannies and daily, sort of, like housekeeper, person and all that, and we got rid of everybody for a good while.

Now, we just had a new baby who’s a little over three and a half months old. And so we have, like, nannies, or a nanny again, nannies, because we kind of rotate, so we have better coverage.

But, it’s nice, but I don’t want to get back into having, like, what I found is having a bunch of people, like a staff in your house, I know some people (you can’t relax) You can’t relax, you never relax.

I don’t want to, like you try to pull quickly with your wife, good luck, there’s like, a bunch of people walking around. It’s like, everything, you want to go lay on the couch because you’re feeling lazy, and then you feel judged because you’ve got all these people like, doing stuff. I’m like, “this is awful”. So, I even think about that with a chef.

But the point I was gonna make is, even with, like, Postmates, let’s say, I use Postmates, like personally, Uber is fine, too, whatever. But I’m like, if it’s gonna come, if it’s more than 40 minutes, I won’t order because I’m like, that’s too long. So, I only order stuff that’s gonna come in under 40 minutes, and usually 15 or 20 minutes, because I’m like, even a half an hour, I’m hungry now.

And so, if you just go back to that, the psychology of that, kind of permeates everything, but it also permeates if you’re hiring people, right? Like, for example, I went to hire an email copywriter for our telemedicine business, and I guess to correct the intro, we didn’t sell that one, we’re working on selling a significant stake in that.

I sold my call center and the AI SAS, the telemedicine platform, is doing really well. We’re targeting exiting or selling a majority stake in that by the end of this year, start of early 2026 but we’re hiring an email copywriter, had like 100 plus applicants, and one of the questions I asked is, “hey, if I want you to write, like, a seven day, like, I can’t if it was a welcome sequence or promotional sequence, whatever it is, for our brand”, which is pretty straightforward.

Like, we basically match people with GOP ones, right? Like, so some glutathione pictures, appetite, we go visa bound, all that stuff. It’s not like, we’re not like, there’s a lot of subtlety to it, it’s sort of like, okay, “if I asked you to do a seven day sequence, how long would it take?”

And you had some people with really good samples and good portfolios and all that, who were like, “four hours, right?” Which is sort of what I would expect, maybe four hours is kind of long, but okay, fine! I can live with that, there are other people who were like,”two to three weeks” and they don’t, they don’t really

[22:41] Igor Kheifets:
They’re gonna write it by hand using a pencil?

[22:44] Stefan Georgi:
I don’t know, and it’s like, it’s also the overthinking, kind of, going back to what you’re saying that there’s so many people who, “this is a hard thing to fix”, right? There’s like, fact finders in life, and there’s over thinkers, and it’s like, everything, “well, I’d want to do all this research, and I want to understand”

So first of all, the AI can do that for you anyway. But then second, like, you don’t really need like, I guess I’ve gotten more and more mastery like, I paradoxically realized like, you don’t like, research is helpful, but you don’t need that much research.

It’s like, if you’re selling a weight loss medication primarily to overweight women, like, there’s not that much you need to know. Like, they’re overweight women in the US, they want to lose weight, like, “are there some psychological drivers?” “For sure”. “Should you understand what those are?” “Definitely”.

But like, you want to spend weeks creating this detailed, like, Avatar profile, just like you could literally just use deep research and have everything you need in like, 15 minutes, right?

So yeah, and then for your business too. I mean, like, I’ve got to the point where we work with devs, we work with designers. Like, you can just vibe, code stuff, I use App love and like, we built, like, a whole set of like a blood testing thing, kind of, like, function health where you basically get your blood drawn, it tests, like, 115 plus biomarkers, right? So really in depth, like, what’s going on inside your body.

And then we wanted, like, a platform where you could upload your results and have the AI analyze the results and tell you insights into, like, what happened. And like, I literally just vibe coded that on App love, and it took me, like, two hours, and was completely functional.

And I paid, I’ve got a guy in India now who I really like, and I gave their team a couple grand to, like, kind of go through and make it really spruced up. But it was, they’re like, this basically, is, like, good now.

And so look, I can vibe code stuff, landing pages, or something called Magic pad patterns, I am not sure if you’ve ever used magic patterns, but it’s amazing.

You can go in, give a sample of something, be like, “okay, hey”, like, “I want to do an advertorial landing page, whatever it is. You can pull images and use them, here’s like, the copy, make it”. People pop, just make it, and it’s great.

And sometimes the designs are better, and then, the other day, using ChatGPT’s new agent function, I literally had ChatGPT, I was like, “Hey, go use Magic Pattern ChatGPT’s agent”.

So then my agent went and used magic patterns, you can watch it on the screen, it was wild, so it’s like the AI agent is giving feedback to the agentic landing page builder thing, and they basically gave an advertorial copy.

But then it made it this whole crazy interactive thing, and, like, added all these new features and elements to it, it was incredible. And I just was standing there, like sipping my coffee, watching it build it for me.

And so, even I don’t think you have tolerance for a long timeline, so I think that’s uncomfortable for some people, because they want to move slow and at their own pace, and I’ve never been that way.

[25:27] Igor Kheifets:
Look, I don’t think anyone who’s a freelancer should take the word slow as like a life mantra, there’s no way. I mean, if you’re a freelancer, you have to have a sense of urgency and deliver it really, really fast. That’s like, half the job.

[25:42] Stefan Georgi:
I mean, I agree, but even business owners too, though. I mean, that’s the thing, right? This is for my own business. Like, I’m not doing those things for clients.

I mean, like, as a business owner, I’m not waiting, like I used to have to wait for all these bottlenecks like, I’d like, wait for, “okay, we want to test this”. “Well, okay, it’s the weekend, and the design people aren’t here or they’re like, in India or Pakistan”. So that can be online till tomorrow.

And I’m just like, “F that, like, Beep boop, up there we go, it’s life”, like, I just, was just so powerful and it’s only going to get faster and easier with AI, like, I really, personally believe that almost any kind of digital marketing function that you can think of will probably be automated with AI within two years from now, to be honest with you.

Like, I really like media buying, for sure, design and Dev, CRO and split testing, like all those things, right? And so then where will we still have power, where we still have an edge, right? Because I don’t want to lose my edge. I mean, think, think about this. I don’t talk about this a lot.

[26:50] Igor Kheifets:
Washing dishes (This is great) in rooms, in rooms.

[26:53] Stefan Georgi:
No, Optimus is going to do that. So, just as a note from an identity perspective, and kind of like, “Thank God I never just purely identified as a copywriter”.

Because imagine, copywriter, because imagine this, like, you find this thing in 2012 right? Called copywriting. I’ve kind of, like, vaguely heard of it before, but like, really got into it in 2012.

Within a couple years, I have had a ton of success. I’m considered one of the best copywriters alive and of my generation. Like, I’m making a million, over a million dollars a year, almost every year.

And like, sort of, freelance copy income from 2017 to 2021, 2022, and that’s on top of having businesses, I guess, go to supplement companies, one to 23,000,000 to over 100 million, right?

But I’m like, no matter what happens, I’ve got copywriting. So if everything else hits the fan, I’m so great at this that I can pay, people pay me $50,000 a pop to write these things. I can do a couple a month for them, because I’m faster than everybody. Amazing, right? Like, I’ve mastered this skill, how incredible!

And then AI comes out, and it’s like, “oh yeah, your skill is basically not that important anymore”. Turns out a computer can do your skill. Lots of people go through that in other categories and ditches, so I understand it.

But I guess the lesson maybe people could take is, instead of being like a victim about it, I’m just like, “all right, no worries. Like, what do I need to do now? Like, right? How can I be even better with this tool, versus fighting it?

Because you still see denial all over the place. Like, all over the place, whether it’s artists, programmers, copywriters, virtual assistants, whatever it is, there’s denial, left and right.

But like, “how can I leverage this to be even more effective, better, faster?” And then, “what do I do next? How do I stay ahead of the curve?” And so, if I go back to, like, AI automating almost every aspect of the digital marketing process, it’s like, “okay, well, what are the things you’re joking about washing dishes. But like, what are the things that I’ll solve an edge on?”

So potentially ideation; although if the AI can test stuff really quickly and rapidly, then it can find the winning idea. It might start off with 100 ideas, and 95 of them are crappy.

But if it can find the five that are good and the one of the five that’s really good, really fast, with a really efficient ad spend or budget, and start scaling it. Like, okay, cool, maybe that’s better.

So then, it’s like, okay, well, there’s gonna be human relationships, still, right? Like, people to people, stuff. Yes, there’s gonna be robot robots, there’s gonna be AI signed, other AI. All this crazy stuff is gonna happen.

There’s the road of physical, like, physical products because there’s people who are still going to buy consumable, physical products, so I like that. And then, it still comes down to like, through relationships, what are your cogs? How efficient are you? Is your formula better than this person’s?

Then you need money. You’re gonna need a lot of money. Because even if everybody can launch campaigns, and even if like, you’re gaining an efficient row as there’s still money being spent to find that place where you break even, and then are profitable, and then more money needed to scale, both on ads, but also on inventory or physical products, if you’re doing physical.

And then these experiences are for sure, and like, then it’s probably branding, is actually a huge one. Like, I stopped doing a personal brand for a couple of years, and by that I’m, I just didn’t put any effort into it.

Like, I put effort into it from 2019 to 2022 and then I, like, stopped, like, you’ll go to my Instagram, I barely posted in a couple of years, whatever. But now I’m probably going to go back to it, even though I don’t want to be a guru, truly, I really, really, really don’t want to be.

I think, if anyone can launch and scale brands, whether those are digital brands, physical brands, whatever it is, and it becomes a lot easier than the people who already have a leg up are going to continue to have an advantage, right?

Because everyone in our world kind of already knows who Alex Hormozi is, they probably know who Grant Cardone is, right? If you can scale a bunch of like drink companies, CocaCola is still gonna be okay, because everybody knows who CocaCola is. And so, I actually think it’s more important than ever to build brand equity now, and whether that’s your personal brand or a physical brand or whatever.

So again, I know I go wide ranging, maybe I sound like a crazy futurist, but to me, it doesn’t feel controversial at all. It feels like 1,000% what’s going to happen.

And then, by the way, worst case, I’m wrong, and it takes five years or 10 years, or it doesn’t automate all of it, perfect, great! Then I have more of an edge. Like, now my ideas still matter, now, I’m still able to operate more efficiently, and, oh no, I just have a really great brand now, a couple really great brands.

Like, you talk about, like, asymmetric risk, where it’s kind of like, huge upside, limited downside, or huge downside, limited upside, like, that’s a pretty asymmetrical bet, because there’s not really any downside to thinking that way now.

And that’s another thing I might encourage people who are wary of AI or freaked out or don’t want to change, it’s like, what’s the downside to embracing it? Like, if you were right and AI is like, not that great, then you still probably just were more effective, more efficient, and had more success, and you’re way ahead of your competition.

And if you were wrong, and AI is really great, you’re more successful and ahead of your competition, have Like, what I don’t, to me, it’s like a no brainer.

[31:59] Igor Kheifets:
Yeah, and I’m not even going to add anything to that, that was good. I want to do something real, like interesting for me, at least, before we wrap up, I wanted to do what we call “The Rapid Fire Question segment”.

So, I’m going to basically throw a bunch of questions at you, and your job is just to answer them fast, preferably with a statement, maybe two statements, but not more than that, don’t go on.

[32:25] Stefan Georgi:
Okay, okay, I like to, so I will, okay, yeah, (just go).

[32:32] Igor Kheifets:
Most underrated piece of advice you always give, but people ignore?

[32:39] Stefan Georgi:
I feel like, super ready I think that there’s so many. I feel like I have so many wise ones, and I’m but, like, it’s hard to do off the top of head. So I guess, like, just something, like, essentially, to play the play the long game like, focus on, like long tail. The benefits of long term thinking outweigh the benefits of short term thinking. And so patience and playing the long game. Okay,

[33:14] Igor Kheifets:
is there such a thing as long tail thinking?

[33:18] Stefan Georgi:
I think it’s more, it’s more long term, but I guess you could think of the long tail benefits. Long

[33:24] Igor Kheifets:
Tail thinking is the long term SEO thinking. I guess,

[33:27] Stefan Georgi:
yeah, it’s this idea that there’s a lot of actions you take today. It’s just compounding, right? It’s like almost atomic habits. There’s like this compounding thing. And so what might start off? I know we might have video, but what may start as a very incremental improvement or benefit over time that tail becomes fatter and fatter and so it’s really horizontal, right? Like thinking in longer horizons.

[33:52] Igor Kheifets:
Your number one guilty pleasure copywriting cliche, you still love to use

[33:58] Stefan Georgi:
warning the beginning warning,

[34:02] Igor Kheifets:
okay, um, one book you wish every list builder would would read.

[34:10] Stefan Georgi:
Let’s go with persuasion, by Robert caldini,

[34:15] Igor Kheifets:
okay, do you like pre suasion more than you like persuasion?

[34:21] Stefan Georgi:
I mean his book is called persuasion. It’s just a good book. It just has a lot of those sort of things around priming people to be influenced. And so there’s value there. But I don’t know. I there’s so many books, just one that came to mind, and it’s on the bookshelf, and I’m looking at it to be honest with you.

[34:43] Igor Kheifets:
Favorite copywriter, dead or alive?

[34:48] Stefan Georgi:
Gary bensavanga, really good.

[34:5] Igor Kheifets:
He’s elegant. Yeah. Do you? Do you prefer to write copy early in the morning or late at night? Early in the morning, I. One thing you do daily, no matter what

[35:04] Stefan Georgi:
work out, I do something physical every day.

[35:08] Igor Kheifets:
Favorite TV show

[35:10] Stefan Georgi:
I like the first couple of seasons of Fargo, the TV show,

[35:15] Igor Kheifets:
okay, okay, one word your wife would use to describe you

[35:24] Stefan Georgi:
optimistic.

[35;26] Igor Kheifets:
Okay, most played song or playlist on your Spotify,

[35:31] Stefan Georgi:
I have again playlist called up upbeat. That is good because I can kind of do it in different scenarios, whether that’s working out out

[35:40] Igor Kheifets:
by the pool. Can you name one the first song on that playlist?

[35:44] Stefan Georgi:
I don’t know the first song, but I like, um, like, uh, love me less. By Quinn 92 a lot that’s on the playlist, okay, could you love me less? Yeah, good song.

[35:56] Igor Kheifets:
As a buyer, somebody who buys stuff, what’s like a trigger that you have that you can’t resist. Like, if it’s triggered, that’s it. You’re buying.

[36:06] Stefan Georgi:
It’s honestly, if we’re talking in person, I really like a good salesperson. I want to be sold to. And so if somebody is actually good salesperson who takes the time to try to sell me, I’m much more likely to buy than from a bad salesperson. Okay,

[36:21] Igor Kheifets:
one piece of neuroscience every marketer should know

[36:26] Stefan Georgi:
there’s focus mode thinking, diffuse mode thinking. So focus mode thinking is when you’re problem solving, focus really hard on a specific problem. Diffuse mode thinking is when you get an idea in the shower. And basically, the way your brain works is you need both. And so if the same reason you get an idea in the shower is because when you actually take a break from a problem, other parts of your brain will kind of go to work on it, and it ends up being really valuable and effective, which is why, paradoxically, in order to be at your most efficient and effective, you need to have periods of

[36:57] Igor Kheifets:
downtime as well, And obviously something to write with in the shower. Yeah. How many drafts is too many? Seven. Okay, do you read your copy out loud before shipping it?

[37:13] Stefan Georgi:
I have before, but I can hear the voice of my head so clearly now that I don’t always do it, but I would recommend that to anybody who is newer.

[37:21] Igor Kheifets:
Okay, the easiest product you had to sell,

[37:25] Stefan Georgi:
I mean, GOP ones, from a pure value prop standpoint, are really easy. It’s actually a really challenging business in a lot of ways. But it’s like, it’s a weight loss medication that, like, works So that is pretty

[37:39] Igor Kheifets:
easy. Okay? Is like, ozempic or, yeah, stuff like that, really, yeah, I guess, yeah. That doesn’t sound like it’s hard to sell. I mean,

[37:48] Stefan Georgi:
Everybody knows it works. Like, quick aside. I mean, our funnel is, like, primarily doing millions and millions of dollars a month, and it’s like a little static ad to a pretty short landing page to, like, a medical questionnaire to qualify them. If they qualify, like we tried VSLs, you don’t need VSL try an advertorial. It’s like a commodity, right? It’s like, everybody knows it works. Some people, like have reservations about it, or, like, side effects or whatever. But like, vast majority of people know it works. Kind of want it. Can I afford it? Is it like, Can I trust you to buy it? That’s it, right?

[38:22] Igor Kheifets:
Okay, and last one, what’s the hardest thing you had to sell?

[38:30] Stefan Georgi:
I mean, I’ve definitely written a copy for a lot of things that were were hard to sell over the years. I mean, any shitty product, any product, any product is not like, immediately, intuitively beneficial, like, meaning that there’s nothing unique about it. So for say, somebody came to me and said, I want to sell, like a stock probiotic supplement. Like, it’s hard to sell because you either need to lie a bunch, which people do in like, the some of the like online marketplaces you’ll see, and pretend it’s like God’s gift, but it’s like, just a crappy, mediocre probiotic that everybody, everybody, by the way, takes probiotics. So really, this is any really generic, commoditized product that doesn’t have a really high level of demand or any scarcity,

[39:17] Igor Kheifets:
Okay, anything that comes to mind specifically.

[39:21] Stefan Georgi:
I mean, the probiotic one was a good example. Like, I wouldn’t, I say, notice stuff like that or have over the years. Um,

[39:28] Igor Kheifets:
What about info info products,

[39:31] Stefan Georgi:
Yeah. Like, is this the same thing, though? I mean, like we were, my wife and I were, I’m not gonna name it, I guess. But there was, like an NFT that was, I think, like, $30,000 or something like that, that we were partnered in, and it came up with these different perks and benefits, but they just weren’t very clearly defined. And so trying to sell something that high ticket without really clearly defined a really clearly

[39:57] Igor Kheifets:
defined value of an NFT, yeah.

[40:00] Stefan Georgi:
Yeah, well, this one was, like, it came with, like you could attend this event, you’d have, like, these exclusive it was really access to, like, to like events and networking and things like that. And that’s typically to me, like, where I think there’s still value in nfts. It was like, essentially, it’s just like a, like, a pass card, right? You’re like, a members, a member’s card. I’ve got this members only card when I have this. I mean, go the board API Club was the same thing. It was like, the reason those became so valuable was because they were doing, like, exclusive events and networking and things, and so I think that’s where, generally, nfts still have value, even though they’re not really in vogue right now.

[40:35] Igor Kheifets:
Interesting! Okay, well, before we wrap this up, can you tell us a little bit more about the RMBC tow, because you’ve just released it.

[40:45] Stefan Georgi:
Yeah. So it is a very comprehensive kind of course system, whatever you want to call it, that will show you how to generate great copy from A to Z using AI. But beyond that, it’s really about understanding the entire customer journey, from cold prospect or a warm prospect to a buyer.

It’s how the different, it’s about context a lot as well, because the person who sees an ad on meta is different from native, is different from YouTube, is different than Tiktok.

Then the assets that you use to convert them are different right? There’s different funnel structures, whether it’s an advertorial or right to a landing page or product page or whatever.

And so, it’s really showing you how to holistically understand that journey, and then how to be a strategist and a copy thinker, so that whether you are actually a freelancer or you’re a business owner, you are able to figure out the optimal and ideal journey for converting somebody.

And then you can create every single asset that’s required, needed, using AI in an extremely quick period of time, like minutes to hours, for something really long form.

And yeah, it’s really been great. I just launched it to my list. I haven’t promoted it super heavily, but I’ve had really great feedback. I’ve had some really big business owners go through and tell me they loved it. I’ve had newer people go through it and tell me they loved it, yeah.

[42:16] Igor Kheifets:
And if somebody already owns RMBC one, can they benefit from RMBC two?

[42:20] Stefan Georgi:
1,000% Yeah, it’s like a totally new course. Like I had people who had RMBC one asking for, like, a discount, or, “Why do I have to buy RMBC two?”

And my analogy was, “if you go see a movie that you loved, like you want to see an Avengers movie, and you bought the blu ray or something, because you still buy them, or bought it on Apple or Amazon, whatever it is, and they come out with the next Avengers movie, you don’t just give it for free because you saw the last one.

Like, I’m like, this is like, a full on legit sequel, right? With, frankly, more time invested, in five additional years of in the trenches knowledge. And, it’s not, it’s like I said, there’s the RMBC method, but it’s done in an entirely different way, because we’re using AI and it’s way more efficient, faster everything, so 1,000% yes.

[43:05] Igor Kheifets:
All right, so guys, if you want to check out RMBC two, you can go to stefanpaulgeorgi.com, that’s Stefan Paul, G, E, O, R, G, I.com and it’s going to be big, you can’t miss it!

It’s like right there for the RMBC to check it out. It’s widely considered to be one of the go-to methodologies these days for anyone who’s getting into copy. And I highly recommend you grab it now.

Before I wrap this up, Stefan, any do you want to wrap this up with any parting words of wisdom,

[43:43] Stefan Georgi:
if anything, I just would encourage people to be adaptable and embrace change and dive into it and not be resistant like because I really don’t view myself as A quote, unquote futurist, but I don’t understand how you could, if you’ve leveraged AI properly, is the boom time. Let me say one other way, before we wrap is, like, if you go back to running ads on Facebook in 2010 1112, and it was so easy, right? You can make money. Like, there’s very little kind of compliance. And I don’t even mean because you’re doing super sketchy stuff. Sketchy stuff. I just mean, like, meta wasn’t constantly denying ads or rejecting them and you had to appeal. It was just so, so easy. But I was so early on, I didn’t really fully appreciate that. And then I was talking to somebody a couple years ago, a year or two ago, and about how, oh my god, if we could go back in time, I would make so much money, because it was so easy, right? And then the guy was like, Well, I wonder what that will be. What we say about this time that was so easy, and it’s like for 1,000% it’s ai 1,000% because right now there’s still this delta, there’s still all these resistant people, there’s people not using it properly, and it’s. Such an advantage, and you can be so fast, and you can test so quickly, and you can implement, and you can get great things from it. And so anyone here who’s not using AI enough, like, I really would recommend you just take time to to truly experiment. Don’t, don’t write me a landing page. Oh, the landing page wasn’t good. It’s like, yeah, dude. Like, there’s more to it than that. You need to communicate like you would communicate like an intern or an assistant or someone beneath you, whatever it is. But like the outputs are so good, so, so I would just really encourage people. I don’t want people to be left behind or sort of, you’re screwed, and I also don’t want them to act like a victim, because I’m gonna be super annoyed in five years from now, and people tell these sob stories about how AI put them out of business when they can embrace AI now and make life changing money, and not be worried about business five years from now.

[45:48] Igor Kheifets:
I think it really comes down to people who have had the experience of hiring other people and training them, versus people who didn’t have that experience. Anyone who didn’t have that experience will be like, Oh, this output is crap. Let me just go do it myself, in the same way that if you were hiring somebody to replace you in certain task or flow, you’re like, I need to teach this person. So you give them a task, they come back and it’s crap. And so most business owners, they continue to be stuck and become the bottleneck of their own business. Because they’re like, I could explain it to them, and I can try to teach it to them, but what, it’s going to be faster if I just did it myself? And they, they don’t give the feedback to the person, and they go and they do the work that they’re supposedly paying that other person to do. Well, for me, when I started working with AI, it was kind of like that. It’s like, the work, the initial thing comes back, and then you’re like, This is crap. And if this, this was, like, seven years ago, I would be like, This is crap. I’m done with this and go do it myself, the old way these days, however, having had that experience, so like, Okay, this is a good start. Let’s fix these things. You just give it feedback, so you kind of treat it like a junior employee that happens to know everything just a very smart, Junior, capable employee, and just give it enough feedback and all of a sudden it’ll produce nice stuff for you.

[47:8] Stefan Georgi:
1,000% Yeah, I completely agree. I think that’s a perfect analogy.

[] Igor Kheifets:
All right, guys, so this is the list building lifestyle before we wrap up once again. Go to stefanpaulgeorgi.com to check out the RMBC two method. It’s a completely new, revamped copywriting methodology that stands for Research mechanism. Brief, brief and copy, copy. Research mechanism, brief and copy. This is the go to methodology today, responsible for over a billion dollars in sales. If you’re into creating offers that convert, whether for yourself, for your clients, or is an affiliate? Go and check it out, because this is the real deal. So again, that’s Stefan. Paul george.com, Stefan, thank you so much for spending this hour with me. I really appreciate it. Until next time we chat, have a good one. Thank you.

[48:19]
Thank you for listening to The ListBuilding Lifestyle, get access to the previous episodes, transcript of today’s show, as well as other exclusive content at www.listbuildinglifestyleshow.com. Also remember to claim your free copy of my best selling book at www.igorsbook.com. It explains how I made millions with list buildings starting from scratch, plus I’ll give you $3,000 worth of free bonuses, including my best landing page templates, email swipe files and traffic blueprints. Go to www.igorsbook.com, now to claim your free package!