Skinny Fat List Building With Michelangelo Lopez

Making big money with tiny lists.

It’s the unicorn of online marketing.

People know how it looks like but they have never seen it done.

This stops today as my man Michelangelo Lopez joins us.

He has done the impossible.

He earned $117,000 in 2015 and $111,000 in 2016 from a list of 2088 people.


He follows an easy step by step process you can replicate today with your own list.

So take notes as Michelangelo reveals the madness behind the methods that turn tiny lists into your personal goldmines.


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Hi, my name is Igor Kheifets and this is the List Building Lifestyle, the only podcast
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once again it’s time to claim your List Building Lifestyle.

Igor: Welcome back to another edition of the List Building Lifestyle with your host, Igor Kheifets. Today I've got the pleasure of hosting Michelangelo Lopez. Michelangelo and I go way back to 2011. He was one of the first few people who actually promoted Igor Solo Ads as a traffic source to their team, and as a result we built a really profitable long-term relationship, probably one of the first few relationships in all of my online career. Now, but this is not why I invited Michelangelo today. You see, Michelangelo has built amazing, just amazing businesses in several different companies and it seems like this guy can almost on demand, whatever he wants to, he can build a six-figure or multi six-figure income joining a brand new company. It's amazing. Whenever he goes he dominates leaderboards. Now, the beautiful part about this and the weird part too is that you don't see him buying million-dollars' worth of advertising, you don't see him prospecting on Twitter, you don't see him do all the usual stuff. Instead, he's sort of behind scenes and doesn't really create much noise anymore and he's still able to profit from lists as little as 2,800 people to the tune of half a million dollars or something. So I decided to see if we can get Michelangelo to spill the beans and that is why we're here. So Michelangelo, thank you so much for being here.

Michelangelo: Hey, Igor. Yeah. Wow. Doesn't time fly? I remember you were single, you didn't have a family, now you're older, family, everything.

Igor: Yeah, my daughter is four.

Michelangelo: Time flies. Your daughter is four? Oh, my God.

Igor: [laughter] Yeah. I think we started either a year or two years before she was born. That was incredible. I remember doing the first webinar. So, yeah.

Michelangelo: So I'm listening to you, and the name of this show is List Building Lifestyle, and I'm like, "Oh, my God! This is right up my... This is what I do." I'm so excited to be here,
Igor. Thank you for inviting me, because I've got so much to share. You said, "Spill the beans.", but there's going to be so much beans people might have a little indigestion.

Igor: [laughter]

Michelangelo: But it's okay, because I got a lot. When we talk about list building, I got it.

Igor: Well, no doubt, man. No doubt. I remember the first time we spoke, you were promoting ClickBank products, and I think you told me, "Hey Igor, check my stats. Are they good?" And I looked at your stats and your EPCs were crazy high. I was like, "What are you doing? What are you doing that you're getting these results?" Because you were like tripling for dribbling the averages that I've seen. And even, while making a few mistakes with your squeeze pages, which we fixed on the first call.

Michelangelo: Yeah, what you fixed, what you helped me.

Igor: But you were nailing it. You were just wow.

Michelangelo: I remember the tips you'd give me and we'd, "Hey, change this. Change that."

Igor: Yeah, that's badass. So, you know what? Let's just stop teasing the listeners. Okay? Let's give them what we came here to give them.

Michelangelo: Alright.

Igor: So first and foremost, you are notorious for building teams that are profitable. They're not necessarily large, they're just super profitable. I've seen you extract so much money per customer from your list that is almost unbelievable if I actually voiced the numbers out loud. So can you tell us what the hell are you doing differently from everybody else that it gets you these results?

Michelangelo: Well, for an example, on one list I had, I think I was sharing this with you one time, the list is a small list of 2,800 and only 88 buyers of that 2,800 and that made me, and it wasn't a big ticket at all. It was in the affiliate programs like an auto-responder program on steroids, but it made me $117,000 in 2015, $111,000 in 2016. That small list, by the way, just saying that list didn't grow because I really didn't grow that list. So from 2015 to 2016, it just grew like by 800. I just said it and forgot it. But still, figured out, 117 at 100 and that's when I was promoting it a bit more. A hundred and eleven, it's crazy on autopilot. And the whole thing is this, 90% of gurus, and I know you know this, have ten times my list size. Ten times, man. They have 90,000, 500,000, whatever. My list size that earned me $989,000 last year, my list size, at the max, it goes from between 45 and 55 thousand. Now, of course, that's not active, we wish we were all active, but here's the key. The key has nothing to do with your list size, and I'm not going to use the old pun "size doesn't matter" or whatever, but it has everything to do with creating hyper-responsive buyers out of the flesh and blood whose emails you collected. And I'm here in the United States and I was taught one thing. The Groupon business model of collecting emails and sending them stuff to buy places the joint. That's it. It's that simple. You can take the little old lady from Pasadena, show her a couple of steps, have her collecting emails, and she can monetize if she uses the right strategy if she keeps in mind that the Groupon is a 2.5-billion-dollar-a-year company, Groupon is, right? And it's incredible. 2.5-billion-dollar-a-year company, they drive traffic in ugliest, puke-green website and all they do is...

Igor: [laughter]

Michelangelo: No, it's the truth. You go to Groupon.

Igor: I know, I've seen it.

Michelangelo: Puke green. Yeah, it's like none of your stuff you know all this little... See, I don't, and I know sometimes you'll disagree with me and I would too, but people spend too much time tweaking and not engaging the flesh and blood whose emails that collected. They spent too much time, "Well, I need to tweak this font on the landing page. I need to tweak the video." Let me share something with you, as far as America. Hey, half of Americans are color blind, the other half has ADD.

Igor: [laughter]

Michelangelo: So I don't have... No, that's the truth. So I don't care about that. What I want to do is figure out how to engage the flesh and blood behind those emails I've collected. And I do that, and I do that probably better than anyone. Frank Kern talks about hyper-responsive buyers. That's what you want. You want people, you want the flesh and blood whose emails you collected to be, number one, anxious to get your email, and you know this for a fact, Igor, or there was a time that probably nobody sent more emails per day than I did.

Igor: You were crazy. You were doing like seven emails per day. People think I spam. They think I'm a spammer, or abusing the list, etc. And I tell them, "Email every day.", but man, you were killing it. You were like six or seven emails per day, and obviously I've been in your list, that's definitely a list to be on, but when you were doing it I could feel my comfort zone expand and it was like, "If Michelangelo can do six a day, maybe I can do two per day." Who know?

Michelangelo: Yeah, but you got to understand this. You got to understand that my list is not exclusive. You're on the list. We're all on each other's lists. We're on each other's lists, so if I'm not in your inbox, Joe the internet marketer's going to be in your inbox. You with me? So I want to make sure I have enough emails in there to push your email to the second or third page of Gmail or whatever.

Igor: [laughter]

Michelangelo: That's the key. Yeah, look, they're either going to buy, die, or unsubscribe from you. That's it. I'm minding my own business online and Joe Lee comes along, and opts in; I didn't put a gun to his head. He subscribed. I'm minding my own business. He subscribed. So it's up to him to either buy, buy, or unsubscribe. That's it. And that's the key. But see, I don't send swipe emails. And this is very important. I probably have less than five follow-up messages. I don't believe in follow-up messages. I believe in getting your butt in front of the computer and writing out a broadcast and sending out broadcast. Those six or seven emails I used to send a day, I guarantee you, five at least are broadcast, me sitting down and writing it. And 90% of my emails lead to my video, because video is king. People connect with flesh and blood. I don't do swipes, it's crazy how many people do swipes and that. I said, no, connect. Look, you're not trying to be stunned by everybody or you'll get nobody. You're just trying to get the people that are like you, "you's" of this world. If you stutter, it's okay. There's enough people to stutter it on your list that will resonate. If you're butt ugly, it's okay, there's enough people that are butt ugly on your list that'll say, "Wow, honey! Come here. This guy is butt ugly as you. Come here."

Igor: [laughter]

Michelangelo: And they resonate. No, that's the truth. You're not trying to be somebody everybody or nobody, you're just trying to find the "you's" in this world. There are enough people similar like you that resonate, that will make you a six-figure, seven-figure income all day long like Chili's happy hour. Too many people focus on list building as far as building huge lists. Let me tell you a story real quick. I don't know how much my time I have, I'm a preacher so I can go on for hours, but it's called "the hot dog analogy". "The hot dog vendor analogy". Hear me out, this is powerful, Igor. So pretend you're at a baseball stadium. You're watching the Yankees and you are a hot dog vendor. And there are 40,000 people in stadium being engaged, entertained by the game. So you're going up and down, "Hot dogs! Hot dogs! Hot dogs!". And then, there's a line of people out the stadium waiting to come in, buying a ticket to come in. Well, hear me out. The people outside the stadium in line to get their ticket to come in are equivalent to the people landing on your landing page. The people in the stadium engaged, entertained by the game are equivalent to the people on your list. So I ask you Igor, who's going to buy the hot dogs first? The people out in line waiting to get in? They don't even see you. Or the people sitting and standing, engaged, entertained.

Igor: Obviously

Michelangelo: The people that stand. So why marketers spend 90% of their time tweaking their landing pages, the people outside, when they should be tweaking their emails, their presentation to the people sitting and being engaged in your list? Boy, that was good preaching, wasn't it?

Igor: That's a damn good question there. And I love the passion you put into it.

Michelangelo: What's that? Everyone tweaks, tweaks.

Igor: I love the passion you put into it.

Michelangelo: It's the truth. Spend more time on your list and figure out, "Okay, what do they want?" Ask the question engaging them. Don't spend as much time on your landing people go oh we didn't convert them and it doesn't matter. I don't get caught up in numbers and that; I get them on the list. When they're on my list man, it's time. It's time. And the key to list building is list segmentation. Here's average Joe marketer, 90% of marketers. They'll find the good offer, will say they go to ClickBank, and they find a weight-loss product, or maybe they're already in a network marketing that is committed to a weight-loss product. So what they do? They find a copy, use it as a swipe, whatever they might not even write their own copy. But they've blast the whole list. And they wonder, "Damn. I didn't get no conversions." And they're wondering, "Why didn't I get on conversions?" So they blame it on what? They blame it on the product, on the swipe, whatever.

Igor: They're blaming me, man. They blame the traffic source.

Michelangelo: Yeah, you know that.

Igor: I know that.

Michelangelo: You know that. You know that, yeah. But guess what? They're wrong. You see, that person, Joe marketer, who just blasted his list a weight loss product; he's naive. He doesn't know if his list is a skinny list or a fat list. His list could be made up of 90% people from Ethiopia. They need to gain weight, and he's wondering why they're not converted, because they don't need to lose weight. So here's the deal. Here's what you do. And auto-platforms, like Infusionsoft, Entreport, AW. I mean, AWeber was a third party tool, AW Pro Tools does this perfect. It's called the smart link. So here's what you do. Instead of blasting the weight loss product, the offer, what you do is, that this is so powerful, Igor. What you do is you send an email with three smart links. First you creative a list. Three lists. Two more of those. You create a weight loss list, which I call a "fat list", you create a "skinny list". "Fat list" and "skinny list" that's what you create. So you'll email them.

Igor: I love the names, man. I just love them.

Michelangelo: I have a fat list. You've probably seen on my Facebook, I have a fat list. Some of your listeners on my fat list, and I'm going to take you off. No. Yeah, I know. No, I won't tell you, and you don't tell your subscribers who's on the fat list. I'm not going to tell you that. You little jerk. But here's what you do. Now you send emails saying, "Hey, be honest. How much weight do you need to lose?" And you say, "Hey, be honest. How much weight do you need to lose right?"

Igor: So you literally ask them how much weight they want to lose. So do you sort in the question.

Michelangelo: Yeah. Now, here it is. Here is the key, though. Here is the key. In that little survey, here's the key. Okay, hyperlink send them on, I need to lose between 20 and 40 pounds, Michelangelo." And the second link, "I need to lose 50 to 60 pounds." The third link, "I need to lose any weight." "I need to gain weight." Well, with a smart link, based on the link that they clicked, it opts them in silently to your fat list or skinny list, Igor. So now, they don't even know. It's called the ghost opt-in. When they click on "I need to lose 20 to 40 pounds." you're now building a fat list. When they click on the "I don't need to lose any weight." You're building a skinny list. You'll send them weight gain products or proteins or _____whatever. The fat list, that's who you send to. That's the art of list segmentation. There are a lot of people in bus-ops that have different levels, all-in level, $25 level. Well, everyone that sends an email "Hey get all in" well you don't know if you have a broke list or a list of people from Jerry Springer Show. Instead, say, "Hey, how much money do you have to invest in a business opportunity?" They have between 25 and $100, Michelangelo. That's one, that's a hyperlink. "Hey, I have 500 to 1000." "Hey, I have 5000." Well, based on the link that they click it opts them into what? Your broke list. Your rich list. Your Jerry Springer list.

Igor: [laughter] What is a Jerry Springer list, Michelangelo.

Michelangelo: Jerry Springer list is about as low as you can get on my list. Okay?

Igor: [laughter]

Michelangelo: That's about as low as you can get I think I got the midget-Jerry Springer list. Midgets of Jerry Springer, that's the lowest. It's just like, you're going to send them more of your forms $7 stuff. You know what I mean, because you want to monetize. I do know how to grab every penny from my list now because now you're talking directly. Look you're not sending them a video about investing $5000 to get all in when they only said they had 500. You with me? But you see internet marketers are lazy, they don't take the time to do the video that speaks directly to the person's needs. They will just do a generic video and blast. Instead I post.

Igor: You do their own video, man.

Michelangelo: Exactly, instead I take the extra time, so when they click on the link watch what happens, hey I have $500, they click on the link, it goes to the to a video, "Hey great you said you have $500 to invest in a business opportunity, perfect." You see I'm talking directly to them based on their answer. "Hey you said you need to lose 20-40 pounds, excellent I think I have an answer for you." "Hey you said, you don't need to lose any weight, great, these are great supplements and stuff." You with me? You're talking directly to them. It's more personal. That's how you get the most out of every subscriber. You're talking directly to them. I have a pretty list and a butt-ugly list. Hey on a scale of 1 to 10, are you pretty or not? Do you consider yourself pretty? Or do you use skin care products? And if they say- if I put in there, "No, there is no hope for me." I put them on my butt-ugly list. Some of y'all listeners are on my butt-ugly list. It's okay because I'm going to send you skincare products and all that stuff. You know what I mean? If you're on the pretty list, I'm going to send you to a website. I just joke around but real quick. When they say, "No, I don't have ." You always give a possibility for a negative answer. So you'll say, you need one that says, "No, I'm broke there is no hope for me." Well, when they click on that you send them to a Jerry Springer list without them knowing and you send them to [laughter]

Igor: [Laughter]

Michelangelo: I do that all the time, you got to have fun with it. Yeah, I send them to

Igor: Does anyone complain, did anyone ever say.

Michelangelo: What are they going to complain and I'm minding my own business online, you're the one that came across me subscribing. Get out of my house. I'm minding my own business.

Igor: Nice. You're bad ass.

Michelangelo: But that's the key Igor, list segmentation, smart links, smart list segmentation and then at the end of six months you have a huge fat list, you have a huge thin list, you have a huge butt-ugly list, you have a broke list, you have an entrepreneur list which they have the money, that's the key. That's the key.

Igor: So basically what you're doing is matching the message to the market.

Michelangelo: You got to speak directly to people as if, I don't use no stupid trick tactics that get them to open the email. PayPal deposit $350 in your account. You know what I'm talking about, Igor.

Igor: Yeah.

Michelangelo: Listen, you're not treating your subscribers as real friends or even people, you're not. Look imagine this; you got to treat them as if you're their neighbor. Are you going to go to your neighbor's house and knock on the door (knocks), "Joe, Joe, I got $400 here, man, open up."

Igor: [laughter]

Michelangelo: "Hey what? You got $400?". "No, I was just getting you to open the door." You understand, no, do you understand the logic? People don't take the time to think like that. You got to treat your list like real people that they are. You don't trick them to open the door. Your neighbor is going to slap you silly.

Igor: You know Michelangelo the one thing that always stood out for me when I was studying you and I still do by the way, now I told you but I still do watch what you're doing. The one thing that always stood is that unlike most marketers you treat this marketplace, you treat in general you treat people as they are. You don't treat people as they should be. You don't treat people as you wish them to be, you just accept it that people are what they are and you play the game. This is just brilliant.

Michelangelo: Well I meant that's how you would hope that offline, people want you to treat them like they are, yeah, I mean anyone can succeed on line if they take the discipline and work more on themselves than they do on their job. It works, man. Let me share something real quick. So I bought this course called "Email Alchemy". It cost me like 5K. The guy's name is Daniel Levis, I think.

Igor: Yeah, we had him on the show, Daniel Levis.

Michelangelo: That's $5000, I bought the lifetime membership that's the best $5000 I ever spent. Totally a paradigm shift because you know, us as internet marketers what do we do? Once sentence, link, one sentence, link, one sentence, link as if "oh my God, I missed that link, I got to go." They are too lazy to go up so you have a link to go down, you know what I mean? You got 10 links, 5 sentences. Daniel says, "Man, Email Alchemy says no, man." Because I used to say this, "It's about collecting clicks. It's about collecting clicks." Right? You want to get the clicks, you want to get the clicks, right? Daniel says, "No, it's about using the email to position yourself to create frame for the inevitable sell." He only has one link in his email. They are long story and entertaining, engaging emails and by the time the reader gets to the bottom of the email and at the end of the email which is long, they have one link, they click on it, they are looking for the yellow cart button. Are you with me? They are so excited they just click to get the yellow cart button. Internet marketers have it reversed, they just want to get the click to get to the sales page and the sales page to the converting. It doesn't work that way. This will dramatically increase your conversion. It's just what happens. It's just what happens. Your clicks will go down but your conversion will go up because the people who do follow through read to the end of the email, long email, entertaining, engaging, informative, when they click on the link they are prepared to position, they have been pre-framed to buy. They have been educated. That's powerful. Oh wow, you had him on your show, he's incredible. He's incredible. It takes it to another level, email marketing. That's the key to use the email to pre-frame, to pre-sell, to position them to be ready to buy. Does that make sense?

Igor: Yeah, absolutely. Are you kidding me, of course. We speak a lot about infotainment on the show and the one thing that this kind of reminds me is that often I will get a question from a listeners or subscriber or customer saying Igor my open rates are real low or people open my emails but nobody ever clicks or they don't click enough. Neither of these metrics is ever a measure of success, right?

Michelangelo: Daniel said you can't cash clicks at the bank.

Igor: Yeah, yeah.

Michelangelo: In fact, he tells you the open rate goes down, the clicks go down but the conversions go up.

Igor: Yeah, exactly. Overall I think the email industry experienced a drop in clicks and opens but I mean the money is still being made through the email. That hasn't change ever since we met, you know back in the day, I used to mail. I still mail. I will be mailing 10 years from now unless Obama taxes it but even if or if Trump taxes it. I'm so used to Obama. [laughter] So Michelangelo what are you up to now? I haven't seen you do much work in the bus op space anymore so what are you up to?

Michelangelo: Yeah, let say real quick about the clicks and that. If you want to good screen shot, sure get the clicks. It just make for a pretty screen shot but it's better to get the conversion which makes for a prettier screen shot. So after 10 years, almost a decade of internet marketing and doing online digital bus op products, I had my roads to Damascus experience in my own way, saw the light and you know I turned 51 December 30th and a lot of times not all of the them but a lot these digital product, info product link to bus ops, they tend to have a 90 days, 6 months if you're lucky, 12 months shelf life and then people move on to the next rodeo, right? I'm not going to and I mean I've been blessed by it. I made a lot of money and I've worked enough hours but at 51 I don't have time to start all over, Igor, every night, 6 months or 12 months, you know? I'm getting old. I've never seen a wheelchair fit in the back of a Lamborghini.

Igor: [Laughter]

Michelangelo: No, I'm trying to look good in a Speedo on a beach now not when I'm 80 years old that's gross. I said you know what let me use my talents, everything I learned on the internet to build a network market. So I'm in network marketing. I chose a company and I'm running with it. There are a lot of good network marketing companies out there. I'm blessed. It's a learning experience. I used to say erroneously, "You don't got time for no learning curve." That's true. You don't got time for the learning curve but there is a learning curve. No way around it, Igor, you had a learning curve; you went through in all your years. I had a learning curve. But the key is to put that learning curve, condense that learning curve to a shelf where you can reach up and grab the book you need to go through that learning curve faster. It's when you have to search and look for and wait for it to drop. That's the learning curve and it lengthens. You with me? But you can go to the learning curve that you need to go to if you just find a right source that everything you need to know and it's not a lot that you need people to know, it's half dozen things to succeed in list building and conversion on one shelf and you just pull it. So yeah, I'm bringing my talents and all of everything I learned in the past decade to network marketing and I'm excited because there is nothing and this is the truth, I don't care if you're recruiting offline or online, I don't care if you're in Amway, Mary Kay or whatever, it's easier to click the mouse to a bigger house.

Igor: What does that mean?

Michelangelo: That means it's easy to recruit online with list building than it is to go and call Aunt Betty. Aunt Betty doesn't want to hear you. Most people pitched Aunt Betty ten times, Igor. You know? Click the mouse to a bigger house. It's easier to click your mouse to a bigger house. It's easier to recruit online especially when you use list building as a means to establish real relationship and not just to monetize. That's the key. When you put in your mind these are the real people, flesh and blood you know you collected and they have real hopes and dreams and they have broken hearts and chances are and see there is no such thing as a ëmaybe', there is no such thing as a ënewbie'. And on your list, whether they bought a product or clicked on a product, there is no such thing as a ënewbie'. Most people are in something or have been beat up by something or their sponsor went into the witness protection program. So here's who wins at list building especially when you're in a bus op and you're trying to recruit. Here's who wins; it's not who sends out an email, "I got them mother of all compensation plan, like you never seen anything like this." I had a guy call, "Michelangelo, you never seen anything like this compensation plan, nothing like it." I say, "How old are you, kid?" "19" "I was wiping my ass with that compensation plan 20 years ago." Excuse me.

Igor: [laughter]

Michelangelo: I've toned down from dropping the F-bomb but okay. But so the business opportunity is not the mother of all business opportunities, it happens to be the vehicle I chose to monetize my talents. That's it. There are dozens of good ones out there. Here is the key. The person that emails saying, "Hey, no matter what you're currently promoting, I can help you." And you genuinely help them, you win because chances are they have been beat up, remember their sponsor went into witness protection program. Sooner or later they are going to say, you know what Rick has been sending some damn good content, let me see what Rick is doing. "Hey Rick, what are you doing by the way?" That's who wins, the person who communicates, "Hey no matter what you're in, I can help you."

Igor: That is bad ass.

Michelangelo: I'm going crazy, Igor. I'm going to go to the top. This is going to be the number one podcast right here. Daniel Levis got nothing on me.

Igor: Oh dude, you're definitely going to be the top podcast for when it publishes for sure. Are you kidding me? I wish I don't get a call from Daniel saying, "Hey why did you interview Michelangelo?" Well, he upped your course. So oh that's cool.

Michelangelo: So let me share one quick clue, I don't know how much time there is but Solo Ads and that. I build my list on Solo Ads. You know that and maybe one other person that I did use sparingly but mostly you. This is what the listeners to get and you know this. It's hard to educate this. When someone buys a Solo Ad and you didn't pay me to say this. When someone buys a Solo Ad, they naively have the thought in their mind that okay they buy 1000 clicks, okay I'm going to buy 1000 clicks, you know I'm going to get 440 opt in or whatever. Oh may 400 I'm going to make a killing. There is going to be so many people joining, buying- wait guess what? That's the wrong intention to buy a Solo Ad. You don't buy and listen to but it's going to hard preaching here and people are like "What?" You don't buy Solo Ad to get conversions. You buy Solo Ad to get people in that stadium I was talking about so that you can engage, entertain, and bond with them. If you get a one hit wonder meaning you buy a Solo Ad and someone buys instantly from you or joins you, that's called a one hit wonder. You'll never be able to budget or live a lifestyle based one hit wonders. Better is those 40%, 30%, 25% opt in rate to get subscribers now you have to make sure that you convert them, this is your only purpose in list building. This is no other purpose, Igor. You convert them into hyper-responsive buyers. That's that when you're monetizing even from a small list. You're not buying Solo Ads to get conversions, you're buying Solo Ads to fill in the stadium so then you convert them to hyper-responsive buyers. And it takes time like anything offline that means takes you communicating with them, emails from different directions and angles to get them to be hyper-responsive buyers. This is what I've always said. Try this. Try this guys that have a list. Try this. I always say this if your list ain't missing you, you're missing your list. Let me say that again. If your list ain't missing you, you're missing your list. What do I mean by that? If you've been emailing two, three times a day and can't and you got to email at least three times a day, right? And if you're emailing two, three times a day and let's say for a month do this for a month and you stop emailing. Boom, stop! If you're not getting emails, "Hey Michelangelo, you okay?" "Hey buddy, we haven't received an email from you, did you unsubscribe me?" That means they are missing their list. See if your list ain't missing you, you're missing your list. Is that powerful? When I stop emailing, I get hit on Facebook, "Hey are you okay?" "Hey how's your blood pressure?" "How's your diabetes?" "Are you okay, I didn't get an email?" "Hey what happened man, how do I subscribe again? I unsubscribed by accident." Man, this is powerful preaching.

Igor: Dude, no one ever said that. I mean definitely the first one I ever heard actually say something like that and this is profound. I mean I myself hit you about a week ago saying, "Hey dude, I don't see you on this leader board and that leader board. I know you've been with the company. What's going on?" It's the same thing.

Michelangelo: What did I do though? What did I do within five seconds? I ______ the leader board. [laughter] I own the leader boards, bitch. [laughter]

Igor: [laughter] Incredible, man. Incredible. Michelangelo...

Michelangelo: But do you understand if your list ain't missing you, you're missing your list.

Igor: I understand that. That is absolutely correct. You know this is a really and it's a different way of approaching list building or what most people take it as because most people think that every time they email their list, they are sort of like a pest. Like they are sort of annoying the people on the list but you take it from a different approach that they come to me, they come to my house.

Michelangelo: Yeah, you're minding your own business on the worldwide web and they come to you.

Igor: That's exactly that, man. That's exactly that. Look, we are almost out of time; I just wanted to ask you one more question. Obviously after such a cool episode I mean you've been extremely entertaining, you've been extremely informative, you've just opened our eyes to a bunch of new concepts; what if any of our listeners want to find out more about you, where can they go look for more information?

Michelangelo: Well, Igor, the easiest place where they can and it's my training platform for my team however, I'm going to share this with you. Picasso said this, "Good artists copy, great artists feel." It's the truth. If you want to succeed on this, you become a good damn stealer of people's copy or copycat of people's work. I say that in a loose way but I'm not talking about stealing and plagiarizing their emails and all that but just steal what they are doing, what they are and you become a good copier. Listen, I'm 51 years old, Igor, I don't got time to reinvent the wheel. Not when Igor's already paved the path to list building for me. So I'm going to copy what he's doing. I'm going to watch him and copy what he's doing. There is nothing new under the sun. Most the products out there including Frank Kern's is rehashed stuff. It's rehashed stuff. You don't make it better what you do is personalize it with your own voice. Right? Because remember you're not trying somebody, you'll get nobody. is my training platform for my team, however, no matter what you are in, no matter what you are promoting from my webinars to the videos in there, you can learn what I do and if you implement and copy you'll win all day like Chili's happy hour.

Igor: Alright guys, you heard the man, it's It's Michelangelo's training platform. Michelangelo, thank you so much this has been super fun, way more fun than most of my guests for sure. I appreciate you sharing nuggets. I appreciate you being able to do this today.

Michelangelo: By the way, someone said, "Michelangelo why did you sell your Corvette and get a BMW I8?" I told them, "I throw rocks at Corvettes now." [Laughter]

Igor: What?

Michelangelo: [laughter]

Igor: What do you mean?

Michelangelo: I throw rocks. I wouldn't get caught dead in a Corvette. I got the I8 BMW. I seen it in Mission Impossible: Goes Vertical. I only buy cars that are mutant Land Rover, Super Beetle, I8.

Igor: You're crazy.

Michelangelo: It's funny. It's a lifestyle. It's we're blessed to live the lifestyle we live.

Igor: Okay, I went to Vegas and I seen what you guys have though in America. I mean you guys live in a different planet. I mean you're not blessed, you're living on Mount Olympus. [laughter]

Michelangelo: Yeah. It's funny that you say that because people don't forget about that. You know I was listening to Ty Lopez and Ty Lopez says, "Man, if you live in America, you got stop being scared of taking risks and get out there in the jungle and America is the safest jungle to become an entrepreneur because if you fail, you can file bankruptcy, you can borrow money from banks and that. It's the easiest way to fail. It's the cushioned way to fail in America where in other countries, man, if you fail you pretty much lose it all." You know what I mean? That was an eye opener to me. I was like wow.

Igor: And people still complain, man. People still complain about how unfair it is and how difficult it is. I mean it's like get your shit together and do some work.

Michelangelo: Here's the biggest tip I'm going to leave your listeners with when you hang up, or when you finish listening to this, go to your TV grab a sledgehammer and fricking put a sledgehammer through your TV. Okay that's my two cents there.

Igor: Alright that's a great bombshell to end the episode on. So thank you everybody for listening today. And Michelangelo until the next time we talk, have a good one.

Michelangelo: Alright, buddy.

Thanks for listening to The List Building Lifestyle Show, make sure to subscribe on iTunes
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we share on the show might double your list and double your business. Download the
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Guide” at . This is Igor Kheifets until next time we talk, have a good one.

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Who Is Igor Kheifets

Igor Kheifets is the 3rd highest-earning super-affiliate in the internet marketing niche.

Igor’s 2-step system has helped him consistently rank as the highest-earning and the highest-converting (measured in commissions earned per click) for industry’s leading vendors including but not limited to Matt Bacak, John Crestani and Anthony Morrison.

Igor boiled down success in affiliate marketing to a set of predictable easy steps anyone can take to generate commissions.


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