Super-Affiliate Secrets With Patric Chan


Igor interviews the founder of CB Passive Income, the most popular affiliate marketing offer on Clickbank.com. Igor picks Patric’s brain by making him go back in time and share his biggest mistakes, biggest lessons and struggles. You should listen to this episode if you’d like to know the fastest way to become a super-affiliate.

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Igor Kheifets: I'm Igor Kheifets and this is the List Building Lifestyle, a podcast
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Welcome back to another edition of the List Building Lifestyle with your host, Igor Kheifets. Today I'm hosting my friend Patric Chan. He's a coauthor of Clicking Cash, the book he coauthored with Robert G Allen, the real estate investing author, and he's also the founder of CB Passive Income, one of the longest-standing, I think highest-earning ClickBank offers on the market, if, again, if my stats are correct. So definitely somebody who's a ... we would consider a super affiliate, an intermarketing superstar, a quote unquote a guru, right? And finally, after about three years of trying to get him on the show, I was finally able to secure this interview, so Patric, thank you so much for being here.

Patric Chan: Hey, thanks for the introduction, and it's a privilege for me to be here with you and to featured here, so, it's definitely an honor here. And let's see what I can contribute to your audience.

Igor Kheifets: Sure, absolutely. You know, I've got the perfect way to set us off into this this interview. You know one of the biggest concepts that I've learned as far as either growing into success or, I guess, wanting to become a little bit more successful and being more intentional about success, is the concept of future Igor, right? So it's a concept where you imagine yourself exactly where you are right now, and then you try to imagine what would you like to become in the future. And then try to mastermind with yourself and see what you would recommend to yourself in this situation right now if you were that ideal person you want to become in the future. I know it's a little bit confusing, but it basically requires you to be able to look forward into time and try to see the kind of person you want to become. Now to launch us into this interview, I want to do, I want to go into the past. I wanna still play with time, but I wanna go into the past and I wanna ask you this: If you had a DeLorean, right, or time machine, and you could go back, I don't know, uh, you've been online for at least what, 15 years now? Probably more than that?

Patric Chan: Yeah.

Igor Kheifets: Yeah. So if you could go back about 15 or 20 years when you first got started online, what would be the first thing you would tell yourself?

Patric Chan: I think that what I'm experiencing right now is that I realize that the value of building assets is so critical in today's success. And let's say I was to, you know, to rewind back to back to the future with the time machine, I think that I would focus on building the brand, so to speak. Now I know this whole concept of the brand, it's pretty wide. It's hard to define, how do you define a brand? Let me just put it this way. Like, for instance, Igor, you have done a great job with your brand, so when people think about you they think about traffic, and not just traffic, but "Hey, you know this guy sends good traffic, responsive traffic" and so on. So you know you have that brand. And when I got started, I wasn't truly focusing on building the brand, you know I was everywhere on the net, you know trying to make money here and there and so on. At one time, I think it was about two zero zero five or something like that, I've got this brand called You Chan Do It. It's an interesting brand that was given to me by a friend of mine by the name of Stephen Pierce, who [inaudible 00:04:25] at that time, one of the top in his league. So he was saying to me, "Hey, you know, you oughta build this brand, it's called You Chan Do It." And I says, "What kinda of silly brand is that?" And he says, "You know your name is Patric Chan, so You Chan Do It." And you know he has this tone, and he's a very big heart person, and [inaudible 00:04:48] size and everything else. So when he says that to me, I didn't really get it, but after he explained to me the whole concept of "Hey, you live in Asia, you live in this part of the world, and yet you can achieve all of this success despite being an ordinary person, and so that's why it's you Chan do it, as in you can do it." I loved that brand when he give it to me, and I start building on that, it picks up, and I was selling program, my courses and so on. And after that I sort of let go of the brand. I wasn't building deeper into the brand, and it's just gone by. Fast-forward to today, and I realize that, you know, that by having the right brand, that's how you attract all the sales and success. Many people think of doing, let's say, affluent marketing, right? They do mailing lists, which is a great asset, as in every affluent marketer would be recommended to build your own mailing list. Now the thing is that, the challenge is that everybody is trying to compete with each other to promote the same product launch. And I so of figured out, sort of cracked the code of how to be at the top with affluent promotion and so on. And I'm not saying this to blow my own horn or anything like that. It's just referring back to my old results. And I realized that "Hey, I don't have a bigger lease than other people, I don't troll bigger bonuses than other people." The only difference is that I build my brand with my lease, so they identify me as a different affluent marketer, so to speak, and that's how I was able to become the top jury partners or, as they call it, super-affluency [inaudible 00:06:40]. So it short, when I talk about looking back, what it would be something that I would be doing differently is focusing on building asset. And brand is definitely the asset that I would put a lot of weight on.

Igor Kheifets: All right, that makes sense. So you're saying that it's fine that you're building a list, that's obviously something you should be doing, but it's even better when you're positioned differently with your list, meaning that when you're capable of creating a feeling or a perception that whenever somebody thinks of a certain thing, they think of you. So for me, you know, when people think of traffic or email traffic or [inaudible 00:07:17], they think of me. Right, for you when people think of ClickBanks super-affiliates, or when they think of cloning and online business, they think of you. And for what you're suggesting is for anyone who wants to become an affiliate marketer and make a lot of money, they should be building this asset rather than chasing fast results, which incidentally don't really show up anyway. So a lot of times people end up wasting that time. And you know I came across a study by ClickBank the other day, and they say that less than 1% of people in ClickBank.com who get into the affiliate marketing space actually end up making any money or changing their life significantly.

Patric Chan: (surprised utterance)

Igor Kheifets: Yeah, which I find to be pretty much just the same as when I got started. When I got started the failure rates online and in the affluent marketing space were also quite ridiculously high, and I understand why. I understand why. Because if you're not different, if you're not standing out and you're promoting the same product that everybody else promotes, then what is exactly the reason for the consumer to buy from you. Because online, unlike in a physical environment, right?

Patric Chan: Uh-huh (affirmative)

Igor Kheifets: Your competitors are within a fingertip reach, same way as you are.

Patric Chan: Yeah.

Igor Kheifets: They're just as visible, and they have the same tools and the same outreach. So that's cool. Now, again, we're still back in the past; we're still taking to the newbie Patric.

Patric Chan: Right.

Igor Kheifets: So you just told him, "Okay, Patric, the first thing you gotta do is build an asset, build a brand." I guess what would be some of the action steps that young Patric would need to take to at least lay the foundation for a successful online brand?

Patric Chan: Right. Okay, we've briefly covered in a sense that you're gonna be known for something. You cannot be known as just an affluent marketer. You have to be known, you're an affluent marketer, for something, right? And in terms of the practical ground, the best way for you to be a brand is to create your own product. So let's say I'm a newbie; I'm trying to do affluent marketing. Now the whole concept here of building a product doesn't means that you need to create a product in order for you to sell the product. You see, the product becomes and extension of your brand, so now you are--in a sense I'm talking to myself, so I would just change the context of this presentation into me talking to myself. So I would tell myself, "Hey, you know what, Patric? You gotta have your own product by your name because now you can tell people you are the creator of blah blah blah, whatever the name of the product's name is." So I realized that when I launched my first course, the first official course that I'm proud of called the Chan Do Internet Successes, I realized that I'm at a different level, so to speak. Like, I'm taken more seriously in a sense. So even though if you create your own product and it doesn't sells, and that's still okay because now you sort of one leap above the rest of the affluent, so to speak. Now if don't create a product, you can write a book, however the book doesn't have as much value, or should I say perceived value of what your offer is. Let me expand this a bit more technical. So one of the ways how we do affluent marketing is that whenever there is a promotion going on, I don't throw bonuses, like, you know, think 100 [inaudible 00:10:58] for us and put it together and throw some bonuses. We don't do that. Each time there's a product launch, we would actually create a unique bonus specifically for that. And we just have one bonus to compete with any other affiliates that throw out five or six or ten bonuses. But we keep the bonus unique. Now, going back to the past Patric, I would tell the past Patric, "Hey, you know you should start creating products right now. It doesn't matter if it doesn't sells, but make sure you create valuable products." Because now you'll be known as the product creator of whatever the product's name is. And when you are promoting affluent programs, you can be adding these products as the bonuses to whichever promotion that you're doing. So I'm just going to pause it here, so the audience can kind of follow the advice here. And I'm open to questions from here onwards.

Igor Kheifets: Right, so what you're saying is you have to be known for something. You have to be more than just an affiliate marketer. You have to be an affiliate marketer with a mission. And one of the best ways to do it, is to create a product around a certain topic or niche or expertise event of some kind.

Patric Chan: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Igor Kheifets: Which then allows you to kind of position yourself in a unique category in the niche. So even if you're not 100% unique, you're still gonna be way more unique, and you're gonna be standing out from a crowd of, I don't know, 100,000 affiliates promoting the same products to the same market.

Patric Chan: Mm-hmm (affirmative). And I want to add on this, is that, when we talk about creating a product. Let's say we're going to do something about list building. We're not going to create a product, say it's a step-by-step system on how to build lists. You know. That is lame. That is what everyone else is doing. When I mention about creating a product, the product has to be unique in terms of the angle, in terms of the specification of it, or in terms of the brand itself. So, for instance, I may want to be known as the Twitter List Builder. So I have this secret, I have this system on how you can build a mailing list by just using Twitter, for instance. That's what I mean about creating a product and being known for something, something that is very specific. It still covers the whole nine yards of list building, but the methodology of achieving that is unique.

Igor Kheifets: Yeah, and there's a word you just mentioned. "Angle." This is, I think, one of the most common used words when I build a promotion. It's always about the angle. The first hour of working on a promotion is always about figuring out the angles. And I think the angle for an affiliate is a big concept to grasp because those who understand it, those who know how to manipulate angles--and I use the word manipulate in a positive context of controlling the frame with which the product is received here--so I guess my question here is, what is an angle. You know, what exactly is an angle?

Patric Chan: It depends on which part of promotion that you're doing, in other word, ironically which part of the angle that you are do, you are [inaudible 00:14:20]. I mean is the broad angle where you're known for something. I know this is very abstract, what we are talking about. So I'm gonna give you a very simple example, so to speak. So, for instance, let's take an example of Tim Ferriss's 4-Hour Workweek. So his brand is about how to achieve all the work in four hours, but if you look at it, it's actually about outsourcing, productivity, and so forth. But he didn't come out with a book and says that "Hey, I'm gonna teach you how to outsource. I'm gonna teach you about productivity. I'm gonna teach you about efficiency." He's not doing that. He has this four-hour work week, so that literally covers a whole different kind of angle by itself. Now that is on the broad angle, so to speak. But let's say we're doing mini promotions. This is more technical. Let's say we're doing Igor promotion, right? So let's say I'm promoting Igor's product. Let's say, Igor, you have a program on list building or traffic.

Igor Kheifets: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Patric Chan: Okay. So let's say you have a program about traffic, right? So if I was to promote to my mailing list, I'm gonna angle it do their favor, so I got to know what is my audience all about. What do they like? So let's say I know that they are into affluent marketing, which means that when I promote Igor's traffic course, I will angle it that the traffic is for affluent marketing. So that's what I mean where we're going into a very micro for the angle itself. Now when I do it that way, then of course the audience will be more receptive towards your product. Because now it's talking to their language. So if I was to promote you and say, "Hey, you know, this is a great cause, this is an advance program that on. It's about traffic." Now the program is definitely a great program, however they could not see it. They are still thinking about affluent marketing. That's what I mean about angle. I hope that it makes sense.

Igor Kheifets: So what you're saying is, you're able to segment or present a solution as it relates to a certain group of people, perhaps, certain market segments, so traffic for affiliate marketers, traffic for ecommerce businesses, traffic for agencies and so on and so forth. That could be one form of an angle.

Patric Chan: Well, interestingly is that, you're the one who get to chose the angle that you want. So what I'm trying to say is this: the product could be about traffic, but it can be angled as in like traffic for affluent marketing.

Igor Kheifets: Right. Absolutely. So it's a solution to a certain type of problem not all the problems.

Patric Chan: Yeah, even though if the cost, the program, the product is for everything, but we do not want to say that it's for everything. We want to say that it is for affluent marketing specifically. And that is what I define by the angle.

Igor Kheifets: Right. Are there any other ways to angle things aside from relating to a particular market segment?

Patric Chan: I could not think of, at this moment of time, the way how I do it is that, when I look for the product and promoting, I will make sure that I speak of that product the way how my audience wants to hear about it. I mean, that's how I've been doing it.

Igor Kheifets: Right. So can you give us an example?

Patric Chan: So, let's take CB Passive Income. Now I'm saying this because it's my own product and it's easier for me to relate because I understand [inaudible 00:18:06] of that. CB Passive Income could be angled in, well many angles, it could be a system to build a ClickBank business. It could be a system to build a list. It could be a system for affluent marketing. It could be also angle as our turnkey home-based business of [inaudible 00:18:28]. And the latest angle that we're using right now it's on funnel because funnel is tied to hopper stopping. So leading to this and to answer to your question in this context, is that seeing that the market is more favored to its funnel right now, we will angle CB Passive Income as a turnkey solution to launching your own funnel without building it by yourself.

Igor Kheifets: Right. And of course we'll have Russell Brunson to thank for introducing the word funnel to the rest of the world.

Patric Chan: Precisely. He had done such a great job of educating the whole industry of hopper [inaudible 00:19:11]. I mean he has taken funnel, the whole concept to the whole next level.

Igor Kheifets: Yeah, absolutely, he's a great messenger of the funnel, which of course serves his company probably more so than it serves anybody else, but I see why the market is more responsive to the word funnel and to the word done for you funnel or clone my funnel, than being responsive to something else. So that makes perfect sense. So what you're saying, what I'm hearing is you take an existing product--and you've got CB Passive Income; you've had it for a long time now--and you've relaunched it five times, and each time all you've done, aside from updating the content, I'm assuming, you've simply positioned it with a different angle depending on what the marketplace is more responsive towards at that point in time.

Patric Chan: Yeah. You nailed it. We upgrade the system accordingly to what the market wants. So for instance, this year it's about funnel, so we developed the offers to be more funnel-driven in a sense. So we are telling that "Hey, you can promote a dam for your funnel." Instead of saying you could promote a dam for your list building page. So five years ago, everybody is talking about "Hey, I need a system to build a mailing list." But today people are talking about how can I build my funnel.

Igor Kheifets: Right because everyone wants to build one, and of course what you're saying is, "rather than getting, you know, clickfunnels or actually building one, why don't you allow me to copy and paste my funnel for you?"

Patric Chan: Yep. Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Igor Kheifets: Now you're still not letting go of the old angle, such as build a list. It's just you're moving them, I guess more of as like an afterthought or maybe like-

Patric Chan: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Igor Kheifets: - a bulletin on a sales page, rather than the primary big bold message at the top of your sales pages and at the beginning of your via sales.

Patric Chan: Yep.

Yo, it's Igor. If you're loving the content hop on over to listbuildinglifestyleshow.com for more free training and a free transcript of this episode. Oh, and I'd really appreciate if you logged into iTunes and rated the show. It really helps. Thanks.

Okay, that makes perfect sense, and the interesting thing about our industry is that the people who make a lot of money figured it out, right? They understood, they understand the power of funnels. And I was at this Mastermind at TNC, where a bunch of people came together. Everyone in the room had at least one million-dollar webinar.And they were talking about how you don't really need lots of products. They were talking about how you need one product but many offers. And I guess what they meant was you need one product and many angles selling that product. Because you can take one offer and or one product and you can reposition it so many times, and you can basically be hitting different market segments or hitting on different messages of the same market, and as a result, you can thrive.

Patric Chan: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Well that's definitely an interesting concept, and every expert and every guru and so on, I believe that they have the old system, the old business model. So I think that it falls back to the core object why we're doing what we're doing. I know it may sounds philosophical, but for me I don't offer any Mastermind mentoring courses [inaudible 00:22:33]. I mean I've done that in the past, but my business model is focused more towards [inaudible 00:22:40] item products. And because my whole concept is this, is that I want to build a business where I can still and I have automated without me being involved in the process. So I've created this system called Operation Zero Employees way back in two zero one five. And I've only taught only a few top marketers in this region. So the whole concept is how to build a business with zero employees and to be out of the system, so to speak. Now, this is what I mean, it's like, for me it is more fine. I'm not saying that I wouldn't do this forever. It's like I used to do a 25K mentoring program and so on, and I sort of realized that that takes up a lot of my time. I mean that's just not the model that I want. I would prefer to sell like a $500 product, even to the price of a $1,000 product perhaps and go for the mass market. A big chunk of my income actually comes from the $100 product. I know it's just a whole different model, and I'm pretty sure that many gurus and experts would not agree with my model.

Igor Kheifets: Oh yeah, I wouldn't. I mean I'll be honest with you. If my product line ended with $100 products, I would probably not be able to scale my business to where it is today.

Patric Chan: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Igor Kheifets: One of the things that I'm noticing for almost all super, super big businesses in our industry, is that they all have either a high-ticket or an ultrahigh-ticket element to them, where they end up making big money. In fact, I'm seeing a lot of people build businesses with low- to mid-ticket on the front end just so they can sell something big on the back, and I'm seeing them doing it at a loss a lot of times too because for many of them it's really hard to maintain a profitable business if they're driving a lot of co-traffic. Now your business, I mean we have to be honest about that, your business is driven by affiliates, right?

Patric Chan: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Right.

Igor Kheifets: Not so much by co-traffic, which is one of the primary advantages of having a product from ClickBank. You can have thousands of people get your traffic for you.

Patric Chan: Right.

Igor Kheifets: So this is where you can generate customers at a profit by simply sharing a commission rather than going out there and building traffic campaigns.

Patric Chan: It makes sense. So I think that the way how ClickBank or marketers may be a bit different--now again, I'm not saying that this goes across the board for everyone, but for instance my situation with another ClickBank product in the [inaudible 00:25:14] niche, or a [inaudible 00:25:17] niche, right? They probably would not have a $5,000 program or a $10,000 program, but because they both sold many units per day with their affiliates, they just don't need to have the $5,000 product [inaudible 00:25:30].

Igor Kheifets: Right, right, okay, that makes sense.

Patric Chan: So the model is a bit different in that context. I'm not sure whether you get what I mean.

Igor Kheifets: I understand what you mean. Basically it's more about doing what's right for the customer than being driven by the bottom line and finding something to sell regardless of whether or not there's an actual need for it.

Patric Chan: Well, the customer would definitely benefit more if we offer them say a $5,000 mentoring program and so on because then they'll be able to get better results. But what I'm saying is that at the other end of that spectrum is that, if I'm doing the mentoring for the $5,000 and so on, it means that a big chunk of my time will be taken away. Say, for instance, before I get onto this session right now, I was with my kids, and letting them go to sleep and hanging out with them and so on. So it's just that the whole concept for me when it comes to [inaudible 00:26:30] an intermarketing business empire, it's about having the time and the freedom, in that sense.

Igor Kheifets: Yeah, I know what you mean. Basically what you're saying is, and I went through this with my own mentoring program, is when you charge someone 5K, you feel obligated to spend a lot of time with them and helping them and really thinking about them just as much as you think about your own business. But the capacity that you have on a daily basis to invest in your business is limited, therefore you're choosing lifestyle over bigger profit margins and your own lifestyle and peace of mind over sacrificing yourself [crosstalk 00:27:09].

Patric Chan: You're definitely right on the nail in that sense. So there is no right or wrong. I know this discussion is a bit more controversial than normal. And we're having this casual chat and so on, I just thought of bringing this up. For me it's like if I was sell say a $5,000 program from a client, I'd rather sell maybe five shares of $1,000 each. Or maybe I would prefer to sell 10 shares of $500, so then I would not need to concentrate too much on my one client.

Igor Kheifets: Right. Got it. And this way you can create digital delivery mechanisms rather than having to deliver a lot of it yourself.

Patric Chan: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yep. Right.

Igor Kheifets: So your business remains scalable.

Patric Chan: Right. Precisely. And again there's this totally cool with selling $5,000, $10,000 and so on. Like, for instance, I know Russell have a very high-level program, and a client of mine, who I introduced to join Russell's program became a partner of these two [inaudible 00:28:22] club and [inaudible 00:28:23] and he's very happy to spend his $25K or $50K or so on. And it's a great model, and Russell adds so much value to that person. But at the same time there are a lot of the gurus, experts, and so on, so-called coaches who teach people to become coaches in order to sell a high-ticket products. I mean, it's questionable whether someone should charge that high price when sometimes they are not at that level. So it's a whole different issue. I just open a can of worms into a whole different discussion. For instance, you may charge five grand, ten grand, and so on because you have the results to show, right? But there are people out there who will say, "Hey, you know what? Go ahead and trust someone one night in seven because that's how you made a lot of money." And I just think that from the integrity from the ethical point of view, that is just not correct.

Igor Kheifets: So looking at this, right? I mean, you're obviously working in an industry that works against this mindset, so how do you deal with it? I mean, just on a personal level, how do you deal being different from almost everyone else in this industry?

Patric Chan: I keep good relationships, good friends, good fellas, and I sort of build my business in my own ecosystem in a sense. Because I [inaudible 00:29:52] with ClickBank, so I cooperate with ClickBank as a company. I have executives to assist me and so on. So I donate at events and marshal my [inaudible 00:30:03] resources because the demographic just doesn't make sense. So I think as long as we are focused in what we are doing and we know what we are contributing to the marketplace and taking care of our customers, I think everything is quite cool. It works quite well.

Igor Kheifets: Right. So you're basically like live and let live the philosophy is-

Patric Chan: Say what?

Igor Kheifets: Live and let live. Basically it'd be like, "Okay, this is my way of doing things, and I'm gonna stick to my little universe here. And I'm not gonna mess with anybody else and they won't mess with me."

Patric Chan: Yeah. I would say similar to that, yeah.

Igor Kheifets: Okay. Cool. Cool. All right. Cool. Obviously now that we sort of like dug into your past a little bit and we've kinda figured out that you've overall stayed on the right path, just you probably wished you'd gone there a little bit faster, but you obviously had to learn a few lessons before you could realize that. So now you're at a place where you've got strong brand. You're at a place where you've got lots of traffic coming in from affiliates. You're at a place where you're established, and in a way, your business is sort of bulletproof because even if every single one of your assets tanks tomorrow, the Patric Chan brand doesn't go anywhere, right? People will still be able to recognize you as an authority. So what does the future hold? Where do you plan to take on your company next?

Patric Chan: Let's focus back on the digital products and goals. So the main key focus right now is to build membership in this model. That's gonna be the key. So for the next 6 months or 12 months, the focus is how we can sell more memberships. Now I'm using a lot of the marketing [inaudible 00:31:56] selling membership and so on because it's easier for the audience to relate. So instead of focusing on high-tickets products and so on, every single products or ours will lead back to a membership program. And that's where we're just gonna keep on focusing on.

Igor Kheifets: Well, it's all about selling more memberships at this point.

Patric Chan: Mm-hmm (affirmative). So like we have certain ... for instance we have turned CB Passive Income into a membership product rather than a one-time offer.

Igor Kheifets: Oh. I get it. Okay. Cool. There's some challenges with that too, I think, when you go and your switch to a multi-subscription model, you'll probably have to deal with retention-

Patric Chan: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Igor Kheifets: And billing, and stuff like that, which seems to be a big problem in that category.

Patric Chan: That's true.

Igor Kheifets: Cool. Cool. Yeah, we've actually started experimenting with the membership ourselves, and what we're finding is we end up spending a lot of time trying to make sure people pay on time.

Patric Chan: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Igor Kheifets: You know for example, payments skip a lot. Like 50% of the time pay, you know, credit card fail to bill or, you know, all sorts of things like that. And I personally don't find too enjoyable to deal with at all.

Patric Chan: Mm-mm (negative).

Igor Kheifets: Right. And then what it does, is it skews my perception of what I think my business is. Like, if I know I've got, say, 50 grand in rebills, I'm like, "Yay, 50 grand in rebills." And then when the actual rebills happen, it's like, "Oh it's only 20 grand. Why?" Because you know, 68% of the time the card doesn't get charged. It's like, "Aww."

Patric Chan: That happens, yeah. I know exactly what you mean. Yeah we have the same problem as well.

Igor Kheifets: All right. Cool. So who's Future Patric? So Patric 10 years from now, who is that guy?

Patric Chan: Right would be more known as an author. So one of the goal I strive for is to be more of an author and perhaps a speaker as well, instead of a marketing author. What do I mean by that. So, for instance, my mentor and friend, also my co-author of Clicking Cash is Robert G Allen. So Robert Allen is an author in the sense that Simon & Schuster, all the big book publisher asking him to write a book. So when you're an author in the sense that you focus more on selling the books and people should read the books, the book is all around the world [inaudible 00:34:29]. That is want I would want to focus on, and my speaking as well. Oh, by the way, the one I did not mention is that I run all events. I usually speak for other platforms as a platform speaker, and I spoke for a company called [inaudible 00:34:50] which is probably the largest seminar organizer in the world today. The used to be just in Asia, but now they are in States and so on. They bring people like Tony Robbins, Robert Kiyosaki, Gary Vaynerchuk and so on. So I used to speak on platforms all around the world, in that respect. Now I do my own assignments, do my own workshops and so on. But those are not really speaking like a keynote paid speaker. So if you're saying like 10 years down the road, that is where I will strive to achieve, to become like a a recognized author and perhaps do some speaking. vIgor Kheifets: Right. So it sounds like you scaled on speaking recent years, but you're looking to get back in the game?

Patric Chan: I want to stay on a different angle and a different platform in a sense. There's two kinds of speakers. There are speakers who are platform speakers where they speak as themselves, which is great, and I'm doing that and I love doing that. And there's another type of speaker, who is like John Maxwell, Brian Tracy, and so on, where they usually don't sell anything, but they are just paid speakers.

Igor Kheifets: Got it. So you prefer to give value from the stage rather than to show up to sell packages.

Patric Chan: Still gonna do that, right. A bit of both. I still love selling. I still love selling on stage.

Igor Kheifets: All right.

Patric Chan: So that's [inaudible 00:36:18].

Igor Kheifets: Okay. Cool. Well, it's interesting to see an internet marketer who wants to scale his business in a digital way. You know striving to go and become an author and become a speaker because for me the transition is also very similar where I've just finished my book and I'm hopeful to release it next month as of the moment we're recording this. I'm also, you know, my wet dream is to become that sort of speaker that gets paid to come in and speak just because of his authority and his presence.

Patric Chan: Yeah.

Igor Kheifets: It's such a different mindset than the one I had when I started. Because when I started all I wanted to do was be one of those invisible internet millionaires nobody knows about.

Patric Chan: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Igor Kheifets: And now it's about moving from the internet into, okay, my ego demands to be addressed as an author.

Patric Chan: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Igor Kheifets: You know.

Patric Chan: Yep. Yep.

Igor Kheifets: It's a very, very interesting transition.

Patric Chan: Yeah.

Igor Kheifets: Cool. Fantastic. So before we wrap up, what would be your parting words? Maybe a piece of advice for the listeners.

Patric Chan: The most classic question that people like to ask is, "What is the secret to success?" And I'm sure that you get that a lot of time as well from your audience and so forth. So I think that that it's no one real secret to success. There is no one magic pill, but that magic pill does exist. So what is the so-called secret to all success? And I think it boils down to just one thing. The one thing is called consistency. It's about doing the same thing every single day that has been proven to work. So, for instance, we discover that list building is a must in our industry, and we started building that since day one, and we never stop doing that. As we speak right now, at least some form of list building is happening. And that's what I mean by being consistent. Continue to do the same thing, over and over and over again. I wrote this book called Wake Up Millionaire and it's in Amazon. So the whole concept of Wake Up Millionaire it's not about waking up the millionaire in you that kind of mindset stuff like that. It's basically the concept that one day you wake up and there will be a million dollar in your bank because you are doing the right thing every day. And you wake up as a millionaire after, say, 12 months or 13 months and so on. So what I'm trying to say, is this, whatever that you are doing right now, if you are seeing the results, it is not because it is broken. It is just that the time hasn't come yet. The so-called tipping point is not there yet. But you gotta be consistent, consistently doing the same thing over and over and over again, and many people stop doing that, not because they don't see the results. Sometimes it is just so freaking bored, they stop doing it. It is this boring thing that will make you become the so-called, quote unquote millionaire in that sense.

Igor Kheifets: All right. Yeah, so becoming a millionaire is a result of mastering, I would say, one thing. It's really not that big of a deal whether it's list building or CPA marketing or creating your own products. Most of the time, your first million comes from doing that one thing right. And for some people those things can be different. For me, the one thing that made me a millionaire was Solo Ads. For you the one thing that made you a millionaire was creating your own products and having people drive traffic to it. Or maybe it was seminars, maybe it was something else. Primarily to get to your first million, doing that one thing and really mastering the one thing, whatever that one thing is for you, will be it. And then progression from their first million to their 10th million, that's when you're gonna start picking up some extra skills, but until then, yeah, you have to pick that one thing and just literally do it every day. And that's how you get to that big, big, big [inaudible 00:40:31] paycheck. All right. Well, Patric, thank you so much for spending this time together. This has been very, very informative. I appreciate you opening up and showing us behind the scenes of not just your business but also your inner world and I appreciate that.

Patric Chan: Thank you very much, Igor. Thank you.

Igor Kheifets: Until next time we chat, have a good one.

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Who Is Igor Kheifets

Igor Kheifets is the founder and CEO of Igor Solo Ads, world’s largest Solo Ads agency. He’s the guy the gurus call when they need high quality business opportunity leads that convert.

Igor’s passionate about sharing up-to-date traffic & conversion strategies that work with beginners who want to make six figures while traveling the world full time.

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