How To Get Rich With Cold Email – Legally With Ajay Goel

Welcome back to the Lisbon lifestyle. I’m your host, Igor Kheifets and today I’m hosting one of the foremost authorities on cold email marketing. The creator and founder of G mess. Mr. Ajay Goel. Well, Ajay Welcome to the list building lifestyle. Thanks, Igor. Great to have you because I am not big on cold email. In fact, my entire experience with email marketing, I’ve been, you know, pretty efficient at email marketing in the last 15 years has been either completely Blackhat I’m talking, you know, going way beyond cold email or anything even remotely related to it or buying lists. I mean, I’m talking like hacking stuff, or 100%, white hat, opt in email marketing with, you know, obtaining users permission. So first,

00:52

I want you to share with our listeners, what the hell is GMs? Because I’m pretty sure a lot of them never heard of it. But I have been using this for the last couple of months, and I’m loving it. So what does Gmass do?

01:05

G mass is an email sending platform that is integrated into Gmail. So using your Gmail account, and using the Gmail interface, you can launch an email campaign. And we have a lot of cold emails using it for cold email campaigns. But then we also have some users using it for completely noncommercial purposes, not to make money. So it could be a teacher emailing students, or a club leader emailing club members. But by and large, the majority of our users are using it to generate sales.

01:38

Yeah, so in other words, this is a really cool piece of software that you put on to your Gmail account, to turn your Gmail into what we would call a CRM, or an auto responder allowing you to contact a vast majority of people like a vast number of people by sending them one email rather than sending 1000 copies of the same email to a bunch of people and without having to like send an email to like a bunch of people and have them in the CC line. So

02:09

you’re creating a conversation, like what I used to do before I found out about GMs, is I used to basically email myself and then in the BCC line, the invisible line, I would put everybody else. So they could only reply back to me. And it’s surprising how many people still do that, because they don’t know there’s a better way? Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. So GMS is pretty incredible. We started using it for hosting joint venture mixers, actually a couple of months ago, because all the people on that list are, you know, aren’t people who opted in necessarily, but they are people in my network, who I want to invite to an event. So you know, I formed this group and created this society, if you will, a tiny little Society of maybe about 200 people. And so I was like really struggling with getting in touch with them and following up with everybody to and this is another thing that Gmail does really well, it actually it has automated parameters that you can set up where if somebody doesn’t open your email address and click your email, click the link in your email, you can actually automatically have emails going out to them saying, hey, just a reminder, you know, check this out. Oh, have you checked this out? And I like to include one that says, hey, do you hate money? What’s wrong with you? You know, stuff like that. So, this is how we met. I started using GMs, then I reached out to you because I really liked the software. And now, now we’re talking, I really want to explore these two directions. So I come from the world of opt in email marketing, I generate an email address on to my email list, I obtain users permission to send them information. Now, you and I might be wrong about this. So correct me if I am. But you come from the cold email space where you’re able to send out emails to people who didn’t necessarily not only didn’t opt in, but you know, they don’t even know you exist, until you email them with something. So tell us about that. How is it different from cold email versus opt in email setup?

04:19

The core difference is permission with an opt-in email list, you’re obtaining permission from the person to email them, they’ve filled out a form, they’ve submitted their email addressed to you because they want to be emailed by you. And perhaps you even sent them a confirmation link which is called confirmed opt in or double opt in so that someone can sign someone else up to your email list. That’s what is traditionally known as opt in email marketing. Cold email marketing, on the other hand, is permission list. So the idea is that you are finding people that you think would be good prospects for you and emailing them and you have no preexisting really

05:00

ship with them. They have not signed up to be on your list. Some people, I won’t say who some people like to call that spam.

05:10

And technically, technically called email is spam. And that’s kind of a, my cold email colleagues would

05:19

you yell at me for saying that because cold emails do not like to be called spammers, they do not like to be associated with that word. But technically speaking, if you look at the definitions of spam, which have been around for, for 20 years, holding email is spam. However, it’s spam that actually works and generates sales.

05:39

And it’s illegal in the US, I believe, right? From what I know, you can email somebody or bulk email a bunch of people until they say, Hey, stop mailing me. And then you say, Okay, I took you off my list, and then you can never email them again. Correct. So

05:58

It’s a very interesting distinction, because Spam was legalized in the United States via the Can Spam Act back in 2003, I believe. And the gist of the law was that you can email anyone you want, as long as you do a couple of things, provide an unsubscribe mechanism, put your postal address at the bottom of the email, the content of the email can’t be deceptive. A lot of cold email errs are doing this. And they’re not placing an unsubscribe link. And they’re not putting their postal address on the email, because they don’t want it to look like a marketing email. They want it to look like one to one communication. And so now we enter a gray area, because the cold email might claim, well, I personalized the entire first paragraph of my email, according to the recipient, and according to what company the recipient works for, and the other demographic information I pulled about them from LinkedIn or other data sources. So this isn’t bulk email at all, every email is so personalized. But the anti-spammers would argue you’re still sending it in bulk. And just because you have a couple of merge variables in there, doesn’t mean you’re sending one on one email. So which, which one is right?

07:15

You know, they’re probably both wrong. already. So it was right. So can we or can we not

07:24

get a few email addresses of people who want to reach out to and send a bulk email using something like GMs? If we can, what’s the right way to do it? Well, I’ll say this, I have, in my entire experience running two different email platforms, I have never heard of a customer of ours being prosecuted because of their email practices. The bar for this is so interesting in the US, like, I can’t, I can’t sue you, because you spam me.

07:58

The law does not allow for that. What the law allows is that I can report you in the US to the FTC, the Federal Trade Commission, and then the Federal Trade Commission has to decide, okay, you’re a big enough fish worth pursuing. You violated the kinsman law enough that I’m going to come after you. So just the process around getting in trouble is a pretty high bar. Yeah, well, I’ve always been a proponent of a technique that I think is a very healthy technique to have. And that is,

08:31

If somebody says unsubscribe me from your list, just unsubscribe, it’s the same sort of mindset that if you’re selling something, and somebody’s really unhappy, you know, just refund them. You know, like that’s, that’s how people get in trouble. They really hold on to either a subscriber or a sale. And they, they sort of have this scarcity mindset to say, Oh, I worked so hard to generate this subscriber to generate this sale, that there won’t be another sale to follow. And therefore, I should really fight for this one, because I’ve worked so hard to get it. You know, I think in general, you know, if you want to send out whether opt in emails or not opt in emails, somebody just doesn’t want to be on your list, just get rid of yeah, there’s a billion people on this planet, I’m pretty sure at least some of them will fit your perfect customer description, in one way or another. And you can go and find more, more email subscribers that you know, who’d be willing to be on your list. So okay, cool. Now, yeah, go ahead.

09:31

I was gonna say, cold email does fall more towards that Blackhat spectrum that Igor you referred to earlier. And

09:42

the thought that has been in the back of my mind, as we’ve been talking is, you know, you’ve talked about how you’ve only done stuff on the optin email side, but then you also referred to using all these Blackhat techniques, so those don’t really mix so I’m wondering like, what you’re really up to you

10:00

Igor. So here’s what I’m up to. In the last 15 years, I’ve tried almost every possible way to email people. But I have, I have never really done a pure cold approach, like I’ve never really gone and bought lists, or otherwise scraped lists, and then email them cold. That’s never been the idea. However, here’s what I have done, I have done something really stupid. I built a list using opt in email marketing. And then I went ahead and I mailed that list pretending to be

10:34

somewhat famous entity in my market,

10:40

which basically was fraud. Okay, it was many, many moons ago, it was over 10 years ago. But it worked. And it worked like a charm, I actually had this list, it was maybe 10, maybe 15,000 people. But you know, I was using software, which doesn’t exist anymore. At the time, the software allowed you to change your from name and from email every single time you loaded it every time. Okay? So when I see this every time I load an email, it prompts me, you know, which name and email you’d like to use, and I can change it every time. It’s only natural that for a curious mind, like mine, I had this crazy idea. And I went ahead, and I emailed that list, as, like I said, is a very famous entity in my market. And the response was off the charts, I literally went on to start making like 50 sales per day of really cheap products like nine to $20 $9 to $20 products. But every day, every time I would send out an email, it would be great. And so I went and I started improving on that. I went ahead and I started watching the emails by this other entity. And I really started modeling them, I’m talking down to the keyboard stroke right down to the character down to the dot down to every disclaimer they had and everything else, I made it look exactly like they were emailing. And man, I enjoyed that for a bit, I’d say for maybe three months or so until I got caught by that software. And they shut me down. Now what’s interesting, is about three years after that, three years after that somebody reported me to the entity. I don’t know why it took them so long. But you know, the owner of the entity messaged me and he said, Hey, I just heard because he knew me. He knew of me because I became kind of big in the marketplace. So he’s like, I just heard someone tell me that you were mailing pretending to be that you’re that you’re mailing and you’re pretending to be us and you’re selling stuff as if you’re us. If that’s true, we’re going to sue you. So they were talking about it like it was happening. Now. I got so scared. I immediately got back to them like no, no, it was many years ago, I was stupid. And I didn’t know what I was doing. I was just trying to make a quick buck. It was dumb. I was an idiot. Just please don’t sue me. It’s, you know, I was like apologizing profusely, almost like crawling on my knees and begging them not to not to sue me. But yeah, so that’s like an example of some of the Blackhat stuff that I’ve done. But this is really bad. Like, I got it. This is the thing you should never do really. Yeah. And you know, with So 10 years ago that what you did was

13:45

easier and more possible now with technical authentication things in place. Mechanisms in place that would be really hard to pull off and still make it to the inbox. Yeah, I guess I guess it’s because of people like me that they put those mechanisms in place.

14:04

Entire organizations have been formed and minds have come together to think up protocols because of guys like you. Yes, exactly. Yes. But since then, I’ve moved to the, to the good side to the, to the,

14:20

you know, to the legal side of it, and been doing really well. But you know, this world of cold emails is really fascinating to me, because as a business owner, I get hit up by all kinds of service providers all the time. And while it happens on social media accounts that I own, that’s normal, because anyone can reach anyone on social media. But when it happens through email, it’s almost as if it’s almost as if it feels like they got my email address from somebody I know. It’s like when they email me and they just start talking to me like, like, we’re friends, like we’ve been in touch. But I’m struggling to connect who

15:00

Is this person, you know, it takes me like a good minute or so to realize this is cold email, and somebody’s trying to like, contact me and sell me their services. But every now and again, they’ll succeed, like, just the other day someone reached out to us regarding our content strategy. And they made it personal. By the way, there’s like, hey, Igor, I’ve been following you on social media, I see you’re posting lots of YouTube shorts lately. I really think you know, I can help you with your content strategy, let’s talk. And that’s the email, right? There’s no notification about them getting my email, you know, through LinkedIn, there’s, there’s no notice of this being a bulk email, which I’m pretty sure it’s not yes, it’s just it’s just, you know, like, any random person could email any other random person. And it’s perfectly legal. And, and, and, you know, the copywriting in that email that you just talked about, is very intentional. So I would venture to guess that the sender wasn’t only emailing you, but you felt like they were and that’s, that’s what’s important. And Gone are the days where people will start off with a formal introduction. Like, if we go back to the time before email existed when, when it was called postal mailing. The first paragraph of a letter on paper would say, hi, Igor, my name is AJ. And I would like to introduce myself to you, I am the CEO of GE mass, and I found you through whatever source and I would like to introduce you to my company. Now, if you see a paragraph like that in the email, you’re gonna delete that right away because you know, it’s a solicitation. So the tone and language of just how we sell and pitch ourselves through written communication has changed, because people are getting bombarded with solicitations. And so you have to make your copywriting seem as non-solicitous as possible. Yeah, almost like a friend email, do you? Right? It’s the old Frank. Frank Kern has been teaching this for years and years. It’s like, make your email sound like, like a friend is telling you about a movie they just saw. And they’re telling you to go see it. You know, that’s how your marketing emails need to sound like, and he’s totally right. Like, the best email I’ve ever written. For marketing purposes. Were the ones that would annoy the hell out of my English teacher?

17:25

Yes, so I am a grammar snob. And so when I get emails where the subject line is yo, Ajay, or people refer to me as bruh. What is this? What is this? But that’s what gets open replies these days. No, it truly does. And the more informal you make it, like the other day, I sent out this email with GMs, to about 160 people or so who attended our GV mixers, and the subject line was low caps. So all each letter is just low caps, and says shakey selfie video, when I’m not even trying to unpack a benefit or anything like that. And the email was me saying, hey, just structure this video and link it into a video I literally just shot on my phone, asking them for a favor. And you know, it just as soon as I sent it, like, within minutes, I started receiving replies from people addressing the video, like, and they neither one of them actually knew that it was like a bulk send. Just because there’s, there’s no way like there’s no reason for them to question it. Because it’s, it sounds so personal. And yeah, I’m not mentioning any names or anything just saying, hey, but the same with your friend when the friend emails you. They don’t really start off with, you know, greetings of the day, Igor, right, they say hey, exactly, or something like that.

18:57

Yeah, and there’s no sincere or formal closing anymore as, as we were taught to use, or as I was taught to use in formal letter writing in school growing up. Yeah, in fact, you know, with my best friends who email me, you know, it can almost start with some kind of defensive language. You know, I have a buddy in Ireland.

19:20

Yeah, it’s like a shithead you cock or something like that, you know, you insult me and I’d be like, Yeah, okay. This is definitely a legit email from a friend. I’ve been told that it’s legit.

19:33

Email strategy, use curse words. Yes. Yes, exactly. Here live on egos podcast. No, that’s crazy. That’s because cold email is truly useful, right? But when is it useful? In other words, if I’ve got an E commerce product of some kind, like a back scratcher, do I use cold email? Or do a scholarly Nah, probably not.

20:00

Um, that’s, that’s going to be tough to be successful, according to what Cody Miller is used mostly for, is to book a meeting. So people that are selling, not a $20 back scratcher, but a $2,000 a month SEO service or a $2,000 a month rev maintenance service, or a $2,000 a month,

20:25

they would add 2000, let’s say $200, a month Hvac maintenance package for your house.

20:33

Those are the people that will be successful with cold email because you can hone in on your target customer

20:41

and email them and follow up with them until they say oh, yeah, okay, let’s talk. And then as soon as they say, Okay, let’s talk, the email sequence stops, you immediately move to a person to person meeting where you try to close the deal. Yeah, that makes sense. So I also heard there’s services out there. I don’t know if you heard this, but someone wants told me that they’ve got a video agency, and they get leads from another agency, a lead gen agency that specializes in cold email, and what they do they charge my friend $8 for any warm lead that they generate, meaning they go out there, and they’ll send out 1000s of emails saying something like, Hey, are you interested in video editing services or video services for your Facebook profile? Whatnot, and only the ones who respond with a yes, they get transferred to my friend? Yeah. And for each one of those, my friend will pay $8 per lead. Now, what do you think about it? Is that legit? Does that exist? Yeah, I mean, that’s. So it’s a lead gen agency. It sounds like that’s what your friend is paying. He’s paying a lead gen agency. And that’s what, specifically it’s a cold email lead gen agency. And that number is tons of these agencies flourishing and popping up everywhere. And that’s, that’s becoming the, the new

22:08

sales team at an organization. It’s called Email lead gen.

22:13

Now, there’s $8, a good price. It depends. I mean, it depends on so much. I mean, let me commit over $800 into perspective. Okay, I’ll put this into perspective for you. So I’ve got a high ticket webinar. It’s a $997 offer. And if I go and advertise that webinar, on a platform like Facebook, or YouTube or any other paid platform, I can expect to pay anywhere from about 10 to $25 per opt-in to the webinar, which is basically a name and email and a phone number. So if my buddy is selling a 2k per month or 1000 per month service, and is paying about $8 per lead. I think he’s getting a good deal. Yeah, sure. Sure. Yeah. And then it comes down to representatives of the leads who are actually signing up and paying for the webinar.

23:08

Yeah, so on an evergreen webinar, you can probably expect a good one or 2% on a good webinar. So out of those who opted in and actually ended up watching the webinar, which most of them will be, if it’s an evergreen one, you’re looking at about one or 2%. So every maybe

23:26

a sale for every 100, maybe 120 people. Okay, so that means you’re spending about $800, maybe $400, if it’s to 2%. So $400 to $800, or $997. Webinar, and that so that the math works out there. Yeah, well, but obviously, there should be an upsell process. So it’s a longer term game. But what I’m saying is if we just look at the front end, lead generation costs, the amount of effort and money that that I have to invest to go and generate leads for through paid media, okay, versus you just sitting there on your ass, and having leads being served to you who just responded saying, hey, I’m interested in that product or service? I think that’s really nice. I think that’s a good setup. If you’ve got a service based business or maybe even a SASS platform.

24:21

Yes, yes. And

24:25

and what a lot of these lead gen agencies are doing is they’re figuring out how to massively scale their cold email outreach. So

24:35

It’s interesting what’s going on in the industry because for a long time, a cold email. His goal was to scale to go from sending a few 100 emails a month to sorry, per day to maybe a few 1000 emails a day, just to get as many replies and book as many meetings and demos as possible.

24:54

The industry is changing a little bit because now the two big companies that are in charge of email

25:00

Google and Microsoft are kind of seeing that pattern proliferate. And they’re starting to clamp down on it a little bit. So the future of being able to scale like that, for sending none opt in email is a little unknown right now.

25:18

Interesting. So what would be your prediction for the next 10 years?

25:25

Oh, that is that? That’s too difficult for me to predict 10 years out? I mean, I’m not, I’m not, I’m not going to call you up on it in 10 years. Okay. You said, you said, No, I’m not going to do that. But it’s interesting to see your perspective about where you see things starting, because it’s interesting. Interested, you’re experienced in this game.

25:43

For the last 10 years, there’s been this echoing theme amongst the email industry veterans about whether email is dying, and whether email is even dead. And

26:01

The reason it’s a legitimate conversation to have is because the younger generation is using email less and less, when email first started flourishing in the business workplace in the early 2000s. Those people for the most part are still around. So email is still a heavily used channel. But will it be 10 years from now and maybe my generation starts to, you know, phase out of tech or retire or,

26:32

You know, when people first started using the web, email was the only option for digital communication. Now there’s, you know, I can list 20, other channels, you know, Twitter, DMS, LinkedIn, DMS, WhatsApp, iMessage, regular text, you know, the list goes on and on. So,

26:49

and one of the cold emails is interesting, because it works really well. But the better it works, and the more people send,

27:01

the more sick and email people are going to be on the receiving end. So there’s this balancing act that has to be accomplished. Because if, let’s say, every company in the world starts sending cold emails, everybody suddenly believes in the power of cold email to sell whatever they’re selling. If everybody starts sending cold emails, then nobody will be successful at cold email anymore.

27:26

Okay, I can appreciate that. Let me offer a contrary view. So just like you, I’m in the business of email, and I rely heavily on, you know, selling my products and services on email. And the trend I’m seeing is a little bit different. First off, there’s two kinds of points of view about this one is, you’re right, when you say that, some people use WhatsApp, some people use this, some people use that. And it’s becoming very tribal. So we all have our preferred method of communication that we absolutely adore. And we move everything to it. Like today, I was having a call with a potential JV partner. And my first thing was, hey, do you use WhatsApp because I use WhatsApp a lot. And I would love to be chatting to you through WhatsApp. And of course, we moved the conversation to WhatsApp. And that’s where it’s going to be happening. Now. Moving forward. However, I also see that many of these channels, they intertwine and overlay on top of each other because while they do talk, for instance, to some IGV partners over WhatsApp, I also have to send them emails containing different information, they also have to use email to go register an affiliate account to promote my stuff. And vice versa. When we book a call with them, I’ll give them a link to book a call with me through Calendly. And then they’ll get an email or a calendar confirmation or both when they do it, and they’ll go and check their email to get the Zoom link to have a cold with me. So yes, it is very fragmented. So there’s a million different things now. But email still plays a very important part in that process, in a way where it all links back to it. Because when you buy something on Amazon, you get an email. When I got approved for my Canadian citizenship a few days ago, and I had my ceremony, I got an email about it. When I was helping, I’m actually helping somebody get a job as well here in Canada. And same thing to meet with the immigration officer that was reviewing her candidacy for my business. There was email communication going back and forth. It wasn’t email and a bit of phone but it definitely wasn’t Facebook or Tik Tok or Instagram. So anything that’s governmental tends to be email specific. An email is still considered to be a quote without a contract. Because if I expressed a guarantee, or stated I’m gonna deliver something over email, a person can hold me accountable. Right on

30:00

That is because I wrote it in my email, which is the same as if I wrote it on a piece of paper and handed that piece of paper to them. So what I’m seeing as that email is basically, the epicenter or of the infrastructure of the online communication infrastructure, because everything else links to it. Anything important is still done through email. Anything that’s,

30:26

That’s, that business or business see is still done through email as well. And the other perspective, too, you mentioned that the younger people don’t use it as much. And you’re right, they don’t, until there’s a point in their life when they stop being young people and they become like members of the real world of the adult community working the working force.

30:51

Yeah, the workforce, they have to get a lease on a house, they have to talk to their bank, they need to get some paperwork done, apply for a passport, and they need to get their driver’s license renewed. So they go to the government website and have to enter their email. So all of a sudden, at some point in their life, they start using email way more often. And

31:14

the way I actually saw a very similar evolution, in my early days, when I started out in this business, and I was a complete shithead.

31:26

I was like doing stupid things. Like I just gave an example a few minutes ago, I tried to do some things, I wasn’t approaching our business as a business, I was looking for schemes, and I was trying to hack my way into income. And it was just that I was a terrible, terrible, terrible customer for people to like. If you were selling a coaching program at the time, you wouldn’t want me as your customer. I would be the one paying the least, complaining the most, and trying to steal your stuff. But then over time, I grew to understand certain concepts, certain life experiences molded me and now I’m a completely different customer, I buy a $97 course. And I’ll go for the $400 an hour consulting session with the creator of the course. And I’ll feel good about it, which is exactly what I’ve done last week about a mental illness, like a mental model sort of coaching, where that helps you clear childhood trauma, which is something I’ve been really focusing on this year. So, you know, I do feel that it’s an evolution that nothing really stays as is, it’s not like it’s set in stone. So even if the younger generation doesn’t use email yet, if society is built in a way that forces those to have an email address to do anything, they’ll use it. My daughter, for example, she’s 10 years old, right? But I got her into an online school that teaches coding. Yep. And I’m really proud to say that she has over 200 hours of coding study of projects she actually built already at age 10. I’m super, super proud of that. Now, what’s interesting is that in order to communicate with your teacher, she has to use email. And her teacher sent resume links to the screen sharing calls through email. Yeah, and I’m actually, you know, I’m getting a copy of each email as well. And what’s interesting is that my daughter really wants to get on Tik Tok. Right, she really likes Tik Tok like any 10 year old, and she needs email to get on it. So first, we use my email. Then, for some reason she got banned from Tik Tok. And I’m not sure how that happened. But then we have to create a new email address and register her again. So even if we’re talking about social media, still, people using social media need email addresses to register their social media accounts. Yes, so I agree with most of what you said, email is still the backbone of all these services. So even if you look at other messaging services, like LinkedIn direct messages, if you haven’t logged into LinkedIn to read your messages in a while, what happens? You get an email from them saying, hey,

34:00

check your message. I find it frustrating because I’m like, why doesn’t LinkedIn just put the message in the email, so I don’t have to click the link in the email to go to work.

34:10

Same thing with Facebook. And I think Twitter does the same thing as well. So everyone uses email as the backbone underneath these other messaging platforms. Now.

34:23

Today, you’re right to sign up for Tik Tok, or to sign up for anything else, you still need an email address. But where are you in 10 years? Well, if they just ask for your cell phone number, and they send you a text to confirm your account instead of an email, I mean, some services offer that as an option right now. I just I think

34:44

I never like to rest on what I’ve already been successful with. So I think that if I start to assume that email is going to be around forever, that’s probably the beginning of my downfall.

35:00

Oh shit, then I’m like midway through in that

35:03

heading, I’m heading to the bottom of that barrel. I’ve been teaching email for so many years, I believe my message now.

35:11

I drink my own Kool Aid. Or maybe I’m just trying to scare you. I don’t know.

35:19

Well, I don’t know. But I’m a strong believer

35:23

into the idea that email is the backbone. And it simply comes down to my experience over the last 1012 years, where every now and again, somebody comes out and it’s like emails that email doesn’t work. Let’s do chatbots then six months later, somebody else comes in is like, emails dead? Let’s do tick tock Oh, emails that live on Instagram if you know, and it’s like, it’s a recurring theme. All the while, I continue to rely on email, and most people in my vicinity, you know, people who make 678 figures, mail like crazy, you take away yeah, they would you know, what, you shut down their ad account? They wouldn’t be as upset as if they were to lose their email lists. Sure. Sure. Yes.

36:12

Yeah, I agree. And, you know, I can tell you from experience at any time I have something to announce or sell,

36:21

emailing my list, which is, which is pretty big. My list is one and a half million people now. But emailing my list versus

36:31

a posting on any of my social media channels, even buying paid ads on any of the social media channels is never as effective as sending an email. And the analytics aren’t as good either.

36:45

With email, you get, like instant feedback on what’s working, you can tweak your campaign mid sending, you could run a B tests.

36:55

So you’re right, you’re right. It is effective. I know there’s a

36:59

From what we’ve been talking about, I was reminded of this quote from Jeff Bezos. I don’t know when he said it, but I think it was in the last year. I know which one you’re talking about. He said, he admitted, he said, Someday Amazon is gonna go out of business. And it’s our job to prolong that for as long as possible. And that’s, that’s how I feel about email. Yeah, that’s interesting. You know, I, I remember he has another quote, which I don’t even remember what I found it because I couldn’t find it since. And I really hope I don’t make this up. Then my memories were distorted, but he said something in regards to people always talking about what’s changing, and trying to let go make money with it or capitalize on it. But people rarely talk about what’s not changing.

37:47

Right. And the one thing I know, that hasn’t changed or hasn’t changed in the last 10 years, as far as I’m concerned, it’s the impact of email. On my business. Sure. Right. Yeah. It talked about sales too, like, getting 1000 clicks from Facebook is not the same as getting 1000 clicks from my email list. It’s not the same. No, those are not the same clicks. No. Yeah. Well, well. First up your adulation?

38:14

Go ahead, no, go ahead. I just think it’s interesting but dynamic between you and me, because we both have a lot to lose if email goes by the wayside. And here I am telling you that email might die and you’re like, No, it’s gonna be around forever. But if it dies, like I’m out of a job, too, so yeah, well, look, I really hope it doesn’t. And usually I’m very paranoid. But this is the one thing that I’m really, really confident about. And if I’m wrong in 10 years, the email is dead, then I’ll have a lot of reinventing to do. You know, a lot. A lot. I mean, I’m talking like Michael Jordan, on your show.

38:53

Yes, absolutely. I’ll have to name it. The chatbot lifestyle or whatever is gonna be the AI lifestyle, or the microchip my head lifestyle if Elon Musk succeeds at that, because I’m, by the way, really, really hoping he does.

39:09

Cool. Well, so we’re out of time. We’ve got to wrap up. So first off, congrats on your success. Congrats on having a list of 1.5 billion people. That’s insane.

39:20

Yeah, thanks. Thanks. I mean, that’s it’s

39:23

This is all people who have signed up for GMs. No way. This is incredible. Do you break Gmail when you mail them?

39:33

We do something kind of interesting when we email our own list.

39:39

But no, I’m able to email my entire list without breaking Gmail or running into any kind of limit issues. That is insane. That is absolutely insane. I have to pick your brain about that. But we don’t have time for that. So tell us real quick again. Who did you create GMs for and how can we go and get bids?

40:02

I created it for myself. But what happened is that cold emails jumped on the train and started using it to generate sales. The website is gmass.co. And from there, it’s about 10 seconds to install the product. And you’re off and running, you can create your first campaign in under a minute.

40:23

There you go, guys. So if you feel you can use something like Gmail to make your Gmail account more efficient, turn it into more of a CRM. So you can follow up with people more efficiently. So you can do some cold emails or just email your organization in a way that’s not intrusive and bulk, some and tiresome, then go ahead and check it out at GMs. That’s gmass.co. And it’s free to start. But if you want to use some of the advanced features, as well as some SMTP setup, you will have to upgrade which is exactly what I’ve done. And I’ve been really happy since so it’s at gmass.co. Go check it out. AJ, thank you so much for spending this time with me and entertaining my weird ideas. Thanks for educating us about cold email. That was really cool. And yeah, I really hope that email doesn’t die.