The Two Brains

I hate my dad.

I hate him because he is stupid.

Well, he’s smart. He’s actually an engineer, but he doesn’t act like one.

He’s totally irrational and often irresponsible with his money.

Which is why I spent the first three and a half years of my internet career bootstrapping my business.

In other words, he’s a great example of how to NOT act with your money.

Today I’m sharing the full never-before-spoken-of story of the relationship between me and my dad and how it shaped and forced me to get SMART about money, marketing and success.

And how I used what I learned observing his destructive behaviour in my business.

Then, Producer Jonathan makes me spill the motivations, fears, and insecurities of the average business opportunity prospect and how to ethically use this intel to 10x your conversions.


This program is brought to you by the

Hi, my name is Igor Kheifets and this is the List Building Lifestyle, the only podcast
which delivers cutting edge conversion strategies from the online trenches straight to
your earbuds. Download the transcript of today’s episode and all future episodes at I also invite you to grab a free copy of “The Wealthy
List Builder’s Survival Guide” at and now
once again it’s time to claim your List Building Lifestyle.

Jonathan: You are listening to List Building Lifestyle with the Chief List
Builder himself, Mr. Igor Kheifets. What is up my man?

Igor: Doing well, Jonathan. Nurturing a bit of a cold so my voice is deeper and
smoother than usual. I’m sure that’s about to change in about a few days but
doing pretty darn well, extremely productive. I’m talking about doing this
episode because we’ve got some important stuff to talk about.

Jonathan: No kidding and I hear that you’re going to be making a trip to U.S.
soon. Probably before this thing airs but are you going to be visiting any of
your List Building Lifestyle fans out there in the U.S.?

Igor: Well, I have actually tried to keep it a secret but thank you so much for
letting the world know. Actually I’m going to be meeting with a few people for
sure, some of my VIP Club members as well. It’s really exciting to be visiting
an affording country knowing you got people out there who you touched like
whose lives you touched which is kind of cool. I first experienced it back in 2014
when I traveled to Orlando for the JVZoo Event where for the first time ever I
met a good dozen people who went full-time online thanks to going through my
coaching program.

Jonathan: Wow.

Igor: Like I could actually put voices to faces and I could hug them and shake
their hands and actually feel the energy, to find out what it actually means
when somebody is grateful for you touching their life in that way. Again I spoke
about this before, it’s extremely awarding. It’s addictive and you know
that’s the kind of feeling that I strive for whenever we sit down to do the
podcast because the podcast too is a way for us to touch lives. Right? And
hopefully in a more productive way because we are able to touch many lives all
at the same time. In fact, I was just speaking to a client earlier today, a VIP
member who is a bit stuck in his business. He’s an older gentleman. I think he
is closing on 60 years old and he’s been struggling lately to make sales.
He’s really not able to make any progress and so I gave him actually one of
the un-aired episodes which we haven’t published yet with an amazing person
just somebody who I respect and admire a lot. The advice shared in that episode
kind of opened his eyes to all the mistakes he was making and gave him hope and
inspired him to start taking action in a whole new direction which he was
ignoring up until now. The email that he wrote back was just amazing. I have
seen the guy change his mind from total desperation and anxiety and fear to
hope, determination, and confidence.

Jonathan: Wow.

Igor: So it’s just amazing what a 20 minute episode can do for somebody.

Jonathan: Dude, that’s like the best endorsement for podcasting ever. So what
do you have in store for us today, Igor?

Igor: You know, Jonathan, I want to talk a little bit about the brain. The part
of the body which is often ignored but which is the primary element in the
decision making process, you know, the orthodox school of thinking tells us we
must be logical and rational in our marketing approach, that we must build an
airtight logical case in order to move the prospect to action but anyone who has
been in the real world belly to belly selling environment knows that prospects
are not rational. Logic does not appeal to them. In fact, the only time that
they use logic is to rationalize the emotional decision they already made.
Before I give you an example of how that works, here’s why this happens. You
see we have got two brains. We don’t have one brain, we have two. One brain is
the emotional brain. It’s the primal if you will. It’s the brain we used
when we were like monkeys. It’s mostly emotional; you know fear, lust, and all
these other desires which are not logical or rational. They all reside in that
part of the brain. The other side of the brain is logical. It’s the one we use
to solve math problems and puzzles and stuff like that. So people think that you
can actually be like somewhat rational and logical and just use this other part
of the brain which allows you to make these sound, wise decisions but the
reality is that the decision is always made in the irrational, emotional side of
the brain and then it is transferred to the logical side to be justified. So
there is no decision that you ever make that is not emotional first and then it
is being justified by your logical side. I will give you a great example out of
my own life; a couple of weeks ago my dad, his car broke down. His car was okay.
It was an Opal, I’m not sure if you guys know what an Opal is. I mean I haven’t
seen an Opal in America but anyone who lives in U.K. knows this by the
name of Vauxhall. It’s an Australian vehicle, I think by origin but Opal is
the German version of the same thing. It broke down. Basically it still goes but
not well. So my dad instead of fixing the car which he tried for little while. I
know after one attempt of fixing the car and it not working, instead of going to
another car shop or garage or maybe Googling the solution. He decides to buy a
new car. Why? Because if that car broke down that means I got to buy a new car
so in and of itself it’s an emotional decision. But then there is another
level, another dimension to this whole thing. You see my dad can’t afford a
brand new car. It’s as clear as day to both him and me. He does not have the
money to buy a new car. So he comes to me and he is asking me to give him the
money to buy the new car. I say ‘no’ dad, we have been over this I’ve been
trying to help you become educated financially, something you failed to do your
entire life and so no buying a new car is not an option for you. He says either
you can give me the money or I can loan the money from the bank. I am like if
you feel like loaning the money and getting more debt then go and be my guest.
The funny part is that he did. Now calculating the whole thing, it’s not like
he jumped into it. He actually calculated and he says, “I think I’ll be able
to handle it.” And on paper it sounds like he can but then I said, “Okay
Dad, you calculated the cost of the car but now you have the insurance and all
these other things plus when it breaks down and it will you have to pay etc.”
So he chooses not to listen to me, and buy an expensive car. A car that is just
on the verge of what the bank would allow him to do. In other words, if the bank
would agree to give him anywhere between $10,000 to $20,000 then he would take
the $20,000. He wouldn’t go for the 10, he would go for the max. So he takes
the 20, he buys the car and the next day when he needs to install an insurance
thing and then he needs to install another thing which tracks – it’s like a
chip in the car which tracks its location so you got to put one of those in. So
all in all, he realizes very fast that he is in over his head. So the next day,
he comes to me and he is asking me for money. He says, “Son, I need you to
really chip in because I can’t handle it. I won’t be able to afford it.”
Here’s the thing. Why would you do it knowing up front that you will not be
able to afford it? Why would you go for a loan? Why would you take out a loan on
the car without having any extra source of income? Why would you do something so
stupid and be so emotional and use like these tiny little circumstances to
justify your decision like “oh my old car broke down so instead of fixing it
and spending 200 bucks, I’ll go and I’ll buy a new car for $20,000.” That
is not logic. That is not rationalizing anything. That is pure emotion and
childish behavior. What we would call childish I guess in our societies. So
that’s a great example of how somebody completely rational person, I mean my
dad is actually very smart. He’s an engineer by trade. It’s how smart people
go ahead and make emotional decisions and they are not even aware of that
because that is just how the brain works. So that is exactly what I want to talk
about the two brains today because most people what they do is they try to
appeal to the logic and to the rational part of the brain when they talk to
their prospects and they use the logic and the rational when they operate their
business as well. I don’t see them focusing on any emotional stuff in their
pitches, in their marketing, in their emails, nowhere. It’s mostly about “oh
I got this amazing thing.” Okay, so what? What is this amazing thing do for
me? How does it help me achieve my goals? How does it appeal to my greed? How
does it appeal to the sexual instinct in me? How does appeal to the emotional
side, the fears, the insecurities? Where’s all that? I don’t see enough of
marketing in that department, Jonathan. It just pisses me off.

Jonathan: You know that’s something I struggle with because I’m a sociopath
and I have no empathy. [laughter]

Igor: [laughter]

Jonathan: I’m just kidding but I do have some weak empathy and sometimes
it’s hard for me to get into that emotional place and I notice that anytime
I’m making a pitch it takes a lot of energy to get to the emotional place so
that’s my reason for not doing it but what do you think other people’s
reasons are for not going to the emotional side of things?

Igor: I guess if you try to appeal to the negative emotions and we spoke about
this, I think we have an episode entitled, “How to Make Them Cry and Take
Their Money” which is related to what we are discussing today. You kind of
feel weird and awkward and sometimes feel like an asshole when you to try to
appeal the emotional side of what the person is trying to purchase. The other
element which is equally as bad I think is the lack of understanding that people
are making emotional decisions because most people who try to market having
no marketing experience or no marketing knowledge have invested very little time
or effort into advancing their marketing skill set. They follow this orthodox
school of thinking that tells them, “Hey, appeal to the logic” because the
product is a no- brainer. The offer is a no-brainer. Anyone with a brain will
see the value in this. Well the good news is yeah sure I mean it’s great that
you got a product that delivers value but the bad news is that it is not enough
to push people into action because you’re fighting a highly emotional animal
on the other side. So you’re not speaking the same language when you’re
trying to appeal to the logical.

Jonathan: How do you tap into that emotional side, Igor?

Igor: Dude, I don’t know you just got to make an effort, I guess. I mean how
do you ride a bike? Just get on the bike and start pedaling, you fall a couple
of times and then you kind of start riding. So if you’re a human being,
you’re no stranger to emotions and just try to understand what’s going on in
that person’s world, try to understand why are they here, why are they trying
to buy this business opportunity, are they doing it because they are bored, are
they doing it because they need an adventure in their life, are they doing it
because their wife got fired and they need a second stream of income, are they
doing it because they hate their boss so they need something to get out, are
they doing it because they feel miserable waking up in the morning and commuting
for 40 minutes each way, are they doing it because they realize that there is no
prospect of growth in their current workplace and the idea that they will spend
another 10 years making the exact same amount of money makes them sick?
I mean it’s just normal people stuff. It’s just the kind of stuff that people
discuss over a cup of coffee or drink in a bar so just being open.

Jonathan: I got to push you a little bit more because you’re saying it and
you’re pretending that this is just normal stuff but I know better. I’m a
marketer so I know that you spent a lot of time talking to your customers to get
that because there is no way that you just came up with those ideas or am I

Igor: This is why I hate doing these calls with you, man. You know all my
secrets. Yes, I admit, okay, I spent a lot, a lot of time connecting with my
audience, a lot. In fact, I’m sure some people have arrived to this conclusion
at some point but I often scan my own support desk for the very same reason. I
want to stay – I want to be in the “know” with what’s going on in my
marketplace. I want to understand the motivations, I want to understand the
fears, I want to understand the insecurities, I want to understand the drive,
the emotional drive that my customers have when it comes to building an online
business. Now from reading and studying the sales letters and sales pitches that
people put out there and most of these pitches of course are crap, I mean they
are not working, trust me. You can get the wrong idea, you can get the idea that
it’s all about the money. You can get the idea it’s all about the amazing
new software or the amazing new app. But it’s not, it’s really not. If you
just spend 30 minutes a week connecting with people within your marketplace who
are just like you, who are trying to make money, just have a conversation and
the purpose of that conversation would be to learn as much as possible about
what drives the person sitting in front of you. Ask them a few questions, they
will open up like a book, and you’ll discover a whole new world. You’ll see
things that no sales pitch or sales video ever talks about. Trust me 99% of what
they are going to tell you is not going to be about traveling the world and
living a great lifestyle. It’s going to be about these mundane shitty
problems, this routine that people are stuck in that is what drives them for the
most part to start these online businesses. That’s what they want to get out of.

Jonathan: I’m going to push a little bit further because you have a giant list
of customers. What about the List Builders out there who are just starting out
and don’t have customers? How can they get into these conversations or do this
kind of reconnaissance that you’re talking about?

Igor: Oh that is easy, man. You can do forums. Just get on the forums, start
thread, get people sharing. People love talking about their problems. There is
nothing easier really than to get somebody talking about their problems.
Incidentally of course that also makes them trust you more; you know that is how
the brain works. So get on the forum, start a thread, share why you started this
business and then ask others to share and reciprocity will kick in and you’ll
see people giving their entire stories. Now of course you’ve got to be ready
to invest a lot of time into reading these because often they will give you more
details than you want to know but you’ll discover will be fascinating, will be
eye-opening. You’ll no longer struggle to come up with things to write emails
about because you’ll know exactly what that world, that inner world of your
target prospect looks like. If you don’t want to go on the forums, talk to
your teammates. If you’re in a business opportunity you’re probably a part
of some sort of Facebook group or mastermind or something. Just connect with
people one on one. Send them a private message and ask them if they want to get
in a quick chat. Most people will be happy because they don’t anyone in their
life that they can talk to about these problems. They can’t talk about this
with their partner because you know the partner doesn’t get them. They can’t
talk about this with their parents because their parents think they are just
wasting their time. They cannot talk about this with their siblings because
their siblings think they are crazy. So all the can hope for is for someone like
you who is a peer, who’s a friend to reach out and say hey I got a few minutes
and if you would like to share what’s on your mind, I’m ready to listen.

Jonathan: Nice. Hopefully, I didn’t take you too far off track but anything
else as we are coming to the close of this one?

Igor: Yeah. You know if all you do – if there is only one thing you take away
from this episode is that I want you to stop paying so much attention to the way
things are supposed to be and to the way that people are supposed to behave
because it’s never like that. For the most part, people behave in a very
irrational and illogical way and that is what I want you to accept. Now once you
accept that you’ll be able to communicate with your prospects the way they are
supposed to be communicated not the way you want to communicate with them
that will change your game, it will change your results, and it might as well change
your entire life.

Jonathan: Nice. So what do you have coming up the List Builders next time, Igor?

Igor: Next time, I got Diane Hochman. I’m hosting her on the show. She is
going to share the ‘Seven Biblical Mindset Hacks’ which all millionaires
swear by. Okay these are very specific ways of thinking about your business
and your life which govern the way millionaires behave. I’m talking about
self-made millionaires, not millionaires that were born into money. I’m
talking about millionaires that made their wealth starting from scratch just
like us.

Jonathan: Wow. Now that sounds fascinating. Looking forward to it. So that is
a wrap for another List Building Lifestyle. Thank you, Igor. Thank you, List
Builders. We will be back in your earbuds next time.

Thanks for listening to The List Building Lifestyle Show, make sure to subscribe on iTunes
or Google. Play to never miss an episode because who knows just one conversion tactic
we share on the show might double your list and double your business. Download the
transcript of today’s episode and all future episodes at and
don’t forget to claim your complimentary copy of “The Wealthy List Builder’s Survival
Guide” at . This is Igor Kheifets until next time we talk, have a good one.

This is the

Who Is Igor Kheifets

Igor Kheifets is the 3rd highest-earning super-affiliate in the internet marketing niche.

Igor’s 2-step system has helped him consistently rank as the highest-earning and the highest-converting (measured in commissions earned per click) for industry’s leading vendors including but not limited to Matt Bacak, John Crestani and Anthony Morrison.

Igor boiled down success in affiliate marketing to a set of predictable easy steps anyone can take to generate commissions.


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