How To Ethically Steal From Your Competition

I spoke to a client on the phone the other day who admitted:

Igor, the one thing I realized since I started in February is the internet is a very competitive place!

That’s right, Amico.

The internet is extremely competitive.

It removed virtually every barrier for starting an online business or offering a service.

No matter your opportunity, MLM or educational program…

There’s probably at least a dozen look-a-likes out there trying to steal your customer as we speak.

Most marketers try to differentiate themselves from competition by making louder claims.

But that’s like trying to win over the prom queen with a hip haircut.

Discover the true and only way to thrive in spite of fierce competition.

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Hi, my name is Igor Kheifets and this is the List Building Lifestyle, the only podcast
which delivers cutting edge conversion strategies from the online trenches straight to
your earbuds. Download the transcript of today’s episode and all future episodes at
listbuilidnglifestylesshow.com. I also invite you to grab a free copy of “The Wealthy
List Builder’s Survival Guide” at listbuildinglifestyleshow.com/survival and now
once again it’s time to claim your List Building Lifestyle.

Jonathan: You're listening to List Building Lifestyle with the chief list builder
himself, Mr. Igor Kheifets, what is up my man?

Igor: All is good, my brother, all is good in the List Building Kingdom.

Jonathan: [laughter] I feel like you have a sign above your door entering the
kingdom of list building.

Igor: Oh, yeah, it says "Kings office - Royal behinds only" [laughter]

Jonathan: [laughter] Nice. Igor, what do you have in store for us today?

Igor: Well, Jonathan, I got a question for you. How do you feel about competition?

Jonathan: How do I feel about competition? Usually, I feel like I want to take out
all the competition around me, but sure that's not the right mindset.

Igor: Well I don't know because a lot of times what I see people do is they get
timid with the mere idea of thought of competition. Like a lot people don't even
start a business because they say the marketplace is too competitive. Of course,
they ignore the fact that since there is competition, probably means there's also
money in that marketplace, but I'm not really, I don't want to focus on that in
this episode. What I want to chat about is how do you treat your competition, do
you treat it as motivation, or do you let it limit you at some way?

Jonathan: Okay, alright. I'm game for that.

Igor: So it got me thinking. Ever since I was a little kid I was really emotional,
I mean I'm still really emotional, I just I guess I can better utilize my
emotions, but ever since it was a kid I couldn't stand competition just like you.
In fact, I would get so frustrated if I was beaten by my competitors which at the
time of course were the people I went to school with, that I could be, I could end
a friendship.

Jonathan: Wow.

Igor: If we were to play like a game of basketball one on one or something, and
you beat me, I can literally not talk to you for like a week. I was one of those
kids. Right, I really wanted to win all the time. I was always told that that was
a bad thing. Not sure what why, but that that's what I guess all the people around
me told me, both my friends and my parents and my teachers that I shouldn’t be so
competitive, should be taking a loss in such a personal way. But you know, I
discovered, and only kind of hit me recently is that one of the reason I build a
really successful business is because I really can't stand to lose, and having
competition drives me forward probably way, way, way better and way more
efficiently than dreaming of some big idea or bring some change to the world.
Again, we're coming back to that fear of missing out, a fear of being second. And
when it comes to business, really most people they don't take their competition
seriously enough. They don't understand how to utilize the concept of competition
to make themselves and their businesses better.

Jonathan: It kind of plays into that little bit that you gave us where you're
motivated by the stick and not the carrot, the competition is that stick like,
"God damn, that guy's got my market here. I want that, I'm going to get it back
from him.

Igor: Yeah, exactly. So on one hand, I believe that money is not a zero sum game.
In other words, I believe that there is enough money to go around for everybody,
but on the other hand when I think about my competitor that is selling to
customers that could be mine, that is offering services that I could be offering,
that is making the money that quite frankly I could be making and I could be
actually giving might my market place and much better service doing what he's
doing, I get really frustrated. I get really frustrated and it really it really
drives me to not only, I guess push, hard in my business but also create new
services and create new offers that eventually become additional businesses in my
portfolio.

Jonathan: Yeah, yeah. Alright. I'm with you, alright. So competition is a good
thing, right?

Igor: Yes, but... There's always a "but".

Jonathan: Butt. [laughter]

Igor: Competition's a great thing.

Jonathan: A royal butt.

Igor: Exactly. Competition's a great thing. As a concept, I respect it. I respect
the concept of competition. Just like, say now I'm a big soccer fan so let's take
Leo Messi and Christiano Ronaldo. Considered to be perhaps the two most, the best
players in the world right now. We're not going to argue about all time, but right
now, Messi's like Jordan of soccer and Ronaldo is probably the Kobe of soccer,
just so our American listeners can get the idea. Sot hey make each other better,
and I honestly believe that, that if Messi did not have Ronaldo, and vice versa,
they would not be breaking records and doing what they're doing, because they're
driven by that concept. Now at the same time, while you must acknowledge your
competition, you absolutely have to want to crush them, right? You want to rid the
world of them, sort of speak.

Jonathan: [laughter]

Igor: You want to practically kill them if you have to and win the game. Once the
dust settles and the game is over, this won't matter, right? This really won't
matter, because it's not be all end all when it comes to your life. In other
words, when you retire, you're life isn't going to be better or worse given the
competitors you've kind of wiped the floor with. However, while you're playing the
game, your willingness to crush your competitors is everything. Right? So I think
it's coach Vince Lombardi said that winning is not everything, but the willingness
to win, or the desire to win is.

Jonathan: Alright. So I don't know if you're going to go here, but I'm going to
challenge you and I can't remember where I first heard this, but I've heard it
multiple times, and there's a theory out there that there is no competition at
all. Anybody that could be seen as a competitor could be a JV partner. What would
you say about that?

Igor: That is true, that is true. It is another, I guess this isn't really a coin,
because going only has two sides and we already spoke about the two sides, but
this is another side to this sort of like square or something, maybe there's more
to it, maybe it's rectangular, but there is the concept of competition doesn't
exist and the marketplace is an open marketplace, money is not a zero sum game,
thus you can share customers and make more money, and I honestly believe that too.
However, at the same time I wouldn't go to my direct competitor who sells traffic
right now and walk him behind the scenes of my business and give them all my
systems or send my customers to them saying, "You should buy from them either
before or after you buy from me." Now, the way it comes to fruition as far as I'm
concerned, is if you feel this limitation that there is still some share of the
market place that is taken by your competitor, which you cannot reach, you should
feel a little bit scarce, you should feel scarcity of course, but at the end the
day the same customers will leave your competitor at some point and come to you,
or vice versa. The people who are buying from you right now, they will eventually
buy from your computer if you're offering a service that is not exclusive. For
instance, if I was a lawyer, I wouldn't necessarily feel that way if my competitor
gets all the clients. They don't need another lawyer, they only need one lawyer,
but if I'm selling traffic I know that they will buy from a source A, source B,
they will buy from me, they'll buy from source C, and source D and so on. There's
very few people that will only buy from one source. So in this case, yes, the
customer sharing model works and the abundance model works. Same thing for
information marketing. If I'm selling an email marketing course, then I can well
assume that my customers will buy this course from me, they will go ahead and then
buy another course, say from Andre Chaperone, and then they'll sign up on Ben
Settle newsletter simply because he's also a well respected authority in email. If
you release a podcasting course, Jonathan, then they'll buy your course and
they'll go and they'll buy... Who's podcasting superstar of these day besides you?
Johnny Dumont or somebody like that, right?

Jonathan: [laughter] Yeah.

Igor: So they'll be like courses because they're not usually exclusive. However if
I have my podcasting need handled and all taken care of by you and your agency, I
will not hire another podcasting agency, will I?

Jonathan: Good point.

Igor: So just like any concept, all these concepts need to be applied to your
specific situation, because your business may be a little bit different and rules
of the game are also different.

Jonathan: Alright Igor, I imagine that you're not just going to leave us hanging
here, you've got some ideas for us to decimate our competition.

Igor: Oh yeah, absolutely. And there's really two types of competition that you
will ever encounter. It's the competition that is incompetent, that is absolutely
ridiculously incompetent, in fact they're doing the all the wrong things, trying
to survive this marketplace, and these competitors, they don't survive. But
there's also going to be the other type of competitor that is dominating and
that's doing really well. So what I want you to do if you're just starting out, if
you're literally just starting out, I want you to model the competitors that are
doing really well. So if you're just starting out with a business opportunity I
want you to model the person with the biggest team. If you're just starting out
with a podcasting, then you should model Jonathan. If you’re starting out with a
traffic agency, you should model Igor. So you should find the biggest, the baddest
guy and you should get on their list, you should buy from them, you should
infiltrate their system, you should try and reverse engineer of thing they're
doing and try to model that to the best of your abilities. Okay? When it comes to
marketing, of course. Maybe deliverables are different. Maybe your idea of
deliverable's going to be different, but when it comes to marketing a different
want to model, not copy, okay don't be an asshole, don't copy but model.

Jonathan: [laughter]

Igor: Which means get inspired, understand the concept and try to model the
concept. Don't just copy word for word, because Jonathan, you wouldn't believe how
many solo ad sellers literally swipe my shit all day long. Like to the word, to
the freaking word they swipe everything; my websites, my emails, everything. So
guys, don't be assholes, just model the concept.

Jonathan: How do you see that, Igor? How you find out when they're doing that
stuff and ripping you off, how do you have no running into that?

Igor: Well because I'm in the traffic business and I pay attention to what's going
on, and I research my competitors too, and whenever there's a new kid on the block
I check them out as well, just to make sure that I know what's going on. Believe
it or not, I have found websites that are literally word for word, copying me and
I had to use my lawyer, which is you know I use Jason Rosenblum from our JHR
Legal, I think his website is .com, great lawyer for online marketers in case
you're looking for one, to basically email them and say, "Look, if you're not
taking this website down I'm suing you." And this is serious.

Jonathan: Wow.

Igor: Now the most incredible, I guess case of fraud and you know stealing of
intellectual property was when I found somebody using my proof. Can you believe
that? They took my testimonials, my proof screenshots and used them on their
website.

Jonathan: No kidding.

Igor: Yeah, what a low class move that is.

Jonathan: That is ridiculous. [laughter] Igor: Yeah. Now the pitiful part about
this whole thing of course, is that because they copy word for word and they don't
understand the concepts, they don't survive. Copycat simply don't survive. And
that's of course the good part, but of course a part of me, I mean I'm pissed off
when I see stuff like that.

Jonathan: Sure.

Igor: I'm naturally pissed off, because I put a lot of work into my business and
seeing that work's stolen just like that, it's just bad. It's like, have you seen
the Steve Jobs movie when he was designing the interface for the Mac, with the
mouse, like the one we were looking at right now, the visual interface rather than
code, and all of a sudden he kind of storms into the office, or was it his, one of
his coders storms into the office, he's like, "Look what Bill Gates has done."
They're showing him a computer with like the interface, so he calls Gates up and
he says, "I will ruin you, you fucker." Bam, slams the phone, breaks it. That's
how I feel when I see people copy my shit.

Jonathan: Watch out. I like a little word of caution. Alright, so I got the idea.
Model, don't steal, imitate is the way to do it. And other tips?

Igor: Yes. So notice that I mentioned that there's going to be two types of
computers, the competent ones and the incompetent ones. Now what I see a lot of
times is people modeling the wrong competition. They don't take the time to
research who actually understands what the hell they're doing with their
marketing. They just find the first website they see on Google, or maybe the first
website they come across on Facebook, and they model that. And they think that's
enough. They think that just by copying that website it's enough. No, it's not
enough. Just like when you write copy before you write a single word, you want to
research every potential competitor that you got going against, any you need to
find out which one of these guys actually sells. Because I assure you, 80% of your
competitors are not making money. Not even talking about making a profit,
Jonathan. They're not making money. They're not selling a single thing. So you
only have to model, you only must model the ones that are profitable. And you know
that because you'll see their ads everywhere. You'll see them appearing at events.
The guy who probably is successful wrote a book, or has been at least featured as
a speaker on some seminar. Those are the successful guys, but the people that are
just slapping a website on the internet and call themselves marketers or gurus or
whatever, these guys, don't model them. You're just wasting your time.

Jonathan: I'm going to challenge you a little bit.

Igor: Man, this call is all about challenges. [laughter]

Jonathan: [laughter] I had experiences, especially, I mean all through the time
I've been online, but I've had experiences where some of those people, maybe even
a lot of those people, taking stages, being featured and getting out there are
actually not making any money and are dead broke and I'm wondering how you sort
who's who then if that's the criteria you gave us.

Igor: Oh wow, that is a challenge. And to be honest with you, most of the time
when people get featured in and when they speak and when they get interviewed and
invited to share their valuable opinion and they've got lots of different content,
and services on the internet, usually they are at least making a living doing this
thing. But if that's the case and you sort of just researching somebody who
appears to be successful and they're doing such a great job of just appearing
successful but not really making any money, then man, for you, hopefully you'll be
able to identify who's who because I have no idea how you identify in any other
way who's making money was not unless you get to take a look at their back office.

Jonathan: Yeah. We saw a lot in real estate where people would actually fly
themselves out to locations, go to speak and then wouldn’t have a fricking
business on the back end. Dude, I see it all the time now. I mean I've turned down
people who've come to me to do work because I start asking them the questions and
figure out this person does not have a business. It's kind of difficult unless
they open up to or unless you know people. Maybe by referral. Would that be even
better, referral perhaps?

Igor: Oh yeah, absolutely. If you can ask around who's the best at this or who's
the best at that and what should you do if you have this problem and this name
keeps popping up everywhere, then yeah absolutely. Like if you start asking around
about email marketing, then you can bet that either Ben's name or Andre's name is
going to pop up. Right? It's almost like guaranteed that Ben or Andre will pop up.
Sure, both have different schools of email marketing, but both are successful at
what they do. And if their name keeps popping up all the time then you know
they're good. Actually I had someone reach out to me on Friday, and this lady,
she's an executive assistant to an owner of a business opportunity and she reached
out to me and when we got on the phone, I asked her, "So how did you find me, why
did you reach out to me?" She said, "Well, I start asking around. We needed
traffic, like good quality, premium traffic and I was asking around, and
everywhere I would turn your name kept popping up. So I figured then I'd reach out
to you." And that's how it happened, because she's been told that I'm the best.
And of course, that's a great position to be in, right? When other people are
saying that you are good and not you yourself trying to hype the shit [laughter]
out of your business.

Jonathan: [laughter] That's what old Ben Settles says. "If you gotta say it, you
ain't it."

Igor: Exactly.

Jonathan: Good stuff, Igor. So we're coming close to wrapping this up, any other
tips you want to share with the List Builders? Igor: Well not really, no. I mean
at the end the day you definitely want to choose a market that has plenty of
competition, which means there's plenty of money. You definitely don't want to
just tolerate your competition or respect your competition, you want to fucking
crush them at least until the game is over, and then you can both have a cup of
coffee together and reminisce about how great times, how I took you down here and
you took me down there, whatever.

Jonathan: [laughter]

Igor: And of course, remember, money is not a zero sum game, which means even if
you got tons of competitors, you will always find your own micro niche within the
niche that would allow you to make money. You know when I stepped in to the online
marketing game, I thought there was too much competition. I was going against guys
like Jonathan Bud and Mike Dillard and Dagon Smith and Russell Bronson. I mean a
lot of these names are still around, but I was going up against all these guys and
I was thinking like, "Oh my God, how can I possibly make it in this industry with
these competitors?" But the reality was that slowly but surely I started building
up my portfolio, started building up my income, and even though today I don't
consider myself to be anywhere near close say Russell Bronson, who I consider to
be way more successful than I am, yet look at me. Right? The business we've built
and the reach we've got is tremendous. And now there's somebody stepping into this
industry today, or yesterday, or last month looking at me saying, "Oh my God, how
can I make money if there's guys like Igor making all the money?" So it's always
the same pattern. No matter if you're listening to this podcast and trying to get
into the business today, or you're going to listen to this podcast a year from now
and trying to get into the business and considering to sign up for a business
opportunity, you're always going to feel like there's too much competition. But
remember that's an illusion, that's a mirage. The reality is, if there's a lot of
competition, there's a lot of money to be made, thus you step in, you find the
biggest, the baddest guy, you start modeling them to the best your abilities and
use start building your brand, your business in order to well position yourself in
the marketplace, and soon you'll find yourself. If you do all the right things, of
course, you'll find yourself in a position where other people start modeling you
because they see that you're doing something right.

Jonathan: And then you get a lawyer to threaten civil suits for infringement on
copy. [laughter]

Igor: [laughter]

Jonathan: Alright. So that is a wrap for another List Building Lifestyle Show,
thank you Igor, thank you List Builders for tuning in, we'll be back in your ear
buds next time.

Thanks for listening to The List Building Lifestyle Show, make sure to subscribe on iTunes
or Google. Play to never miss an episode because who knows just one conversion tactic
we share on the show might double your list and double your business. Download the
transcript of today’s episode and all future episodes at listbuilderslifestyleshow.com and
don’t forget to claim your complimentary copy of “The Wealthy List Builder’s Survival
Guide” at listbuildinglifestyleshow.com/survival . This is Igor Kheifets until next time we talk, have a good one.

This is the ThePodcastFactory.com.

Who Is Igor Kheifets

Igor Kheifets is the founder and CEO of Igor Solo Ads, world’s largest Solo Ads agency. He’s the guy the gurus call when they need high quality business opportunity leads that convert.

Igor’s passionate about sharing up-to-date traffic & conversion strategies that work with beginners who want to make six figures while traveling the world full time.

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