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"It's about having impact. Nobody has more impact like the Joker and I don't care
what incarnation of The Joker you're looking at, the movies, the cartoons, the
comic books, whatever, he's the most deadly villain in the comic book world. He
doesn't even have super powers, yet all the super-power villains are scared to
death of him."

Hi, my name is Igor Kheifets and this is the List Building Lifestyle, the only podcast
which delivers cutting edge conversion strategies from the online trenches straight to
your earbuds. Download the transcript of today’s episode and all future episodes at
listbuilidnglifestylesshow.com. I also invite you to grab a free copy of “The Wealthy
List Builder’s Survival Guide” at listbuildinglifestyleshow.com/survival and now
once again it’s time to claim your List Building Lifestyle.

Igor: Welcome back to another edition of the List Building Lifestyle with your
host, Igor Kheifets. Ben Settle is the world's leading authority on email
copywriting. He's the founder and editor of the prestigious Email Players
newsletter. He's the email marketer other email marketers secretly wish to be.
Ben's my go-to source for email advice. Yet today, he's not going to be sharing
any email marketing secrets. No, today we dive deep into persuasion secrets of the
world's most charismatic and influential villains. Ben's true villain in the
heart, and he believes you have to be one to command mortals at will. Help me
welcome the true master of influence and persuasion, Mr Ben El Benbow Settle.

Ben: Oh, Igor, that's the nicest introduction. It's a better introduction than I
deserve, let's just put it that way.

Igor: [laughter] Well, I know how to respect a villain when I see one. So you're welcome.
So Ben, let's go ahead and dive right in. You just published a brand-new book called
Persuasion Secrets of the World's Most Charismatic and Influential Villains, and
it's a short book. Totally worth the price of the admission, probably worth ten
times the price, and it approaches the persuasion, philosophy I guess, or art,
from a totally different angle, which I've never seen before, and I read this
thing like four times at this point, to kind of make these principles get inside
my head and stick. So where does this villain philosophy come from?

Ben: Yeah. So originally, that book is ten separate articles that I kind of strung
together into a book. A year and a half ago, there was this website called
thepropervillains.com and it's, at the time of this recording, you can't find it
anywhere on the internet, not even in the Wayback Machine, or anything like that.
But the idea, the concept behind it, was truly brilliant. I remember reaching out
to the guys that put it together. So this was a great idea. They basically had
this philosophy of villains, and it was just male self-improvement stuff. So it
was like, "How to do better with girls" and "How to have a firearm and keep it
safe", "How to invest in things", and just "How to be successful in general". And
they asked me to come on to be one of the writers. So when you're one of the
writers, you get to create your own villain alter ego and all that, very
infotaining. It's basically male self-improvement with infotainment, basically.
But it was really just some unique site, and the first ten articles I did, I said,
"I want to do a ten-part series on how to be an influential and charismatic
villain." and so that's what I did. So that book is those ten articles, you can't
find them anywhere else on the internet or anything like that. But to me it seemed
like a waste, because they just kind of took their site down, I have no idea why.
Nobody knows why. But I kept those articles and I said I?m going to publish those
in the book. That's what I did. And when I say villain, it's not necessarily evil.
Some people say, "Oh, you're trying to be evil." "No, no, no. Being a villain is
basically just going against the established order of things. Sometimes the
established order of things is not good. I mean [laughter] and just being a
villain, in my way of thinking, is you're just kind of going off, and doing things
your own way, the way you think is right, following your own code of ethics, your
own code of honor. Kind of like the man on his horse. You're going to go do things
with or without anyone following you. You don't care. You have a mission in life,
and you're going to go after it and that's going to bother people. Whenever
somebody sticks their head up above the fray, people are going to take shots at
you. As you know Igor, I mean, I know you've gone through the same thing. And so,
that's kind of what the whole philosophy is about. It's not about being evil
necessarily, but it is about doing the opposite of wherever the established,
mainstream order of things is. If they're not doing things correctly, and I'm sure
you would agree with me, there's a lot of horseshit being taught out there, when
it comes around to mindset and success, and all that sort of thing. That's what
that book is trying to deal with.

Igor: Yeah. Well, I definitely know what you're talking about. In fact, I sort of
became... Now, that I'm realizing, I did implement some of these principles early
on. This philosophy, becoming a villain, has not only driven a bunch of people
away from me, it driven family members away. In other words, I developed this
passion for a mission, if you will. And I devoted my full self into it. I had two
full-time jobs, that I was working to one, to pay the bills, the other to fund my
online business, or what I wanted to be, or wanted to call an online business, at
the time, which it was. And it was just me trying to build a list. My father and
my mother, they were like... One of the principles in the book is slaying, driving
a stake through the time vampire's heart. I did that with my parents. My dad was
the biggest time vampire ever, and he did not get it. He just did not get why did
I become so distant all of a sudden, why did I withdrew myself, why I stopped
making any attempts whatsoever to reach out, to ask him how things are going. I
just basically devoted my full self to this mission, putting it above all, above
everything else in my life, because I knew that only once I get that done my life
would be truly the kind of life I wanted it to be.

Ben: Absolutely. That was a perfect example, chapter one, about having a mission.
I mean, there's nothing in this book that's new. I'm the first to admit it. These
are just things that are principles of life. They're not tactical. There's been
one one-star review for the book, some guy whining about, "This isn't really about
persuasion." But it is. Because by having a mission in life you are going to be
persuasive. You have a following now that follows you, because they know your
passion for list building with the Solo ads and all that sort of thing. Had you
not done what you did, you would be less influential in the world. Again, you will
be considered a villain if you do some of the stuff from that book. There's going
to be people who are going to look at what you're doing, and they're going to get
jealous. They want you to come have a beer with them instead of working on
whatever your passion is in life. Then there's going to be another set of people
that are going to be supremely attracted to what you're doing. When I say
attracted, I don't necessarily mean girls fawning over you, but men and women just
attracted to you as an influential and charismatic leader that they can follow,
and that they want to follow because people are really looking for that. It's very
rare to find anyone who's truly got a mission in life. I mean, you and I deal with
internet marketers all day long, but you and I both know that 99% of them don't
have a mission. They're just wandering around, floating from one thing to the
next, they never specialize in anything, they never look at something and say,
like you did with Solo ads, for example, you said, "I'm going to be that. I'm
going to be the best at that." And you worked toward it every day just like I
worked toward email copywriting every day. Most people don't ever do that. They
just flit around, they're more like jack of all trades, and then they're masters
of none. But we flipped that around. You have a mission; you just become a master
at something. You become the best you can be at it, and everything just sort of
works out around you as a result.

Igor: Well, you see, this is a very interesting idea, because the guy who wrote
that one-star review, he obviously doesn't get it. He was expecting, as you say,
their tactics and specific words you could use to influence and to hypnotize
people or whatever, but the truth of the matter is that influence is what you can
command over others without saying a word sometimes. Just being who you are, just
with your being. A perfect example is, oftentimes, again, on coaching calls with
my VIP members, members of my Solo VIP club. Sometimes, not a lot, but sometimes
I'll get an occasional member who says something along the lines of, "Hey Igor, I
am very successful in this other thing that I'm doing, and I'm only starting this
other business where I want to use your traffic to..." and then he names some sort
of secondary purpose. I don't know. Whatever that purpose is. To generate cash
flow, whatever that person wants to do. And he says, "I really don't have the time
for it. I can do a couple of hours on the weekends. So here I am, waiting for you
to tell me how to grow this business with a couple of hours on the weekends." Now,
first off, that's a really bad question because it tells you that this person has
no mission, or should I say he has a mission, but it's not here. And not having
this mission, it's really difficult to build a business and to succeed with paid
traffic and to just have a profitable thing going on. Because let's face it, if
you're not putting time into it, then it ain't going to grow even if you are
working with someone who is considered to be one of the best in the world in this
particular field. So when you say, "committing to a mission", the reason this
shows, or should I say projects, influence upon others is just with your being.
It's not about the best persuasion tactic. Because I'm sure Ben, and you can tell
me if this is true or not, I can give you the same vocabulary as I would give to
someone else who does not commit themselves to a mission, and you will always come
across more persuasive than them.

Ben: What you just said reminds me of something. [laughter] It's a really good
example of something. I don't know how many emails I sent out to promote this
book, or last couple of weekends ago, but it was a lot. It was like 18 over a
weekend. One of the emails is about why I think so-called Facebook accountability
groups are complete bullshit. And I said there are people who need them. They're
called minions, henchmen, people who are followers, they need that stuff. But if
you're a leader, you don't need a freaking accountability group. If anything,
you're keeping other people accountable to you because you wake up knowing what
needs to be done and that's all you think about when you wake up in the morning,
it's all you think about when you go to bed at night. You just know what it is
you're supposed to do. You don't need anyone holding you accountable. If anything,
you're holding the people around you accountable, who are supposed to be helping
you toward this mission. And if they're not going to do that, they get cast out of
your life, because they're time vampires and other things. Those left over are...
You're persuading them in ways that you don't even realize. You don't have, like
you said, you don't have to say a word. It's kind of like the late actor Steve
McQueen. Now, he was the highest-paid actor in the world in his day. He's also
considered one of the best actors of our time. I mean, you can ask any acting
coach they will all tell you this. He was just the best of the best. One of the
things he was... And he was a true villain. He would actually through scripts and
stuff and say, "No. You need to write this better." He was just like, on set, he
was a pain in everyone's ass, but that's how he created such great movies. Well
anyway, he had ability to just say... He would throw out pages of dialogue. He
would see like three pages of dialogue for his character and he would just ignore
it all because he could say it all with just a look in the camera. That is what it
means to have a mission in life. You don't have to say anything. People will just
observe what you're doing and respond to it. They may not all like you, but
everyone's going to at least respect what you're doing. And that's really more
important to being liked anyway, as far as I'm concerned. So it is. Just having a
mission just can absolutely change your life overnight, within an instant, just
the second you decide to have one and go for it.

Igor: It's interesting. This is a big concept, having a mission. But let's just
take a look at this same concept from a different angle. In chapter five, you talk
about ruthlessly knocking people off their pedestals. Now, when I first read it, I
did not really understand what that meant. So do you mind going just a little bit
into exactly what does that mean, to knock people off their pedestals?

Ben: Well, okay. Yeah. At first glance it almost sounds [laughter] am I telling
people to throw someone down and kick them or something. That's not what I'm
saying. People tend to put people and other things on pedestals that they
shouldn't. So for example, I'll take this to the dating niche, because you and I
like talking about this. Last time you and I talked, we seem to talk about that an
awful lot...

Igor: Yeah, pretty much. [laughter]

Ben: In fact, I'm going to put the transcript of that interview in the February
Email Players issue, because Valentine's Day and all that. [laughter]

Igor: [laughter] Perfect.

Ben: But it's a good analogy, because it makes sense of a lot of things. There's a
guy who puts a girl on a pedestal, meaning he just sacrifices everything, his
time, his mission. He does everything just for her. And I'm not saying do not do
nice things for your woman, that's not what I'm saying. But if you put somebody on
a pedestal, there's absolutely no way they can look at you except down on you. I
mean, that's just the way it goes, whether it's literally or figuratively. If you
put someone above you, they have to look down on you. It's not like they're doing
anything wrong, they're not doing it on purpose, it's not malicious, you
positioned yourself in a way where that's while people are looking at you. That's
why the so-called nice guys out there, and believe me, I was one for many, many
years of my life, so I can tell you this from personal experience, that's why
they're always getting shit on by everybody. It's not because... I'm not saying
you can't be kind, and I'm not saying to not be respectful, that's not what I'm
talking about. All I'm saying is, don't put everybody above you. The second you
start doing that they can only look down on you. That's why people who put their
jobs on a pedestal for example, they're constantly being looked down upon by their
bosses and everything. You've got to put your mission on a pedestal, whatever that
mission is. Maybe your mission is to build a billion-dollar empire, fine. Put that
on the pedestal. That's the one thing I would look at, put on a pedestal. And
again, I'm not saying to not love people or anything like that. That's not what
I'm saying. But you have to take care of yourself first and foremost. One of the
other chapters in there is about be ruthlessly selfish. Because you have to be. If
you want to accomplish... Let's take you for example. You had to kind of do your
thing and so a lot of people got mad at you. They're probably saying, "Oh, Igor is
just selfish." and all this. But you're not being selfish. You're actually
providing for your family so much better than you would normally because you put
your own oxygen mask on. In the plane, they say, "Put your oxygen mask on before
you assist anyone else." You put yours on first. Now, you can help other people.
And people might say, "Aren't you being selfish putting yours on when your kid is
sitting next to you and he needs his oxygen mask?" You can't, because if you're
dead, you're no good to the kid. I mean... Yeah, you can take this literally or
figuratively, however you want, but that's what I mean by not putting people on a
pedestal. Put your mission on a pedestal. Don't put people, or a job, or anything
like that, or a customer, a client, on a pedestal, or they can only look down on
you.

Igor: Let me ask you something, Ben. How much of this, of putting other people on
the pedestal, comes from just being a nice person, a nice guy if you will.

Ben: I think it always stems from that. Nice guys, this is why nice guys tend to
be actually very not nice. They're being nice because they want something. I mean,
if you talk... I know a lot of nice guys. Again, I'm not saying they're all like
this. But I know a lot of nice guys who we're talking about here, who go around
telling people they're nice guys. They will go out with girls and they will do
everything for these girls and then when the girl just decides she's not attracted
to him, they get mad at her and start yelling at her and stuff. That's not very
nice. You know what I mean? They brought it on themselves by putting other people
on a pedestal to manipulate people. They're doing it for the wrong reasons. So I
think there's a difference between nice and kind. Now, Igor, you tell me, you're
Jewish? You're a Jewish guy?

Igor: Yeah.

Ben: Okay. Now, I'm a Christian guy, so we do kind of have that shared Old
Testament mentality. The Old Testament God nowhere is he described as nice. Not a
single time. He's not described nice any testament, actually.

Igor: [laughter]

Ben: Guy is never described as nice. I bet it's the same in every other religion.
Why? Because it's not a good attribute. But I see a lot of other so-called
negative attributes, like wrath and jealousy [laughter] People put these things
and say, "You can't do the." But those are actually kind of Godly attributes. I'm
not saying to take them too far or anything, but they can help motivate you to do
things and get things done. Being nice is not one of those things that's going to
motivate you to do anything. If you're nice person, nobody's going to... You're
not going to be persuasive to anybody, if you're just overly sweet and nice, and
you let people kick you around and walk all over you, and all that. It's hard to
be persuasive like that. It's harder to have influence like that. You're not
really any good to a lot of people if you're like that, even if you want to be. So
I'm not saying don't be kind, I'm not saying not be respectful. I think kindness
and respect are very important. I really do. I think those are... I think
everybody should show that. I don't think you should respect people who don't
respect you back necessarily, but just don't be syrupy nice to the point where you
just let everybody walk all over you, and you're always putting everybody else's
goals and everybody else's mission before your own. So for example, I talk about
this in one of the chapters, about time management. The first hour should belong
to you. Not a boss, or a client, or anything like that. Put the first hour toward
yourself. Does it feel selfish? Too bad. Grow up and deal with it, because that's
the only way you're really going to get what you want in life, is by investing in
yourself before you invest in other people. That's just the way I look at it.

Igor: Yeah, and I actually implemented this approach ever since reading the book
for the first time, and at the day, between 8AM and 9AM, it's my hour. I used to
wake up and check my email, and get sucked into the Facebook chat, and kind of
deal with the problems, and the day would just kick off in such a bad way and it
would snowball into a disaster, and by the time I'm done, like 6PM or something,
when I'm usually done with my work day, it's like I would feel exhausted,
frustrated, and I would feel pissed off as well because I didn't do anything. It
didn't feel like I did enough or that I was even productive even though I spend
the actual day working. But giving this hour to myself... And this could be even
less than an hour. Craig Ballantyne from Early to Rise newsletter, he says 15
minutes. That's his perfect day formula. It starts with just 15 minutes for
yourself. So even if it's just 15, 30 minutes, whatever that is, giving this time
to yourself, whether to meditate, to work on your goals. I mean, whatever that is
for you. Maybe it's playing PlayStation. Maybe that's what gets you off.

Ben: [laughter]

Igor: So that sets off a day in a totally different, in a completely different
way. I'm not sure why, but every day that I start by giving this hour to myself,
by turning off any distraction, and not getting into my inbox, and simply doing
what I want to do, which right now, at the time of this recording, is radical
forgiveness exercises, where I just sit down and I literally think of a person who
hurt my feelings and just try to forgive them, which sounds kind of wishy-wishy
whatever, but it's an exercise which helps me get rid of lots of emotional
baggage, and which the founder of Mind Valley shares in one of his videos. I just
decided to create this habit. So I started to do it, do it every day. I mean the
last several days of me doing it are incredible. I developed a new offer, created
five different sequences, hired a new employee, just a bunch of different people.
Now, I'm not saying, of course, that's all because they gave this hour to myself,
but damn it, it's so much easier to stay productive and be happy when I pay myself
first when I selfishly do it. Kind of circling back a little bit to being a nice
guy, I just want to read out this quote in your book. It says, "If you expect the
world to be fair with you because you are fair, you're fooling yourself. That's
like expecting the lion not to each you because you didn't eat him."

Ben: I found that quote on Twitter somewhere, I think. [laughter] But I remember
it stuck with me a lot because it really sums up everything that I want to say on
that subject with one little quote, and it's true. Life is not fair. If you have a
family especially, you've got to take care of them. You can't do that if you're
giving your bosses family precedent over your own, given them the best part of
your day, and the best part of your creed to be in the best part of your mind. I'm
not saying to slack off at work or the like that. What I am saying is that in your
experience this is by giving yourself the first hour of the day to put towards
your mission. Since we're talking to internet marketers, here we'll say their
business for example. You're going to go to work now with a much more peace of
mind. You're not going to be coming home exhausted thinking, "God, now I've got to
work on my stuff." You're going to go in there with just an attitude that's
actually going to make you a better at that job than it would be if you were
putting off your own thing all day, because you just know in your gut that you're
not doing right by yourself, you're not doing right by your family, you're not
doing right by your mission if you don't put it first. So it's a weird thing,
these are all simple things and they're all very doable by anybody, that's the
best part of it and there's nothing in that book that anyone's going to look and
say, "I can't do that." I mean they could.

Igor: Well, there is one. Let's be honest. There is one concept which is so
controversial that my bet is 99% of people who read that book will never do it.
You know what I'm talking about, it's The Joker.

Ben: The Joker one?

Igor: Yeah. You're basically telling people, "Go kill tons of people for fun and,
raise havoc in the city." Whatever. I mean you're just telling, "Be the Joker."
That's the actual chapter in the book, Be the Joker. How can anybody, without of
course getting deep into the concept just not say, "No, no, no, no, no. I'm a nice
person. I don't want to be The Joker. Joker is fucking crazy."

Ben: Well that's true, and I say, "Be The Joker." But then like right away I say,
"It's it doesn't mean commit mass genocide for kicks."

Igor: [laughter]

Ben: You don't have to bleach your skin. [laughter] It's about having impact.
Nobody has more impact like The Joker and I don't care what incarnation of The
Joker you're looking at, the movies, the cartoons, the comic books, whatever. He's
the most deadly villain in the comic book world. He doesn't have super powers, yet
all the super power villains are scared to death of them because he has impact,
everything he does has impact. I think I cover 13 ways how he has impact, but for
example, he's always telling stories. Remember the one, "You want to know how I
these scars?" story? I love that kind of stuff.

Igor: That's beautiful.

Ben: You can't forget The Joker, you cannot be indifferent to this guy. You love
him or hate him, it doesn't matter. He attracts henchmen, people, he attracts
Harley Quinn. The girl turns the psychiatrist chick into his woman. I mean, he has
impact, okay? That's the thing. That's what makes him charismatic and influential.
Again, I'm not to go up kill people for kicks, or anything like that. Obviously I
wouldn't advocate that, what I'm saying is have impact the way he does. I like
that I was them. I wouldn't advocate that. What I'm saying is, have impact the way
he does, there's so many ways he does it. If you do even half the ways he does it,
you're going to stick out like a fart in study hall whether it be in the email
inbox, or just in your marketing in general, would be solo ads, or whatever you're
doing you're going to stand out whether you're giving talks, public talks or
whatever. I mean I implement the stuff all the time I sub. That's only reason I
could work this out. I was always thinking about these things. I'm like, "Okay, I
actually did learn this from The Joker." [laughter] What I just did in this talk,
or whatever. It's what it is. Impact. Impact is something that a lot of people
just never have, and they're forgettable as a result.

Igor: One of the best ways for m, that stands out for me as for The Joker and the
way he creates impact is being unpredictable. You know how he burns this huge pile
of money in the Dark Knight movie. I mean he just went through all this trouble to
get half of the money of that giant pile of money, and he just burns it. The
villains who are standing right next to him who are giving him the money, they
just cannot process it, and they're like jumping, "Stop burning your own money,
idiot." I mean being unpredictable like that is not only effective in sales copy,
email, persuasion, but just in general in life. If you are predictable you will
never get respect. In fact, one of the principles that Robert Greene discusses in
the 48 Laws of Power. I think is that we feel superior to the people whose actions
we can predict.

Ben: Oh, absolutely. I completely agree with that. In fact, 48 Laws of Power is an
interesting book, in it of itself. My book is like a very small microcasm of what
that book teaches. Very small, not nearly as in-depth, honestly. [laughter] It's
kind of like my low attention span version of that. Because at the end of the day,
I'll give this away to you a little bit. Okay, so I just gave this talk at AWAI,
the American Writers and Artists Institute. Very big copywriting company, they
train copywriters. I spoke in front about 6-700 or something. That's a few, like
about a month ago. They had me on a panel after my talk with Brian Kurtz and
Carline Anglade-Cole. Now Carlene is one of the by a far, probably one the, easily
one of the top direct mail copywriters on the planet right now, there's no doubt
about it. Brian Kurtz is like the godfather of direct marketing, modern direct
marketing today. Anyone in our world knows who those two are unless you're brand
new or something. Anyway, it was weird. They asked the three of us on the panel,
"Why is it that you do this? Why did you want to get good at this? Why do you do
this?" They gave their answers. Not like their answers are bad or anything, but I
think I kind of scared the audience a little bit for a second when I said, "I do
this because I want power." [laughter]

Igor: Well, at least you're honest. [laughter]

Ben: Yeah, I'm totally honest. I'm like, "I want power." I told the story about,
that Gary Halbert told in the ball room letters when he was in prison writing
these letters to a son about how to do direct marketing. He told the story about
the cat Crackers, used to hang around the prison yard. He said, "Nobody liked the
stupid cat Crackers." It's like a bully cat. He said he watched Crackers bat this
mouse. But the mouse kind of looked like it was going to get away, they he'd catch
it and bat it around. Make it think it's going to get away and bat it around. The
cat did this to this mouse and, so he died of exhaustion. He's like, "Look I don't
know what's the purpose of me telling you this is." Other than something that he
heard in the National Enquirer recently at the time, which is there is no justice,
there's only power in this world. I agree with that. I think having power is an
important thing if you want to have any kind of, make any kind of change in this
world. The world is change of the check book, as a publicity guru Paul Hartunian
likes to say. It's not changed by Facebook likes and all this crap, it's by having
power and using it. Does that mean you should use it to commit mass genocide? No,
I'm not saying that. [laughter] What I'm saying is that power over your own life,
power over as much as possible over the things that happen in your life. You can
never control everything, but having a lot of power will help you deal what
negative things that come your way and stress that comes, adversity that comes
your way, than not having power will do. Yeah, power. Then it was funny because
Brian Kurtz turned to me on the panels, he goes, "I change my answer to that."
[laughter] Because it's important. At the end of the day it's an important thing,
that's really why I think a lot of people do it. You have power over what happens
and use it as do the farthest extent as you can.

Igor: Yeah, I guess it's the constant striving to have more control over our
lives. I mean that's what money is for me. I know I can't buy people really, but
to an extent I can control my life and protect myself from all kinds of harm. I'm
not even talking about creating luxury, I'm just talking about protecting myself
to a point where stuff like debt or mortgages or unexpected medical kind of mishap
or whatever, these don't feel like disasters.

Ben: Absolutely. Is gives you power over these is much as possible. I mean
obviously, there's always going to be things that happen as we can't control.
Let's say some idiot just tries to sue you for no reason. It's better to have a
lot of power at that point. So you can snuff that out, however you have to do it.
You know what I mean? It can be your own government trying to screw with you. Like
saying you owe taxes and stuff you don't. Better to have power, so you can fight
back at that kind of thing, just be at the mercy of these things that happen to us
in life. Again, there's no guarantees against anything, but I would rather, if I
have a choice from having power or not having power, I want power. I do know that
power corrupts, so I understand that. I think that's why self-discipline and being
grounded is so important. Absolutely. But at the end of the day, that's why I do
this. I think that's what this book ultimately... Even I don't really say in the
book, that is ultimately what the book is about, how to have power over yourself
and over those that you want to help you achieve your mission or as I would say,
your henchmen and maids. [laughter]

Igor: It funny. It's funny Ben, because I noticed in my life, the more power I
have over myself, usually the more power I will be able to have over other people
and the more henchmen then I will be able to recruit. In other words, rather than
looking outside of myself for the source of power, I try to look for within which
means building my own capital. Just like in one of the chapters reveals, building
a "Screw you" fund, dealing with my own emotions and not a just falling for the
traps I set for myself, because my brain screws with me all the time. So I can
definitely relate, and the concept of power, I mean, it's a big one. I'm sure a
lot of people are cringing as you say it, because again, nice guys can't think of
themselves that way. Right? They think power is bad. They think making lots of
money is bad. Like Donald Trump is a bad person because he's super wealthy and he
says all crazy kind of shit from the stage, so, "I don't want to have power. I
don't want to be like Donald Trump." All these misconceptions they have about
power and money and independence is what gets in the way of them becoming villains
and mix in their needings.

Ben: A lot of that's them falling for talking points. I mean Hilary has probably
more power than Trump does. Clinton machine is extremely powerful. So if that's
the reasoning, then they need to look at both and say, "Wait a minute." It's easy
for people to pick on one, the people they disagree with. I get it, but I'll tell
you what. Trump wouldn't have won if he didn't have power, power over himself,
power just in his life. I mean there's no way that would have happened. It doesn't
mean you have to try to be a president, but the nice guys need to get this out of
their head that being nice is what... Being nice makes them a victim and a target.
That's all it does. If they're going to let people all over them, they're just
going to be targets. Predators don't mess with people who have power. They mess
with people who are powerless, and if there's no other reason we could have power,
there it is for you. Because there's a lot of predators out there who take
advantage of people.

Igor: It's funny you mention predators. I was just thinking about this other day.
I think Beau Eason was the first one I heard it from. He said, "Predators don't
look for other predators. They look for prey."

Ben: Absolutely. Take it back to Crackers the cat thing. Do you want to be the cat
or the mouse? Because you can't be both. [laughter] You can't be a mouse with a
cat tail or whatever. You're either going to be the one with the power, or you're
going to be one without the power. Have you ever watched that the show Breaking
Bad, Igor?

Igor: Love it. Come on.

Ben: [laughter] Do you remember the gang lord. They had them under protective
custody in Mexico, he is like, "Some men are meant to drink and some men are meant
to pour." You have to be one or the other, you can't be the both, but that
kind of narrows it down right there to one little sound byte.

Igor: I know, but isn't Heisenberg like, that's why I love the show. He goes from
a total loser, total needy, like the nicest guy ever, a chemistry teacher in high school
to becoming the largest drug lord in the Southwest. He goes against bad ass gangsters
and he blows them up and just... He does things, it's so weird and unpredictable because
he's such a nice guy. Every time he does something to push his comfort zone, and
he surprises himself. As a viewer of the show, I'm surprised 10 times greater than
him. One of the things I remember, actually, that really stood out for me, is the
way he had sex with his wife, the moment he realized he kind of got a taste of
that power.

Ben: Yeah.

Igor: Where he just stepped in. I think it was in the car and he just took her.
That's all he did. He didn't say a word, just grabbed her and he took her just
like with the sheer domination. That is just, it sums up the entire Heisenberg
transformation for me in one episode.

Ben: Absolutely. His downfall was, he let the power corrupt him. I think that's
we're staying grounded comes in. Because, first of all, most of us would be doing
what he did, but if we did it, we sure as hell would have got out while the
getting was good. [laughter] Not just to keep getting greedier. That's the thing.
Greed will make... That's another thing. I mean, we're kind of forward looking
here, but assuming somebody gets a lot of power, it's like down, you have to have
more responsibility. It's like Spiderman, right? With great power comes great
responsibility, and I like to think this book teaches both. I really think it
does, because if you go in with the right attitude the right principles in place
you will be responsible. You kind of have to be. So hopefully nobody uses these
principles for bad, but again, it's not like I invented any of that stuff. I
simply put it in a way that I think was interesting for people to get, and it made
people learn, re-learn things they'd already known, or maybe they're looking at
the stuff for the first time. Either way, it doesn't matter. At the end of the
day, it's all about is becoming better people and in a way serving the world
better, in whatever way that is. They're our missions. That's it.

Igor: The way I would sum up this episode, because we're coming towards the end
is, if you want to help other people, if you want to become a better person, if
you want to make a dent in the universe, if you will, if you want to leave a great
legacy, you have to stop being a nice guy and strive to be the villain Ben talks
about in the book. Because, let's face it, Steve Jobs was a villain. He would
actually fire people over...

Ben: Absolutely.

Igor: ...screwing up with the font like the size and the style, or whatever. He
would go to almost every store in New York City, the new ones that he wanted to
open up, and he would like literally get really detail with every single design
piece. He was a villain in that regard. He never took anything less than he
demanded. He was committed to the mission at all times, up until the point he
died. So if you think of the way Steve Jobs impacted the world, I mean he was a
true villain at heart. So Ben, now we're getting close to the end, I'm just
curious, what are you working on these days?

Ben: As of today actually, I'm trying to finish up my seventh novel of Enoch
series, that's a book of seven novels. I pounded up the last four through seven
since July, all the first drafts. Next year I'm going to start editing in
publishing them one by one. I'll give you some of my mission for example right
now, and I'm committed to this, as I want to do a TED Talk. I have a topic and I
have a pretty good chance of getting in, for reasons too long to go onto here,
think by next summer I would have done a TED Talk, so that would be interesting.
That's what I'm trying to do. I'm just trying to get out there and do things, and
push myself to do thing I never would have done before. My mission right now,
financially, I'm okay financially. I'm at where getting money isn't my main thing
anymore. I mean I leave a lot of money on the table, because it's not what
interests me. It's accomplishing things that other people haven't accomplished, or
not in great number at least. That's what motivates me every day, that's what gets
me up. So that's what I've been working on, and I will continue to work on.

Igor: Nice. Well, if you need us to vote to get you on that TED Talk in any way,
then feel free to drop me a link, I'll definitely blast it out to the list.

Ben: That'd be nice. [laughter]

Igor: Where can we go to find more about you, how can we get more of villainous
ways?

Ben: Okay. You can just go to BenSettle.com, and you give me your precious
snowflake, like email addresses, I will send you the first issue my Email Players
newsletter. Igor's a subscriber, has been for a while.

Igor: A while? Dude. Three years, over three years. I sent you more money than I
gave my lawyer and my accountant, I think.

Ben: Well, there you go, there's proof. So it's a print newsletter, but I'll give
you a pdf of the first issue, there's 24 ways in there, just make more sales with
your email starting right away, and I've had many people tell me they made like
thousands, if not tens of thousand dollars just with the information in that
issue. So that's free. If you don't want to give me your email, that's fine. You
can still just click through to the blog. There's almost 2000 pages of articles on
there, well over a dozen hours of audio and video training, it's all free, and
it's mostly email copywriting, and just copywriting focused, but I talk about
other stuff, like villain stuff we were talking about. That's where you find me.

Igor: Alright. So you heard him boys and girls, that's www.BenSettle, that's
double T. BenSettle.com, and you should give them your email, you should get that
first issue. In fact, you should definitely subscribe to the prestigious Email
Players newsletter, because with that you also get a bonus Email Players handbook,
which I still use every single time I sit down to write. For subject line ideas,
for email ideas, for email structure reminders, so it's just a precious resource
that I've used to make a lot of money at this point. So Ben, thank you so much for
coming down and doing this with us again, this is your second episode. So
definitely not the last, and again, thank you so much. Until next time we talk,
have good one.

Ben: Thank you man, appreciate it.

Thanks for listening to The List Building Lifestyle Show, make sure to subscribe on iTunes
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