00:00

Hi. I’m Igor Kheifets and this is the list building lifestyle. The podcast for anyone who wants to build a wildly profitable email list working from home. If you’d like to make six figures travel the world and help people improve their lives in the process, this podcast is for you. I also invite you to claim a free copy of my bestselling book, the list building lifestyle Confessions of an email millionaire at www.igorsbook.com. Get the free book plus $3,000 bonus package that includes my best capture page templates, email, swipe files, and traffic blueprints, visit www.igorsbook.com for details. And now it’s time to claim your list building lifestyle.

00:50

Welcome to the list building lifestyle. I’m your host, Igor Kheifets and today we’re gonna chat about how to extract the most money from your list. To do it correctly, to do it ethically, to do it correctly, and how to do it by basically talking to your list the right way, we’re going to talk about what you’re doing with your list right now, not how to grow with it but rather how to communicate with it. Because my guest today, Greg from emailmagic.com is advocating the idea that the most impact that you can have on your list is by changing or improving the way you communicate with your subscribers. And of course, he’s got the results to prove it because he’s been consistently producing over $10 per subscriber per month, which let me tell you, as an email marketer that is extremely, extremely impressive, because I know a lot of people with lots of lists both big and small, who can never reach that sort of number. And it’s because of how lazy they are when it comes to communicating with their list. So in this episode, pay close attention, if you’re not doing a great job right now, talking to your list or communicating or writing to your list. And if you’re planning to build a profitable list down the road. So, Greg, welcome to the list building lifestyle.

02:07

Thank you, Igor, I am happy to be here.

02:11

Awesome, we’re happy to have you because, you know, I’ve been on your list for a few months, I think I got on your list somewhere in the middle of last year. And what I found sort of fascinating is that there was no pitch, like in the very first email that I got from you, there really was no pitch, it was really well written, it communicated in a really nice and personal way. But there was nothing for sale. And you know, I come from the philosophy from the school of thought that when you get them dressed up, you need to give them somewhere to go. So there’s always something that I’ll be pitching in my emails, whether it’s a webinar, or a free giveaway, or an offer of some kind, but there will be something that you can click on. And what I distinctly remember is that for the first week, I think there was no link, there was nothing for me to go and buy from your email. So when you say you’re pulling $10 per subscriber per month, I’m like, what? That doesn’t make any sense. So can you unpack your welcome sequence for us? Just so we can get an idea?

03:19

Yeah, sure. That’s a great question. So first, I want to start by saying that the email list that I’m building that you’re on, was kind of an experiment for me. It was really like, how can I? How can I do this email marketing thing, the way that I want to do it and still have it be successful? Because I feel like I have just kind of a different philosophy coming into this. So you see some of that in the welcome series, my welcome series is just three emails, and what it is just setting expectations and nothing else. So in the first email, I basically, briefly introduce myself and acknowledge that people signed up. I tell them, there’s another email coming tomorrow. And if you don’t mind, taking a few seconds, go ahead and hit reply. It just sent me a blank email. There’s nothing in it. And all that is basically a deliverability hack. I’m trying to instantly get whitelisted without asking them to whitelist me, and you’d be shocked by the number of people that do that. But almost every single person who signs up, just hits reply real fast, sends me a blank email. And then that usually guarantees that the next one ends up in their inbox, which is awesome, because I’ve seen this with less news before . Sometimes your welcome series goes to junk, like people never even see it. It’s like they’re there. Their journey with you is over before it even begins. So I want to try to hit that off immediately. In a second email I basically just kind of throw down, like, whatever credibility I have, like I explained who I am and what they can expect to hear from me. And if this is your, you know, if this sounds fun, stick around, and if not unsubscribe, so I’m immediately trying to filter people. So, again, I focus on the people who want to be there. And if people are not going to open my emails, then they’re not, they’re definitely not going to click my calls to action. And so it’s a waste of everybody’s time. So the theme here is like, I’d rather have a smaller, high quality list than the larger right. And then the third email is, I think more just giving them some of my, what I’d call like, nuggets of wisdom, like, things that I believe to be true that are maybe a little unconventional from what they’ve heard from other marketers. And I give them something to click, and there’s like a video to go watch. So I’m getting a click right there, because that’s another factor in improving deliverability. So the welcome series is set up, so that they understand exactly who I am and what I’m going to deliver. And my chances of being inboxed after that welcome series, I want to be very high. And that’s all there’s no offer at all in the welcome series. So beyond that, I send at least one email, I’m only sending, like one or two emails a week, which I know, you’re gonna say is crazy. Like, why aren’t you sending daily? Greg?

06:39

Why aren’t you sending daily Greg?

06:42

And, you know, here’s the thing, like, I know that sending daily works, right? I know, you do that. I’ve seen other guys do that successfully. But the other thing that I know is that sending daily, you’ll have more revenue, but you’ll also have a higher unsubscribe rate, it’s just a fact. Yeah, you’re going to have more turnover, the more often you send, and so the sending date, like sent daily, but if you’re sending daily, you have to have a consistent plan for replenishing and growing the list on the other side, otherwise, you’re gonna get into trouble, right? And the way that I approached this, this list, again, is I wanted to dial in, what it was about, what my voice was, what we were going to be doing, before I really cranked the juice on lead acquisition. So because of that, I’m not actively growing outside of organic traffic and referrals. I want to be careful about watching the unsubscribe rate in relation to my subscribe rate. And since I don’t have a, I don’t have a huge traffic source turned on right now. I have, I believe that I’ve really maximized value that I can deliver people value that I can pull from people and maintaining a healthy list attrition rate by sending like, you know, between one and three times a week. Now, when I have traffic coming in every day, I think daily makes more sense. But I just want to point out that at a certain stage, daily may not make sense. Like when you’re on the smaller side, when you’re still growing and kind of dialing in your voice your offers and what that cadence is. I think it’s better to start slow and make sure that you scale what works. And don’t risk burning them out. I’ve burned a list before. By the way, I’ve torched a list that was close to 10,000 people. And I know that was a bad experience. And I think I’m just a little hesitant and gun shy to ever do that again. And so I tend to be a little bit more conservative in sending cadence again, making sure that it’s really high quality every single time.

09:13

Yeah, that makes sense. So you’re concerned with losing people because you don’t you don’t have a consistent stream of new people coming in. I’m assuming it’s because you’re getting some organic leads, but not necessarily like you don’t really have like a steady flow of paid ads running or a consistent flow of JV partners, you know, promoting you or the consistent flow of content that’s been producing subscribers on a daily or weekly basis to a point where you can kind of predict what’s going to happen

09:46

100% and that was intentional. For the first year that I was doing this. This next year I’m going to be turning on the traffic. So you know the cadence will change but what I wanted to do is make sure that I had a rock solid system in place, that I had something that was worth scaling before I scaled it. And I feel like that’s where I am. One of the things that I want to throw out there, I think most people know that there are different factors that impact the value of their list. Obviously, one of them is its size. You know, the more people that you can put offers in front of, the more opportunity that you have to sell. And then I think we all know that quality is also important, right? We’ve all probably seen a difference between quality leads who are in alignment with what we have to offer, versus junk leads, right big difference. But the third factor in determining the value of a list is, what degree of influence we have over the readers over the subscribers, because I’m on a bunch of other people’s lists. And there are people who I open every single email with, and I read every single email, because they have a great deal of influence over me. I want to hear every word that they speak because they deliver so much value to me consistently. There are other lists where I, you know, I liked the person I liked their content, but I might only, you know, if they’re sending daily, I might click in once a week, because I don’t feel like I don’t have that same feeling of FOMO. Like, oh, no, I’ve missed six out of seven. This is going to be a disaster for you know, for me, for my life and my business. So, and there are other lists where I don’t know how I got on them, right? And it’s just, you know, when I’m only on it for as long as I am too lazy to click the unsubscribe button. Right? Those people have zero influence over me. So again, I think we all like to acknowledge that as list owners, we have different degrees of influence over different people there. And when we’re on other people’s lists, again, there’s people whose every word we hang on, and there are others, we’re there. They’re kind of casually part of our awareness, but we’re not reading every single thing that they send us. So what I wanted to do is like how much influence can I create in a very small list? And that has been? That’s been what I’ve been playing with for the last year. How much candy? How much can these people possibly know, like, and trust me, just by just me sharing my thoughts and marketing philosophy and some unconventional nuggets of wisdom, right? Would anybody read that and care? And listen? And the answer is, yes, there are. People who are my open rates are actually awesome, I get, like 70% opens on my bi weekly sense. So that when I actually do have a call to action in there, a large number of my total eyeballs see that and click it just really to see what’s there. Right. So I, I, I feel like I build up desire. And then when I do finally throw an offer out there, there’s more interest, there’s more credibility with it. And so, again, this is sometimes like my own unconventional beliefs. I know that the other way also works. So I’m not saying I’m right. And, you know, the other way is wrong. I’m just saying that this also works. And this is how I have chosen to build it. So

13:59

Yeah, that’s really interesting. Because you know, I like to mail several times a day. In fact, yesterday, we had a not really a glitch, it’s more like a, I guess an oversight of one of my team members who is responsible for loading the emails. And what we do is, we send to the unopened person. And so it happened that, you know, he loaded the and opened it to be sent like 40 minutes after the original email, which is way too soon. But that kind of didn’t really backfire. In fact, it actually worked better than waiting for like 12 hours before sending the opens because apparently it’s sort of going to nudge people to really open that email faster. So there are tons of different ways to do this. And you can definitely mail more often, in my opinion, like I went from mailing several times a week back way back in the day, and also being really afraid of the attrition. Because if there’s no new subscribers coming in, and you’re late every time you mail you got like minus five or minus 10. You know, you’re like, Ah, it’s so hard to get the five now, but it’s so easy to lose them. So. So that was really difficult until I started generating like a couple of 100 new subscribers every day, at which point minus five or minus 10 doesn’t really seem that like these days, I can, I can have days where I’ve got minus 50 subscribers on a single day. And you know, look at that, and still kind of sucks, right? Because to me, every subscriber in my list equals a dollar amount just like you. But you know, there’s going to be another 50 coming in in the next couple of hours. So I’m going to be okay with that. Like, I have to put things into perspective, because the more the list grows, the more there will be unsubscribes, etc. Like this past year, we had an influx of leads from a different source, like so it’s almost like, I don’t want to see doubled, but maybe grew our Legion by about 120, maybe 150%. So all of a sudden minds subscribe rates are also bigger because the overall list size is bigger. And at first, I was panicking. It’s like, oh, what’s going on? What are we? Why are people like, why is everyone leaving the ship, like it’s drowning, but eventually realized, well wait a second, we’re like literally getting almost double the average daily subscriber amount. So it’s only natural for the unsub rate to remain the same in relation to the total list size, but the numbers will appear like they’re greater. But I also wanted to touch on the idea of burning it out, you said that you burned down the torch to lists before. And I can totally relate to that. I’ve been there myself quite a few times, especially at the very start when I’m on a mailing list and there’s money coming in. It’s like, oh, I should do that more often. And I’m really hitting that list hard with multiple offers. And it was a shitshow. But these days, after many, many years of trial and error, what I’ve discovered is kind of developed my own way of mailing the list, often without burning that list out. And it comes down to not so much wanting the subscribers to read every email, I think, for me, that’s never the goal. Like I don’t expect every person on my list to read every email. In fact, I kind of assume that they won’t, that they’ll miss five emails out of seven. And that’s okay. Because, you know, my goal is to get them to respond. So, in a way, I noticed that whenever I get emails from people, I can go for like a month or a week without opening any of them. But then there’s going to be one email that really gets my attention. That kind of pulls me into whatever’s whatever that person has going on. Like whether they got a product launch or something. I also noticed that my wife, she kind of does the same thing. So my wife and I have a habit of eating together. But we also have this habit of watching something while we eat. Rather than having a conversation. I’m not sure exactly whether it’s the healthiest habit. But it is a habit that was formed many, many years ago when we used to live with my parents together. And we used to eat and work out of the same bedroom where I grew up as a teenager. So it was like, we just kind of stayed in that little room. And that everything there and habit that was formed was, you know, I didn’t have a TV in that room. So we would watch movies or TV shows on the computer. So we wouldn’t be sitting on my bed and putting something on the computer. And even watch right. So now we do the same thing that habit never went away, we have a big screen TV, but for some reason we, you know, sit at the dining table, put a laptop on it, then just watch something on a laptop, especially if it’s Russian TV, which we don’t get in Canada, so we have to stream it from a laptop or device. And here’s what I’m getting with this, as we usually use her laptop for it. And she’s got the email app on her Mac set up. And so every time there’s an email coming in, there’s like, and you can see the emails coming in. And as we eat, I can see her response to different types of emails. And, you know, a lot of times it could be something related to work or it could be something related to a clothing store that she subscribes to or whatever. Recently she actually subscribed to a couple of gurus as well. Who do sell courses about females like relationships from a female standpoint and, and parents and a lot of stuff like that. So I get to see her response to all the emails and oftentimes I see an email coming in from something like Shane, which is like an e-commerce brand selling clothes for women. And it’ll be like 50% available blah and she’ll almost be like rolling her eyes and be like, and clicking away. But not unsubscribing. Right? Because three days later, there’s gonna be something else, then she’s gonna click on it, she’s gonna pick something up, and there’s gonna be a shame bag, you know, on the porch in a few days. So, yes, it can be annoying if you email too often. But people vote with their wallets. And even if they only open one email a week, but that one email is actually something they really want, you still end up making a lot more money. And another thing that I always think about is, it’s not just about them clicking or opening an email, it’s also about staying on top of their awareness. Like, in other words, like if my brand or presence in their inbox stands for something. I want to be there a lot. It’s like, you know, back in the 90s, when we used to watch TV, right, we used to see the tight commercials or the snickers commercials, Coca Cola commercials, you know, Coca Cola did a great job of associating itself with Christmas. You know, now every time I see a Coca Cola truck, I feel like Christmas, because I remember the Christmas commercial that they had with Santa Clauses and the big trucks and the lights. So for me, in a way, yes, I know that if like, just like back in the 90s, when an ad would come up, and I’d be rolling my eyes like a commercial. But it does leave an imprint. And eventually, when they’re ready to move forward in a certain direction. I want them thinking about me, I want them to be looking forward to an email from me, or just kind of knowing, you know, to know that tomorrow, I’m going to be there. Even if they don’t read today, to me, I’m going to be there. Now. Here’s another phenomenon that I noticed from my list, which once I share that, I promise I’ll shut up and let you shine. So another thing I’ve noticed is that, so I track all my links, every email, there’s a link, and I track my links and watch my stats. That’s one of the few things I still have to do. Having a big team now, I do have to watch my numbers. Because the way you manage a big business, you manage the business by numbers, you own a big econ business. So you know, like you look at the numbers. And if the numbers aren’t right, you start taking action. So I look at my clicks, and I look at my click count and the click through rate and everything. And what I’m noticing is that I’ll have like, like almost like a backlog of clicks coming in through my emails a week or two weeks after they got clicked. And once I’ve noticed that, and I’ve kind of started thinking, oh, wait a second. So there’s a lot of traffic I’m losing because the offer I promoted last week is over, that offer is gone. And now all these people are clicking. So I started, you know, redirecting my links to like an expired page or something, a page that says, Look, this offer is gone. But if you’re interested in something like that, here, check this one out. And that will take them to a certain page. But my point being is that, yes, they may not open that email when I send it. But there’s a good chance that two weeks later, they’ll go and check it out for some reason, like people, like saved, save the emails into a special folder or something. And then when they get the time or the energy for it, or maybe it’s a form of entertainment or something, they’ll go and they’ll like, look back at all the other emails to check out what I’ve been mailing about.

23:35

Yeah, 100% I’ve seen the same thing. And to be honest, there are a couple people where I do exactly that. I have their emails going into a folder, because I can’t necessarily keep up with them daily. But, you know, if I’m in a waiting room somewhere, I might open that up and just binge on 20 or 30 emails all at once. Because it is a form of entertainment. I like their content. And sometimes there’s offers mixed in that I’ve missed. So, no, I think that I don’t disagree with anything that you said. I think that these are different approaches. I think that what I’m doing makes sense for a small list. But ultimately, I want a bigger list, right? I mean, I want, I want , I would like to have a big list bigger than I have. But I want to maintain the quality of leads on it. And I want to maintain the level of influence that I have over that. And really that’s what I’m going to be focusing on this next year is scaling what I’m currently doing. So I think you’re right as that scales I will be emailing more often because the attrition won’t be a concern. And I have enough data now to know the kinds of things that get people on my list excited. So I’m going to give them more of that. But I spent some time trying to figure out what that really was . I, you know, I threw out some different topics and some different offers, and some clearly did better than others. And, you know, now I know it works. And so I’m just going to turn up the dial on that.

25:22

Yeah, well, you know, I want to have a bigger list, said every list owner ever. But absolutely, like I’ve seen, I’ve seen firsthand the impact of quality versus quantity one time, when there was a new email software that was coming around the blog, and they were like, promising. And they signed up a client, who actually was one of my original mentors who coached me into solo ads and a few other email related things. You know, he used to be really like a serial entrepreneur in the offline world, before the internet came along and started changing everything, used to own a bunch of video stores that sold adult content with these, you know, booths and everything. He used to own a cruise ship, or at least somehow affiliated with one like he used to do a lot. And you know, I’m talking to a guy living in dementia and driving them was an Irati, like he made it, but he’s got this knack for starting businesses and making them profitable quickly. And I’ve always looked up to him. And anytime I needed advice, they came to him. So anyway, he when he discovered list building, or online marketing in general, the first thing he did he befriended Michael St. They’re still best friends and business partners, he actually went on to partner with Michael started groove, which is a company that’s rivaling, you know, click funnels and Infusion soft, and all the all the rest. And back then he was, like, really aggressively building his list. And he built a 340,000 person list in just a span of, like, 13 months or 16 months or something like that, like the guy was just insane. And he did it at a profit, too. Which is, in my opinion, the most impressive thing you can do. It’s, it’s just crazy. So this guy, this, this email, sender, company, this email software company lands, this guy as a client, and he starts mailing. And this guy was mailing every day, sometimes twice a day, even back then we’re talking 10 years ago. And the first thing that happens, he crashes the entire company, all of a sudden, my account doesn’t work, I contact my friends, like do this, you know, are you able to mails like, No, I can’t even log in is the site up and cetera. And then the owner comes out later that day, the owner sends out like an email or post somewhere and says, Look, we have this big client, and he mailed everything. So we need to upgrade our data servers and infrastructure to be able to handle that sort of volume. You know, and they actually, you know, did I think, ask him to go clean his list or something or take out, you know, the dead weight or to, to make it more mailable within their infrastructure? So? So yeah, definitely, there are challenges with having a bigger list. And that doesn’t always mean you’re going to make more money either. Because oftentimes, you’ll see my name on the leaderboard for an affiliate promotion. And I’ll be beating people with, you know, much larger lists. However, there are exceptions. There are exceptions. Sometimes you do come across listeners with like 300 500,000 people who can really pull insane numbers, like my buddy Mark Ling, for example, he’s got a list of like, over 300,000 people, and he can make, you know, 300 sales over $4,000 program just by mailing the list and, you know, doing like webinars or something pretty insane. But to the same extent, by the way, it doesn’t mean that he’s bulletproof against a bad promotion, because I’ve seen them mail for something and walk away with like, eight sales from the same list size. So right, yes, there is the way you need to communicate to the list. Yes, there are a few things we can say about the list quality. But I think another thing we need to mention, and I think this is something you’re getting really, really right with your communication with your business is that whatever offer you’re promoting, whether it’s your own or other people’s offers, it has to be a good match to the list. In other words, you really need to know or at least test what your list is willing and wanting to buy. As far as price this point as far as a general angle of the promotion as far as a solution they’re looking for. Because, you know, like, I had a friend hit me up a couple days ago. And he’s like, Hey, I’m launching this social media app. And I would really love your support, because he knows I’m a big mailer. And I said, look, bro, I’d love to support you. And please don’t take it the wrong way. But I know that my list just doesn’t buy social media related stuff. It just doesn’t buy. So there’s really nothing like I’m not even going to try because I’ve mailed social media stuff. So off, like often enough, let’s put it this way to know that anytime I do, I vim I just don’t produce anything at all. And I really do not want to kind of quote unquote, waste a promo on something that I don’t think will convert. Right. So knowing no thy list, right? Yes, yes, definitely a commandment you should keep in mind.

31:00

Absolutely. I agree. 100%. Yeah, it’s because you want to come at this from the perspective of, I mean, whenever we send people an offer, like we want, we want to connect, whatever that product or services with people who it’s who is going to help, we’re going to benefit from it. And just like, in wanting to deliver that value to the right person at the right time, like we get value back by getting paid for it. And what you just described, I mean, that’s kind of how I, how I torched that list years ago, I was just trying to extract money from it. And I put together a, basically a string of offers that were just completely unrelated to why those people were on the list in the first place. It was completely incongruent. Like, you know, not just my unsubscribes spiked, but my spam complaints spiked, because it was, I mean, it was borderline spam, like it was, it was completely irrelevant. To those people, I was just trying to make a buck. And that taught me like, you can’t, yes, you can make a lot of money with an email list. But you have to do it the right way. You have to understand who these people are, that they have found you and what they’re looking for. And then give them that. I mean, it’s that simple, but just like, a really bad I don’t know. And so, what you just described is kind of what social media offers. I think this is where people can get in trouble when they’re focusing on list growth and list size, and not, and not necessarily really thinking through matching up the offer to the audience. When we start putting the wrong offer in front of people, then that’s like, that’s when they disappear, that’s when they unsubscribe, they quit opening, because we’re no longer relevant to them. So like that, I think, is the thing that, especially new list builders, like you’ve got to watch out for. So I mean, go ahead and buy traffic if you want to build quickly, but you have to quickly dial in that communication piece in understanding who they are, like, what they’re looking for on your list, and then delivering that to them consistently.

33:23

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I think it’s almost a sin at this point. There’s like, they used to say that, when you’re writing copy that to be boring as a sin, which I think it is, but I think that requires a little bit of, of clarity, because what I used to think as far as being boring means is when your copy is not like is when your word choice is not exciting, you know, like when you’re writing poorly on the you know, in a low level or something like were you not choosing the right words or you don’t have to source next to you but when I’m coming to realize is that being boring? First and foremost means you’re not relevant. Yes. Being boring means you’re talking about things they don’t care about. Like if I get an email about the next NFL showdown. If you know, there’s an email in my inbox about the next Super Bowl. Right? I really couldn’t care less, it’s just not my thing. I don’t I don’t watch the NFL and I don’t connect with the game. The closest they come to the NFL is watching movies about the NFL, because movies are exciting. They always make them so emotional. And there’s a hero and there’s the final touchdown pass and the guy catches it with the pinky like that. And so that’s very fun. And same with baseball. By the way, You still love watching major leagues or major leagues or something like that. It was a movie with Wesley Snipes and Tom. Tom, it wasn’t the substitute teacher Tom didn’t remember. Never mind, never. So it’s just a fun baseball movie. Very cool. But I will not go to a baseball game, not my thing. Like, I don’t drink beer, and I have a much better way to spend three hours of my life than that. However, if I get an email about the next Premier League, you know, matchup or if there’s going to be a Champions League final, or there’s a jersey on sale, or something, you get my attention. And that literally gets me excited. Like if I’m, like browsing my inbox, feeling bored or procrastinating about something you shouldn’t be doing right now, or just had a fight with my wife and I need an escape, then I’ll look at that. And I’ll be like, oh, exciting, I’ll be clicking into that and checking it out, even if only for a brief second. And that’s what you know, not being boring is all about, it’s been super relevant to, to the desires and the dream outcomes and the frustrations that your customer has. So I think that’s a really, really important key point to extracting maximum money from your list is you do need to, to have some empathy with your audience, you need to have at least some understanding of what they’re looking for, and why. And, you know, definitely worth spending some time trying to understand that by either running different tests or talking to people, you know, I spent a lot of time without even knowing that I was, that was a good thing, and I spent a lot of time talking to people on the phone. My dream customers, you know, people who you would consider to be perfect fit for what I always promoted. And, you know, I got so many conversations that I’ve had, they pretty much went the same, right? So before they could voice their frustrations, concerns and dreams, I could tell them what their frustrations, concerns and dreams were, I could echo their thoughts better than they could do that. And I think it had a tremendous influence on my income as a result, because I can just communicate that which is, again, something that every great list owner who mails the list and was able to make money consistently, usually does really well.

37:22

100%. And I just want to I just want to reiterate that if people are willing to really have conversations with their customers, like on the phone like you did, if you let them tell you what you know what their pain points are, why you know why current solutions haven’t worked for them what their dream outcome is, they’re basically giving you the perfect copy to convert them, right. And so when you have a bunch of that data, you can just reflect that back in your copy as you structure your offers. And it’s always perfect, because it’s what’s already in their head, like you said, you’re mirroring, you’re mirroring what’s in their head before they even can before they can even acknowledge that it’s there. So that is super smart marketing. And if anybody is not doing that, they should.

38:26

Yeah, absolutely, man. Cool. So thank you for spending some time with me here and helping our audience understand what it really takes to make money with your list. If somebody wants to check you out, get on your list and see how you do it. Where can they go?

38:45

They can just go to emailmagic.com and sign up for my free email list. I have no front end offer. They’re all in the back end.

38:54

Damn it. No front end. Do you plan on having one anytime soon?

39:00

Yeah, I’m gonna probably change things up a little bit this coming year, build a more conventional structure, turn on traffic and have a front end. But right now, people can come into my world and just see what I’m about without any expectation.

39:16

So refreshing, like you can actually sign up to a list and not get pitched. At least for the first seven days. That’s amazing. Again, it goes against everything that I’ve been teaching the last decade or so. But it just proves that there’s more than one way to skin the cat. So guys, if you want to check out Greg go to emailmagic.com. Great domain, by the way, got on his list. See how he’s communicating with you and what he’s doing. I think he’s doing a great job. Also, if I’m correct. Greg also offers list management services. So if you already have a list, I would assume at least five to 10,000 people. You can also talk to Greg about him actually mailing your list for you. So you can have better delivery rates. Or sales, and have a lot more free time because, you know, managing your lists can be a time consuming thing depending on how you do it. So, again, the link is emailmagic.com. The name is Greg Johnson. So Greg, thank you so much for being here today. I had a tremendous time interviewing you. Thanks for dispensing the wisdom. And until next time, we’ll chat. Have a good one. Thank you for listening to the list building lifestyle, get access to the previous episodes transcript of today’s show, as well as other exclusive content at listbuildinglifestyleshow.com. Also, remember to claim your free copy of my bestselling book at www.igorsbook.com. It explains how I made millions with list building starting from scratch. Plus, I’ll give you $3,000 worth of free bonuses, including my best landing page templates, email, swipe files and traffic blueprints. Go to www.igorsbook.com. Now to claim your free package.