Golden Rule Of eMail Marketing

What’s the perfect content-pitch ratio?

Frank Kern once said it’s 80% content and 20% pitch.

I used to stick to this ratio until I realized I wasn’t making any money. All this “value” I was giving away for free conditioned my list to take take take but not buy.

So I switched to a new model.

One which doesn’t require me to give anything while generating tons of good will with my list and getting lavish pay.


Find out in today’s episode of the List Building Lifestyle.


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Hi, my name is Igor Kheifets and this is the List Building Lifestyle, the only podcast
which delivers cutting edge conversion strategies from the online trenches straight to
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once again it’s time to claim your List Building Lifestyle.

Jonathan: Alright, so Igor, the other day I put out a question to my list because,
because I email, as you say I should, and I was asking people why they listen to the
shows at the Podcast Factory, and I got this response that I didn't share with you,
but I'm going to read it to you now. "I listen to Igor's stuff because I too started
out with 100% wrong mindset, and listening to you and Igor talk helps me understand
myself, and also perhaps where my mindset is still wrong. Igor is also amazingly open
about his crazy past, which is very entertaining. By the way, I like the episodes where
you and Igor talk the best." How about that?

Igor: Wow. Well thank you. I didn't realize my past was actually interesting to anyone. I
always considered myself to be pretty boring, but I am appreciative of the fact that there
is value there for of the List Builders. Now, as far as the mindset is concern, this guy got
it right. I didn't catch the name, but the dude has it absolutely right because the mindset
dictates the action. The actions create habits, and habits, as we've mentioned many
times before on the show, they dictate the results.

Jonathan: And gentleman's name is Bob Hiller, and it wasn't in a review on iTunes, it was
actually him responding to my email, so thanks for that Bob.

Igor: Thanks Bob.

Jonathan: So what do you have for us today, Igor?

Igor: Well today we're talk about new email marketing, because at the end of the day
this is a list building podcast and we have to do at least one episode of twenty about email. Right?

Jonathan: [laughter]

Igor: It's always about Igor in this crazy past. So anyway, you know Jonathan how a
lot people, they struggle to sell themselves on the idea that they're supposed to mail
every day?

Jonathan: Yeah.

Igor: Well I found a way for anyone who still struggles with this idea to actually finally get
okay with it, get in sync and get with the freaking program.

Jonathan: Impossible. I do not believe you.

Igor: I have the silver bullet, my friend. So here's the thing, though. One of the pickup
artists and one of the greatest pickup artists, Ross Jeffries, who learned to just hypnotize
women into having sex with him, which in and of itself is an issue of ethics. When he
taught his students during his seminars, he always said that the number one rule that
he has about seduction is to always leave them better than you found them. On other
words, don't start of this micro-relationship with a woman to use her for sex, but more
so give her a good time, help her enjoy herself and only do it if she wants to do it and if
she has a good time doing it. In other words, provide value. Leave her better than you
found her. So I realized that I am treating my list the same way. Even though a lot of
people will not consider a pitch in every email to be "A good thing" and somehow
improving their life, which it actually is, just the mere infotainment element of the
email marketing game which you, me, Ben, Doberman Dan and everybody else who
basically understands the game uses that is what helps the client leave better off after
reading the email than they were before they read it. Does that make sense?

Jonathan: Yeah absolutely. It's something that Ben's been talking about a lot lately, also.
He said it in a call and it shocked people, but he was like, "I almost want my emails to be
more valuable than the product." He didn't actually mean that it was going to be more
valuable than really investing in the product and going through it, but even if you didn't
buy from that email you still got value out of it.

Igor: Yeah, exactly. So the mere act of consumption of the email is what allows the
person to do the head nod kind of nodding with approval. You know what I mean like
either because of its entertainment value, either because of its shock value, either
because of its philosophical value, whatever that might be, when they read it and they
walk away even without picking out the product, I still wanted them to have enjoyed
the process because when you when you write an email, this is like an unspoken
agreement between you and the reader. When they get on reading it, they expect
something from you. As long as you give them that something, you're good. You can
pitch every single time and still generate tons and tons of good will, have a very low
unsubscribe rates, although you should celebrate unsubscribe, if you get a lot of them,
means you're doing something right, means that you're alienating people and repelling
people, which of course means that you're attracting them, other type of people as well.
It really allows you to reframe the email game. As not this slick and sleaze ball way you
sell, a sleazy way to get people to your website, but more so a valuable communication
channel. Because let's face it Jonathan, most people treat email as if they're interrupting
their readers day like as if the mere act of sending an email is such a horrible thing that
it's similar to a murder in its shock value. I've seen people actually get angry about
getting an email from somebody. For some reason they're getting really upset. I don't
understand that, it's just an email. You can choose not to read it; you can choose to
throw it away. You can mark it a spam. As a reader you have all the control, and now
because of this attitude by some people, tendency, remember we just released an
episode about tendency not being the destiny, because the tendency for some
readers, most email marketers kind of take that as a rule of thumb and they are
afraid to email their lists because they feel they are that distraction. They are those
pests in the inbox, which I feel is the absolutely wrong way to feel about email,
because if you do you'll never make any sales.

Jonathan: You got a low self-esteem is what it sounds like.

Igor: Oh, yeah, exactly.

Jonathan: You don't believe in your offer.

Igor: Yeah, and you don't have anything valuable to say in the first place, so maybe it's
time to enrich your inner game, to enrich your experience by going out there and
making a few mistakes before getting started with this whole thing.

Jonathan: Little reality check for you guys and girls out there. How long have you been
emailing every day? Since the beginning?

Igor: No. Actually, starting out, I was pretty much the same way as everyone else is.
I've had my list and get a response, had about a thousand people on it. I dropped an
email once a week or something like that if I was really, really, really courageous that
week. For the most part I tried to send out content not to alienate them or piss them
off. I didn’t pitch anything, and the funny part is that I'm not sure why I was afraid,
because no one opened the emails in the first place. [laughter]

Jonathan: [laughter] You should have been pitching your ass off.

Igor: Yeah. I mean they didn't pay attention anyway, so it didn't matter. So eventually I
restarted on Aweber and I got the bit more aggressive. I started mailing couple times a
week. I would send the content email and then a pitch email, and then a content email,
pitch email. Because Frank Kern said, "Give value, have a ratio." I think he said send
80% content, 20% pitch. Now it might have worked for Frank, didn't work for me
though. The only thing that ever worked for me was infotainment, and at the time a
while I didn't even understand what that was, so sometimes I would accidentally hit it,
and it worked and it gave me a hope to try again, but then it didn't work again. I
remember there were two specific emails that really worked well, which I now realize are
infotaining. So at the time, I was pretty click bank products and this one product called
Deadbeat Millionaire I think it was called, Deadbeat Millionaire by Dan Brock. I
remember writing an email complaining about my back pain and how because I had to
invest 14 to 16 hour days into my business to figure things out, I developed to this lower
back pain issue and that in order to avoid that, I was if I were to start all over again
probably take a shortcut. So I believe that shortcut is this course by Dan Brock, which is
really, really good. I picked it up myself, and I reviewed it so I really liked it. Now,
incidentally that's infotainment, because you tell a personal story, a personal lesson and
then you tie that into a pitch. So no wonder I made 16 sales of that product with that one
email to a list of 2700 people, which weren't even buyers.

Jonathan: Wow. That one must have been a great experience.

Igor: Yeah. It was just exhilarating. That was the very first time I finally believed that I
was on the right track. Now obviously, about two months of failures followed that email.

Jonathan: [laughter]

Igor: My faith was tested man, my faith was tested. So anyway the next email I hit
was when I was promoting a coupon program. It was basically a click bank product, a
software which allowed you to create coupon codes so when you wanted to promote
affiliate programs, you could give your audience a coupon, and by doing so either get
them a bonus or a discount or something like that. So I mailed about that and the way
tied it in was, I spoke about Soviet Union because my parents growing up, they spoke
a lot about coupons. Because you were handed, it's not like food stamps or anything
like that, but you've had coupons for almost everything; clothes, exquisite type of
food, trips to different places throughout the Soviet Union. So the country gave you
stuff. That's the socialism. That's what it's all about or where the government takes
care of you, which it's an illusion anyway. Soviet people knew what that is. Soviet
people were used to receive coupons and different handouts from the government.
So I tied it into the Soviet existence, that right now there's software out there that
follows the Soviet secret to marketing success. Because no one wrote emails about
the Soviet Union, my email actually produced and I think I made like seven or ten
sales with that email. Now the list was a bit bigger at the time, I think it was like
3800 people, or something. I don't quite remember exactly, but around that mark.
So I made fewer sales, but that was infotainment again. It's funny because I didn't
even realize that the time but it worked all along. [laughter] It just took me a while
to figure this out on my own, and then have Ben kind of reaffirm that for me.

Jonathan: No kidding. I need to get down some more infotainment.

Igor: Yeah. To try to seek your heritage. You'll find a lot of infotainment.

Jonathan: [laughter]

Igor: I mean I kid you not. I wrote a bunch of you infotaining emails about being Jewish.
Like we have this Judgment Day thing, which I'm sure you've heard of. It's called
Yom Kippur.

Jonathan: Yeah.

Igor: Where we don't eat. We're not supposed to eat. I actually eat because I'm not
religious, but you're not supposed to eat, you're not supposed to use electricity. You're
not supposed to wear leather and you're supposed to ask for forgiveness from anyone
who you've hurt throughout the year. So I use that almost every single year since I've
been in marketing. I basically email my list with a video or I asked them for forgiveness
if I hurt their feelings, and tie it in into a special offer.

Jonathan: Nice.

Igor: It's like the simplest, most straightforward infotaining a thing you can do.
I remember Ben released a report which spoke about so he was there when
this guy who developed a calendar. You see that one? He had a calendar which
told you which day of the year it is. So you can tie it into different holidays like
it's National Pajamas Day and the National Banana Day.

Jonathan: Yeah.

Igor: It's very easy way to infotaining emails if you just tied into holidays and different
weirdnesses around the world.

Jonathan: No kidding. Yeah, I got to look back at that. I'm so guilty of not even looking at
the calendar. Like today, we're recording on a Monday, and I will just write all seven
emails and not look at the calendar. I just think, "Alright, here's what I'm promoting
this week.", and that's that. But it has definitely good to hook into what people are
already thinking about. Like for instance right now I'm recording this, is perfect time
to be talking about Pokemon because it's gone crazy. I should really do that more in
my emails, and I think it'll get better engagement.

Igor: As you say that, I'm like, "Why am I not talking about Pokemon?"

Jonathan: [laughter]

Igor: Because I talk about that with all my friends right now. Dennis is a big fan, we got a
lot of mutual friend, his name is Leor who has downloaded the app and he's like, we
were watching the European Football Championship, and he was playing Pokemon,
walking around Dennis' apartment, looking for Pikachus. This is ridiculous.

Jonathan: [laughter] Oh man. There are some emails right there, aren't they?

Igor: Yeah, this is it. I'm writing something today.

Jonathan: No kidding, man. I mean there's no shortage of stuff to write about when
you're thinking of it that way. It's even like that whole Seinfeld idea, an email about
nothing. It could just be about your day. I've done that all the time. The lady at the
paint store pissed me off and here's why she pissed me off and here's why you should
be like that, and here's an offer kind of thing. But I don't know if that's entertaining or
me ranting, but it's kind of the way I use it.

Igor: I think it's the same thing. I enjoy rants because that's when people get real,
rather than send me mush cookie emails that say, "Buy my shit, buy my shit, buy my
shit." or, "Oh, I'm such a cool dude I want to give you value. I really care for you. Let
me give you a shit ton of value so you can see how much I care for you. Let me hug you."

Jonathan: And pickpocket you at the same time. [laughter]

Igor: Yeah, it's like come on. Who falls for that crap? You don't even know my name. I
got a new list anonymously. I used Mickey Mouse as my first and last name. Why would
you even want to help me if I'm disrespecting you like that? You know?

Jonathan: Right.

Igor: That’s the way people think about email sometimes and that's the curse of
knowledge. I mean for guys like you and me, because we went through, we've
tested these approaches, we worked with guys like Ben, we know this, and we
kind of assume other people should too, I guess.

Jonathan: The part that helps me the most, and Ben talks about all the time, I think you
may have mentioned it too is, is just a therapy of getting stuff off your chest. That's why
the paint lady email, like any time anything goes annoying in my life or I have an
observation, I'm like, "I got to write an email about that." Just get it off my chest and out
into the wild and see how it does, but it's made my life a whole lot easier. I think I might
be just slightly less aggressive than I used to be, because I have the email outlet.

Igor: Aweber. We make diaries obsolete. [laughter]

Jonathan: [laughter] Nice. New pitch. They should be sponsoring this show, right?

Igor: No, they shouldn't.

Jonathan: Uh-oh.

Igor: They should not. I hate those guys. You know what? I'll be honest. The Josh guy, he
banned my account with gazillion leads in it. The account was 8 years old. I don't like
Josh and I don't like Aweber because he's a representative of Josh. I'm sorry, the Josh a
representative of Aweber. I called him up, and I spoke to them and I've been honest and
real with them, and they did not give me a good reason why they banned me. Besides
the fact that I'm in the make my own like space. That's all. That's what their whole
thing. There was whole case. "We don't want you because you're high risk, so fuck
you. We don't care if you pay us almost a thousand bucks every single month, we
don't care if you've been a customer for 8 years, we're going to throw you away like
that." So I hate Aweber, and even though they are better than Get Response delivery
wise, I still hate them. So there you go. This is a rant.

Jonathan: [laughter]

Igor: Rant right there. [laughter]

Jonathan: [laughter] I didn't expect that, but let's be real here you still. You still use
Aweber, don't you? [laughter]

Igor: Nope.

Jonathan: You don't use them anymore?

Igor: No. I don't need Aweber. I don't them. Besides, they banned me. How am I
supposed to use it? I’m not going to go and play shenanigans, and start an accounts
in India or whatever. I don't have time for that. I moved away. There's actually
solutions better than Aweber out there if you're willing to look, which incidentally
I'm not going to reveal on the show, because I don't want everyone flocking to those
solutions, but I guess my point is that Aweber is not a be all and all solution. If they
think that they control the marketplace, and if you even for a second believe that
there is one service or one thing that is the be all end all, like you feel threatened if
that is being taken away from you, you're at a disadvantage. In a huge disadvantage,
because they'll play you and you won't be able to do anything about it and that's not
a position that I like to find myself at any point in my life.

Jonathan: Now, right when we are done recording this, I'm going to find out what those
other services are. [laughter]

Igor: [laughter]

Jonathan: Sorry, List Builders. [laughter] For my ears only. So Igor, as we are wrapping
up, what do you have coming up for as next time?

Igor: Next time, I'm interviewing a guy from straight from Hollywood. A guy was an
actual a screenwriter, writer and a consultant to writers, as well as a consultant to
Will Smith's company. You know Will Smith, the famous actor?

Jonathan: Yeah.

Igor: So he's the guy who worked with Andrew Chaperone on a storytelling skills, he
worked with Russell Bronson and Daegan Smith, and now I working with him as well
to improve my storytelling, and he was kind enough to sit down with me for 40
minutes and share his six step system to structuring an ideal success journey.
So if you ever heard those sobby stories where the guy says, "Oh I was bankrupt,
then I found the system and it made me rich and yada yada yada." Which are
cheesy and aren't really told in a good way? So, next episode is going to teach you
how to tell your story of success or success of your clients in an ethical factual and
impactful way.

Jonathan: Wow, now that's a good twist there. I'm looking forward to that. So that's a
wrap for another episode of List Building Lifestyle. We'll be back with you next time.
Thank you for tuning in.

Thanks for listening to The List Building Lifestyle Show, make sure to subscribe on iTunes
or Google. Play to never miss an episode because who knows just one conversion tactic
we share on the show might double your list and double your business. Download the
transcript of today’s episode and all future episodes at and
don’t forget to claim your complimentary copy of “The Wealthy List Builder’s Survival
Guide” at . This is Igor Kheifets until next time we talk, have a good one.

This is the

Who Is Igor Kheifets

Igor Kheifets is the 3rd highest-earning super-affiliate in the internet marketing niche.

Igor’s 2-step system has helped him consistently rank as the highest-earning and the highest-converting (measured in commissions earned per click) for industry’s leading vendors including but not limited to Matt Bacak, John Crestani and Anthony Morrison.

Igor boiled down success in affiliate marketing to a set of predictable easy steps anyone can take to generate commissions.


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