Get With The Program

Client reached out asking to help him sell his info product.

It’s an ebook that exposes lying guru bastards and their unruly ways.

He’s written a long form sales letter with all the bells and whistles to sell it.

The price point?

A whopping $2!

Maaaan…. that’s a hard sell.

You can’t make a living exposing scams.


Because you’re not selling anything new OR valuable for that matter.

Tune in for today’s episode to find out what to focus your marketing on in order to get people moving, clicking and buying!


This program is brought to you by the

Hi, my name is Igor Kheifets and this is the List Building Lifestyle, the only podcast
which delivers cutting edge conversion strategies from the online trenches straight to
your earbuds. Download the transcript of today’s episode and all future episodes at I also invite you to grab a free copy of “The Wealthy
List Builder’s Survival Guide” at and now
once again it’s time to claim your List Building Lifestyle.

Jonathan: Welcome back List Builders to another fun-filled edition of List
Building Lifestyle with the man, the myth, the legend, Mr. Igor Kheifets.

Igor: Howdy.

Jonathan: Howdy. Howdy? Israel man, howdy?

Igor: [laughter] Howdy partner.

Jonathan: [laughter]

Igor: So Jonathan, look there is too much bad behavior out there. It’s fun for me
to kind of discuss it and show people what not to do but at some point people have
to get a grip and just get with the program. Like this one guy, emailed us today
and so check this out; imagine the scene. So the guy comes in complaining that he
can’t afford to buy paid traffic and that whatever paid traffic he can afford to
buy usually doesn’t convert so we say, “Okay, we don’t know why it didn’t convert,
let us first check out your offer.” “Okay, cool.” He sends us the link. It turns
out he wrote a long form sales letter to sell a $2.99 report in which he proudly
exposes the gurus and their dirty tricks they used to trick you into buying thing
that you don’t need and he is just amazed how come nobody is not buying that. Now
I’m not sure how obvious it is to our audience but it has to be obvious to you and
me all the things he is doing wrong. First off, you can’t go selling a $2.99
report expecting to make any money even if you sell a hundred copies that’s only
$299 for 100 customers. That’s nothing. It’s absolutely nothing. You can’t build a
business if you don’t have a profit margin. So that’s one mistake. But a more fun
mental mistake that he is making is that he is trying to sell something people
don’t actually want. Nobody want – everybody complains about the gurus being the
assholes of the universe that they sell us information we don’t need and that we
are not supposed to listen to them because they only want to get rich off our
problems and stuff like that. I even heard this amazing term from a VIP client who
basically coined the entire self-help industry as shelf-help. Basically you buy a
bunch of information and then you just store it on your shelf. In some way, she is
absolutely correct for sure. If you don’t use it then it’s definitely some
shelf-help right there. But with this guy, let’s be honest who is willing to buy a
report that exposes the way we are being scammed? Really? I don’t know of a person
who actually will spend money to buy something like that simply because it doesn’t
help. It simply doesn’t help. That information actually should be free because
selling such information in and of itself contradicts the whole concept.

Jonathan: [Laughter] So when you said $2.97 is it 297 or $2.97?

Igor: That’s $2.99.

Jonathan: Oh 2.99, dude! Really? He can’t sell that 2.99 product that’s amazing.

Igor: That is ridiculous. Now of course, the physical element and the marketing
element of how he tries to sell something that people don’t want and that’s one
thing but can you imagine how rotten his mindset if he’s willing to spend two
months writing a dirt cheap report that focuses on exposing the dirty gurus and
he’s basically – I mean his money mindset is just in the toilet. There is no way
he can make money even if he raises the price, even if he rewrites the copy, or
changes the USP of his product. I noticed, Jonathan, this may sound kind of weird
but I noticed that some people you can give them the best traffic, you can give
them the best offers and the best sales funnels, they never make money. I wish I
could follow them around for 24 hours with a yellow pad and write down everything
they are doing but I don’t have to because all it takes is one conversation to
find out what their money mindset is. I am a great believer in the fact that there
is something beyond the three or four dimensions we live in right now where energy
that we are not necessarily able to see or feel at times, it moves around and you
can literally think money away. Now I mean I realize that I’m crossing the line
here because I’m not a metaphysical guy, I don’t believe that if you just sit in
the corner quietly and think about making a million dollars you will make a
million dollars. I am more of a practical guy.

Jonathan: What?

Igor: Yes, it’s not going to work, Jonathan.

Jonathan: I don’t like you anymore.

Igor: Get over it, man.

Jonathan: [laughter]

Igor: So I’m more of a practical guy. I believe proper application of principals
on a daily basis and creating habits. We have had a bunch of episodes where we
spoke about the kind of habits you want to have so you may want to scan and go
back and check out some previous episodes. But you know you can really effect your
financial thermostat which is the term I first heard from Harv T Aker in The
Secrets of the Millionaire Mind. There is such a thing. I know people who can work
hard. They are smart people but they will never cross a certain threshold but at
the same time, they will never go below a certain threshold. I’m sure you have
friends like that as well.

Jonathan: Yeah, they are suck, right? At that level forever.

Igor: Yeah, absolutely so I will give an example. I met this nice lady who is my
friend’s brother’s fiancée and she is doing well but the thing is she has been
doing well for the last 10 years. I asked her like income did it increase in the
last 10 years. She is like, “Nope.” Did it go down in the last 10 years? She says,
“Well only if you consider inflation then yeah it went down with the inflation but
the actually amount of money didn’t really go down.” And I said, “Okay so the
people you hang out with are you the person that makes the most money in that
group?” She is like, “Yes.” I’m like, “Well, no wonder. If you change the group
and you change the group to a group where you make the least money of all, you
will see your income go up simply because your mindset and the way you see the
world and perceive everything around you will change tremendously.” So this is the
concept of the Mastermind which is why I love going to marketing events and I love
getting coaching although it’s super expensive, it helps you raise that level. So
back to this guy who tries to sell a $2.99 report exposing the dirty gurus and
their dirty tricks, you have to switch the focus to something can actually help
you make money. You have to switch the focus from feeling scammed and cheated by
the gurus and take personal responsibility for the amount of money you’re earning
and say okay I deserve what I make right now, how can I turn myself into the kind
of person that makes twice as much as I’m making right now. That is a way more
productive way of seeing the world than keep thinking about all the gurus that
scammed you on eBay and other different services.

Jonathan: That’s actually what we just – I went to Strategic Coach from the time
we are recording this about a week ago and that was our whole focus was the
largest check and looking what your largest checks in your business and then
looking to make that your lowest check and setting your barometer higher so that
you can focus on that the next year. It was a very interesting exercise and I
started rethinking everything when they put me into that situation.

Igor: Yeah, every ceiling is a new floor so to speak but that’s not the kind of
thinking that most people have and that’s not the kind of thinking and you weren’t
even aware of that, right before someone told you about it.

Jonathan: Yeah.

Igor: So it goes back to, I remember Dennis told me something, he read some
psychological book, and he is big on psychology and social studies. He came in and
he’s got this wow look on his face. It’s that face you get when you have a brain

Jonathan: [laughter]

Igor: When you just discover something that is truly amazing.

Jonathan: Doinnnggg!

Igor: Yeah. He says, “Oh my God. I just realized something.” I’m like, “What?”
He’s like, “You know this person we hang out with.” I’m like, “Yeah.” “You know
why he’s not funny?” I’m like, “Well, because he is not funny. He just doesn’t
have a good sense of humor.” And he’s like, “No, no, no, no, he doesn’t even
realize that he’s not funny and that is exactly the reason he’s not funny.”

Jonathan: [laughter]

Igor: So this like loop, this Catch 22, so this guy unfortunately can’t even see
what he is doing wrong until someone specifies this to him and I made the mistake
of being that person. I stepped into that conversation with that person. I said,
“Look dude, you won’t convert, you won’t sell a copy with this attitude, this USP
makes no fricking sense. I don't know anyone who would actually pay $3 to discover
how they are being scammed because first off.”

Jonathan: They are going to think it’s a scam.

Igor: Yeah, exactly. They might think it’s a scam in the first place. You’re
focusing on your own people; you need people who are willing to pay money to get a
result or to solve a problem. You can’t be focusing on the people that all they do
is complain about how life is unfair because these people get no where and they
never invest in themselves.

Jonathan: Yeah.

Igor: Unfortunately, I must have been too straight. I chose the direct approach
which I usually choose with clients which I now realize is not always the right
thing to do, this guy came back with a really mean response, and no further
comments were issued to him. But maybe if he is still listening, if you’re still
listening, if you’re still out there, please stop trying to sell that bullshit
report and sell something useful to the people who are actually willing to buy

Jonathan: It’s interesting how different positioning could change that because he
is selling it as a scam product and it might make more sense to sell it as a
persuasion secret product which then people want to know the persuasion secrets of
their favorite gurus just that little change could make a big difference.

Igor: Oh yeah and this is big. Framing is big. You actually mentioned the USP just
mentioned how to basically identify whether or not you’re being tricked and how to
basically turn this around and make it into a weapon that you can use to influence
to people that you want to influence whether for good or for bad, hopefully for
good. That’s the angle with which Robert Cialdini wrote The Pre-Suasion, one of my
favorite books of persuasion of all times. He wrote it basically to expose how we
are being tricked on a daily basis by influencers and how to become immune to this
influence and how to influence others if we didn’t fit. That’s why I picked it up.
I mean it made a lot of sense because I had the end goal of becoming a better
influencer myself, of getting understanding. My goal was not to expose, to become
someone who knows he is being tricked because I know I’m being tricked. Like if I
were to feel like I’m being tricked by the gurus then I don’t need you to tell me
for me to know. I already have that. That is a big thing and framing really works.
I will give an example. I took Ericka to her dance recital the other day. It’s
about an hour usually. In which case, me and my wife would just go out for coffee
or something like that but this time we stayed. So we waited. So 30 minutes into
they got a little break to drink some water, to go pee because these are 4 year
old girls, I mean they have to pee every 20 minutes. So they come out, they run
out. They go pee. My daughter comes back in, she says, “Daddy, I’m done.” I’m
like, “What do you mean you’re done?” She says, “I danced and I’m done. Let’s go
and get Bamba.” Bamba is her favorite treat which we usually go get after the
dance. I say, “What do you mean you’re done? You got 30 more minutes to go.” She
says, “No, I’m done.” I’m like, “Okay, I realize now she doesn’t want to go back
dancing and I say don’t you want to go back and dance with your friends?” She
says, “No, I’m cool, let’s go get Bamba.” So back in the day, I would you the
straight up approach and I would try to convince her and say you have to go
because that’s the right thing to do because we are paying for your dance class.
This time, I used framing. It sort of came in naturally. I didn’t even realize
what I was doing and I said, “Okay, cool so you don’t want to dance anymore.” She
says, “No.” I’m like, “Awesome. Do you want to go back and play with your friends
for 30 minutes?” She says, “Yeah” and she went back in.

Jonathan: Oh God.

Igor: That was easy right? I just framed the dancing as a game so I said go play,
go have fun, don’t dance, just go have fun and she went back in and she danced for
another 30 minutes. That’s all. Framing, it just allows us to control the way
people perceive things and that’s the way they make decisions.

Jonathan: No kidding. I got to learn – I got to learn some of that parent speak
you got over there. [laughter]

Igor: Well, you might have heard I’m starting a parenting podcast.

Jonathan: There you go. That’s going to be HUGE. [laughter]

Igor: [laughter]

Jonathan: I will say that book that you recommended, is it The Whole Brain Baby or

Igor: Brain Rules for the Baby.

Jonathan: Brain Rules for the Baby. Yeah, excellent book and I think just like the
framing lesson that you gave there you can have a bunch of lesson for dealing with
people since we are all thinking at lower level no matter what. So Igor what else
you got for us on this?

Igor: Oh dude come on, I can talk about this thing for hours. Overall, I want this
episode to be this waving flag. Just imagine me standing right now on top of the
hill waving a red flag and just trying to alert you to the dangers of your own
thinking about money and to say that if you’re not making the kind of money you
want to make it’s not because the gurus are tricking you into it, it’s not because
there is bad traffic out there, it’s simply because you are doing something to
make that happen. You are responsible and you deserve exactly what you’re making.
I honestly believe that. I believe the marketplace will reward you with exactly to
a penny, exactly what you are worth and if you’re not making what you believe
you’re worth, look within and see where exactly do you fail to think like a true

Jonathan: So the other thing I want to circle back to before we wrap up is those
people that you surround yourself with, how important is it to be around people
who are at a higher level than you?

Igor: Oh I guess it may be the most important thing you can ever do for yourself
in general and not just for your business. Without realizing there is people who
make way more than me, without realizing that there are people out there who are
way healthier than me, way fitter than me, who are way better parents than me, I
would have never strived to become better because I would not know what’s
possible. Especially most people are normal just like you and me. Because it’s
easy to look at someone like Tony Robbins and say, “Oh my God that man is a beast.
You know he’s got 10 businesses running, he is doing 27 seminars a month, he’s got
this and that. His palms are huge. He meets 80% of all of his goals and yada yada
yada.” But you know someone like Tony Robbins might truly seem like the man of the
mountain but someone like me should be an inspiration to you guys to recognize
that you can be a normal person and achieve everything. If there is someone else
out there who does better than you, you should try to find a way to find out
exactly what they are doing and how they are thinking in order to achieve similar

Jonathan: Now let’s take the flip side of that before we wrap up, how important is
it to get rid of those people like your old high school friends and people who
don’t understand that you’re in business, all of those people that bring you down,
how important is it to get rid of them?

Igor: Well, I guess you could say that unless you do, they will suck you in like a
swamp. It is simply the fact of life. You want to stay away from those whose minds
are sick. It’s not like they are bad people. It’s just that they have stinking
thinking as Jim Rowland used to say. So it’s automatically, you won’t even notice
how they suck you into the same patterns and the same mindsets and you have to
exit that environment. Now if you are sort of in that environment right now and
you can’t escape it then just minimize your communication with those people to a
bare minimum and if you have to keep communicating with them, learn to not take
anything they say seriously. Because the moment you do and you buy into their
predictions of your success, you’re fucked.

Jonathan: [laughter] Drop the mic. There you go another episode of List Building
Lifestyle is in the can. Thank you, Igor. Thank you, List Builders. We’ll be back
with you next time.

Thanks for listening to The List Building Lifestyle Show, make sure to subscribe on iTunes
or Google. Play to never miss an episode because who knows just one conversion tactic
we share on the show might double your list and double your business. Download the
transcript of today’s episode and all future episodes at and
don’t forget to claim your complimentary copy of “The Wealthy List Builder’s Survival
Guide” at . This is Igor Kheifets until next time we talk, have a good one.

This is the

Who Is Igor Kheifets

Igor Kheifets is the 3rd highest-earning super-affiliate in the internet marketing niche.

Igor’s 2-step system has helped him consistently rank as the highest-earning and the highest-converting (measured in commissions earned per click) for industry’s leading vendors including but not limited to Matt Bacak, John Crestani and Anthony Morrison.

Igor boiled down success in affiliate marketing to a set of predictable easy steps anyone can take to generate commissions.


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