Lazy Man’s Way To Internet Marketing Riches

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Hi, my name is Igor Kheifets and this is the List Building Lifestyle, the only podcast
which delivers cutting edge conversion strategies from the online trenches straight to
your earbuds. Download the transcript of today’s episode and all future episodes at
listbuilidnglifestylesshow.com. I also invite you to grab a free copy of “The Wealthy
List Builder’s Survival Guide” at listbuildinglifestyleshow.com/survival and now
once again it’s time to claim your List Building Lifestyle.

Jonathan: Welcome back to another edition of List Building Lifestyle with the
guy who makes babies cry at coffee shops, Mr. Igor Kheifets.

Igor: Hey, I did not make that baby cry.

Jonathan: [laughter]

Igor: Allegedly, allegedly.

Jonathan: [laughter] What did you do that kid? You’re like, “Hey, shut
up. I’m on the air.”

Igor: That baby girl couldn’t take the truth that some traffic is fake, and
that’s how the world works. She has to accept it.

Jonathan: Yeah. A little bit of cold hard truth for ya. [laughter] Good stuff,
man. So for everybody listening at home, Igor just enlightened me to why the
coffee shop’s noisy because we were recording on the wrong day at the wrong
time. Wemessed with our formula and now we’re…you’re paying the price,
not us, you’re paying the price. But Igor, what do you have in store for us
today?

Igor: Well, today I want to talk about some of the fundamentals of success in
our industry, and that is this: There is this misconception people have that
tells them that, “I got to go ahead and I have to come up with the next
Google or Facebook or the next groundbreaking idea, the next Netflix or
something.” when in reality it is not required. You don’t have to
reinvent the wheel. You don’t have to come up with the next airplane. You
don’t have to be Thomas Edison. What you got to do though, is you have to
pay attention, spot a marketplace need, and fill it with a product or service
which solves that problem. Because success really does come down to the old
cliché “help enough people, get what they want in life, and you’ll get
what you want.” So Jonathan, if you don’t mind I’m going to use you
as a guinea pig.

Jonathan: Uh-oh.

Igor: So you got the podcasting service going on, and there are guys like me
who recognize that podcasting is a trend and want to capitalize on it. And we,
guys like me, have no clue how podcasting works, we have no clue how to edit
sound we have no idea how to rank on iTunes or whatever. By the way, I just
checked, I’m still number one on the Israeli iTunes.

Jonathan: Wow.

Igor: I think I’ve been number one in that thing ever since we started.

Jonathan: You own it, baby.

Igor: Yeah.

Jonathan: [laughter]

Igor: [laughter] So guys like me have no idea how to do that, so what we do,
we seek out guys like you, through referrals, through research, and we say,
“Hey Jonathan, please, I have this need. I need your help.” and you say,
“Okay. It’s going to be XYZ dollars. That’s the schedule, this is the protocol,
and that’s when we’re going to do it. And bam! You’ve got yourself a client,
which has been with you for now, what, six months?

Jonathan: Yeah.

Igor: So all you’ve done really, you haven’t tried to reinvent the
wheel; you simply acquired a skill set which is how to start, record, and
produce podcasts. You built the system for that and you offered to fill the void
in the marketplace. Because I did not see anyone else offer any such service.

Jonathan: Yeah.

Igor: So now, I’m sure there are some people out there who offer similar
services, but for whatever reason I decided to go with you.

Jonathan: Come on.

Igor: I didn’t even talk to them.

Jonathan: It’s because of the people I’m associated with. It’s my
connections. [laughter]

Igor: Yeah, probably. Yeah, because I was listening to Ben’s podcast and
Dan’s podcast like, “Who the hell is this Jonathan guy? Why is he on
everyone’s podcast? So eventually, I ended up by reaching out to Ben and
then asking him to do the intro. But that’s not the point, man. Stop with
all the self-serving advertisements on my show, please

Jonathan: [laughter]

Igor: If you want some advertising you have to pay for the air time.

Jonathan: Pay for the ads.

Igor: Yeah. Right now it’s educational time.

Jonathan: All right, all right. So what are we educating here? Reinventing the
wheel? I think it was Steve Jobs who said, “You don’t make the…”
Actually I would butcher the quote, but the main idea of what he said was just
make things better. You don’t have to make it the best, make things better.
So when you’re talking about other people offering similar services, they
certainly do. There are a hundred million other companies out there and more of
them getting in every day to the podcast game. But all I did with my service was
make it better than whatever other people were offering and better to you.
It’s better to you, it’s better to people like Doberman Dan, so it’s
better to a certain group of people.

Igor: Well, the point is though; you didn’t have to create a whole new
thing.

Jonathan: No. Not at all.

Igor: You took on an existing concept and you took it up a notch. Right?

Jonathan: Exactly.

Igor: That’s the whole point. Don’t try to hold yourself back by
believing that you absolutely have to, no matter what, come up with a new,
exciting, unique, never- seen-before thing. You don’t. You just have to take
an existing concept or product and make it a little bit better, and put a spin
or a twist on it as your own which is how I stepped in this marketplace. My
first product was a mindset product which sold four copies at $27, but it was a
spin-off of another product which I’ve seen that someone else sell and which
I purchased. It was four interviews about mindset for $9.97. So I purchased that
and I was like, “Man, this is an actual product and I just paid ten bucks
for it. Maybe I could sell a product like that on my own.” So I went out
there, I researched a whole lot, I put all my thoughts into an 80-page e-book,
designed a great looking cover, and recorded four interviews about mindset. In
fact, wrapped this into a product, which sells for 27 bucks, again, I sold four
copies. I didn’t make much money. But that was a good start. My next
product, what I’ve done is I did a list building product with a spin on the
whole moving the free line concept, which basically didn’t quite work. I was
coming out with an idea that you don’t need to give away free stuff, instead
you have to do things slightly differently. That product sold for, at first $7,
then I added a few tutorial videos to it about how to get hosting and set up
your domain, how to set up squeeze page and that sort of thing, so was now a
thirteen-page PDF report and like five videos, which sold for 9.97. I
eventually turned it into a more robust product, heading to more manuals and ten
more videos, and put the price up to 27. That was my flagship product which
allowed me to quit my day job.

Jonathan: Wow. Really? A twenty-seven- dollar-product?

Igor: Yeah. So I started making like two-three sales per day and two-three sales
per day, 27 bucks, over the course of a month made me enough money to quit my
day job, here in Israel.

Jonathan: Igor, I’m wondering, did you invent list building?

Igor: Yes. I am the list building prince, after all. But no, obviously I did
not invent list building. I think that there is no one person who did, but it
does… I want to believe that list building; you can trace it back to direct
mail. Only, it’s a slightly different concept, because direct mail, you kind
of rent lists.

Jonathan: Yeah.

Igor: When in list building you build a list. But the point is though, that by
the time I decided to get into the list building niche as an expert, as an
authority, you already had so many people leveraging that. You had all the big
gurus like John Reese and Frank Kern and Ryan Deiss and Perry Belcher and
Perry Marshall and Ken McCarthy and all of those guys. I’m not even putting
all the offline folks like Dan Kennedy and Jay Abraham and Rich Schefren etc.
so everyone’s teaching list building and all the smaller gurus from the
Warrior Forum, where I kind of started. So anyway, when I was stepping into this
niche it was already crowded. At first, I thought it was a bad thing, but
eventually I think I read a book or something which said that it is a good
thing, simply because there is tons of competition, there is tons of money to be
made, and it also gives an idea that there is a market for that.

Jonathan: Yeah. That’s one thing that really caught my attention when Ben
first said that he likes to get into the golf niche, the weight-loss niche, the
dating niche, because there is so much competition that it doesn’t take as
much work to get some market share and still be profitable.

Igor: Brilliant, brilliant. I mean, dating is huge. What are the big markets
out there? There’s golf, there’s some sort of health-related pain stuff,
there’s weight-loss and supplements.

Jonathan: Yeah.

Igor: There is self-help, there’s make money online in MLM. There’s a
few. There’s less than ten big markets and usually if you’re looking to
make money rather quickly or kind of establish yourself quickly, you don’t
go inventing a market, you just step into an existing market, and you take on a
micro-niche in that market to position yourself.

Jonathan: Yeah, yeah. Money, health, wealth. Doberman Dan talks about them all
the time. But yeah, that’s it. And the good part about those markets is that
you only have to be a little bit better than the next guy. Just a little bit
better to make an impact, which is kind of interesting because in some of these
other more obscure markets you have to be a whole bunch better to get noticed.
But yeah, I like the idea. I think I need to get into one of these competitive
markets.

Igor: Well, yeah. I do agree with you that depending on the market it changes.
Like, if you want to step into the dating market it is so advanced that you have
to be really good. I don’t think there’s any more room in the dating
market for people that are amateurs.

Jonathan: [laughter]

Igor: But there’s definitely… I see tons and tons of amateurs, for
example, in the make money online space. Because the market is full of consumers
that are brand new. Like 95% of the market, when it comes to the make money
online space are brand new people, people that have no experience, people that
have no understanding of list building, people who have no understanding of
email marketing, the folks who never really…like who fail to launch, if you
will. So they forgive incompetency, unlike the dating market, which is
super-advanced. Even if all you do as a consumer get on YouTube and spend one
day watching YouTube videos on dating and pick-up artists, man, you’re going
to see how competitive the damn thing is. So obviously, do your research, but
remember that all you’re looking for is a need you can fill. That’s all
you’re looking for. You don’t look to reinvent anything, you’re just
looking to fill a need and help people solve a problem of some sort and that is
what’s going to take you to making your first full-time income.

Jonathan: There’s something I always think about, and you mentioned it, is
there’s two ways to be an expert: You can be a research expert as you were
with the first, or the mindset product. You went in there and you research,
research, research, knew enough to write an 80-page e-book. Or you can be a real
world expert where you have real life experience, and that’s something that
I think people miss out on is when you’re first starting out, if you just do
a ton of research, you can still put out a product, you can still be an expert,
it’s just a different kind of expert.

Igor: Well, yeah. I remember speaking with, who was it, it was either Kevin
Rogers or Andre Chaperon and one of them was studying John Carlton like
aggressively. Reading everything he was putting out, watching very single
YouTube videos, each and every single interview recording etc. What they’ve
done was just, they were simply posting to their blog whatever they were
studying from John Carleton in their own words and that’s how they became an
authority on the subject of copyright. Simply by restating other people’s
teachings in their own way and field-testing the knowledge in the marketplace
that’s how they quickly rose up to become an authority and that showed in
the first affiliate promotion which led to a huge paycheck.

Jonathan: Man, I hadn’t heard that story before. I’m going to have to
go back and check that out.

Igor: So basically, it comes down to what Ray Higdon calls the LDT model. I
think he calls it that. Maybe I’m butchering. But it’s called Learn Do
Teach. So you learn something, you go do it, and then you teach it to somebody
else, and by doing so you become experienced through theory and at the same time
you’re also doing it, so you’re basically coming from a real place when
you’re teaching to other people. You’re teaching from experience.

Jonathan: That’s an interesting concept and I’m wondering why so many
people, and I find it to be in many different markets, but why do people skip
out on the do part?

Igor: Fear of success, fear of failure.

Jonathan: [laughter] I think you got ideas for new episodes there. But have you
noticed that too, where people actually skip out on the do and maybe they go
learn, teach, learn, teach, and there’s no substance? Because we talked
about unethical marketers, I think, in the last episode. I feel like there are a
lot of people out there that will skip out on the do.

Igor: You see, but when they do skip out on the do element of this formula, it
comes through in their marketing. That’s one of the reasons why they
can’t really sell anything or can’t really recruit anybody, because they
don’t do it from their core.

Jonathan, it’s funny, did you ever study body language?

Jonathan: Yeah.

Igor: And specifically body language when a person’s lying?

Jonathan: Yeah, absolutely.

Igor: So there’s a great show, it’s called Lie to Me. So what this
show kind of teaches is that people unconsciously reveal when they’re lying,
when they’re uncomfortable, when they feel negative emotions towards whoever
they’re talking to etc., and the body can’t lie. The body will give out
these signals. So I believe that when someone markets or sells not from their
core their work gives out signals and that client, the prospect, can’t
really pinpoint the reason why they didn’t purchase from them, but
subconsciously they understand.

Jonathan: That’s interesting. I don’t know if you ever read it, but
there’s this great book called Everybody is Lying, and it’s written by
a former FBI profiler. But it gives me a lot of tips on people’s body
language and how they’re lying, but I like the idea of it actually being in
their copy and in their marketing, that discomfort that they’re revealing
they haven’t put the work into the do portion of the LDT formula.

Igor: Well, first off, thanks for the book recommendation. Remember how couple
of episodes ago we spoke about that people kind of jump from one thing to the
next and never finished a product etc.?

Jonathan: Yeah.

Igor: Never finish going through something? So I just purchased another book.

Jonathan: [laughter]

Igor: I still got like 86 books to go through. But guess which book I’m
going to start tonight?

Jonathan: Oh, yeah? Y ou’re going to start on Everybody is Lying?

Igor: [laughter] Yeah. I just got to.

Jonathan: [laughter] Nice. All right, so what else do we have here with the
idea of not having to build the next Facebook or Google and just doing
something, anything, anything better?

Igor: Well, really there’s no more we can say about that to be honest. I
mean, it really comes down to not over-complicating it and really just going for
the specific needs. When I was kind of going up the ranks, for instance, and I
finally succeed with my own product, I was starting making money and I was
making enough to cover the bills, but obviously wanted more. So the next
marketplace need that I filled was building sales funnels and writing copy for
people. Because even though there’s no shortage of great copywriters, there
seems to be always a shortage of copywriters that are affordable. So at the
time, given that I was still kind of honing my writing chops, I just offered my
services as a real low price, and I scored three to four clients every single
month, so I made extra income just providing a skill set, which I’ve had and
the person buying from me did not have. Eventually, after that, I moved into
building, not just writing copy, but building sales funnels, including writing
the sales letter and putting together the squeeze page and putting together the
download page etc. There was one time when I sold an info product, as in I
built a product for somebody. So every time I spotted the need, either on a
macro scale or a micro scale, I capitalized on it, because I needed the money.
Then that’s how slowly but surely I built up my income. Eventually I dropped
many of these services and moved into things that I truly enjoyed. But as I was,
again, as I was climbing the ladder I simply went for those specific needs that
I realized I could fill. That’s it. That was my philosophy at the time, just
constantly in a search of opportunities where I could be of help to people.

Jonathan: I like the idea of taking on clients to bolster up your do muscle.
That way you got some experience and it was on other people’s stuff, you got
to get some feedback on the work you were doing and see some results and
eventually you moved out of all that and into all your own stuff, but it
definitely, I imagine, it had a big impact on how you market and how you do
stuff today, so that’s a cool little piece of advice there, Igor.

Igor: What do you have coming up for us next time?

Jonathan: Well, first off, before I share what do we got coming up next time,
you’re actually right, man. I was getting paid to get better, I was forced
outside of my comfort zone, so overall these experiences have led to the
creation of the List Building Prince.

Jonathan: [laughter]

Igor: And so…

Jonathan: You are owning that one. [laughter]

Igor: Yeah. It’s sticking, man. It’s sticking. So next time we’re
hosting Matt Trainer. This is a guy who for most people doesn’t need no
introduction. However just in case you don’t know Matt Trainer is one of the
first internet marketers to ever work in Hollywood. He built drphil.com. He
built Paris Hilton’s first website. He worked with Frank Kern behind the
scenes of Mass Control and Mass Control 2.0. Most recently he started a project
called Team WUKAR, which stands for Wake Up, Kick Ass, Repeat. They dominated
the company called Dubli and just pretty much just cashed in big time and
built a gigantic team. So anyway, the guy, he’s got the Midas touch when it
comes to working from home. He’s got a unique personality, which is very
different from most personalities I meet on the internet, so I decided to invite
him, interview him, and see what he has to say about what’s the fastest way
to succeed working from home.

Jonathan: Excellent. Looking forward to that. So boys and girls, this is the
end of another List Building Lifestyle, but we will be back in your ear buds
next time. Thanks for tuning in.

Thanks for listening to The List Building Lifestyle Show, make sure to subscribe on iTunes
or Google. Play to never miss an episode because who knows just one conversion tactic
we share on the show might double your list and double your business. Download the
transcript of today’s episode and all future episodes at listbuilderslifestyleshow.com and
don’t forget to claim your complimentary copy of “The Wealthy List Builder’s Survival
Guide” at listbuildinglifestyleshow.com/survival . This is Igor Kheifets until next time we talk, have a good one.

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