Repulsion Marketing Secrets With Ben Settle

According to Ben Settle, world’s leading authority on email marketing and a personal friend of mine:

“The best thing you could do is to stop trying to sell your product. Don’t convince people to buy from you. Instead give them an opportunity to join you and your clients on your adventure. In fact, you could even try to get rid of them. The ones who stick – those are your best customers.”




Yeah, those are the three words that perfectly describe Ben’s wicked email ways.

But you know what?

His methods work and I don’t argue.

Neither should you.

Instead, you should take in every word from today’s episode of the List Building Lifestyle and do as he sayeth to raketh more moolah with your emails.


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Hi, my name is Igor Kheifets and this is the List Building Lifestyle, the only podcast which
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Igor: Welcome back to another episode of The List Building Lifestyle, with your host

Igor Kheifets. Today, I'm hosting the true anti-preneur, my go to source for
advice with email marketing and women, Mr. Ben Settle. Ben, how you doing,

Ben: Igor, I am doing really good. How are you doing? Well, it’s morning for you,
night for me, but how you doing?

Igor: Yeah, it's so early, man. It's early. It’s so early and I'm actually not able to do the
school run, to the preschool run for my daughter because I'm interviewing you, so
my wife is extremely upset with you right now.

Ben: Well, you know what, Igor? Unfortunately that's just how it's going to be.

Igor: [laughter] Yeah, I know the dynamic, familiar with the dynamic. You just piss
women off, that's what you do and that's why we love you man, that's why love
you. I mean you are the leading authority, as far as I know on emails. I mean not
to sort of like downplay other email folks that I interviewed on the show, but
honestly it's like it's your style and your methodology that really, really clicked
for me at some point. I've been just a fanboy of yours ever since. So I'm just
really excited to be hosting you of the show.

Ben: I always have a good time talking to you and it's been way too long. It's been like
a year and a half since we spoke last, I think, so.

Igor: Yeah, but I get the newsletter. By the way guys, if you're not subscribing to Ben's
newsletter, you should definitely get on that, okay? It's called Email Players and
you can get the first free issue if you go to, and you should be
going there right now and getting, honestly. The free issue alone, I mean, it can
just double your email open rates just like that. So, Ben, let me start and ask you
what's the most common mistake you see email marketers make right now?

Ben: Okay, so there's two. One is, see guys like you and me, it's pretty obvious, but
people need to hear apparently. You and I wonder why we have to say this
constantly, and that is not emailing often enough. People just email once a week,
or once a month or when they have something to say, or even worse, like the
worst of all, they only email when they have something to sell. Like a launch or
something. It's almost like they treat their list like a booty call. [laughter]

Igor: [laughter]

Ben: I don't know, I'm not saying people can't make money doing that, but you're going
to build a very solid business in most cases. I'm an advocate of mailing every day
at minimum once a day, and even more is better if you can. If you have the
motivation and ambition to do it, as are you doing it the right way. If you're
playing to win, and not playing to not lose, you should see your sales go up and
your opt outs will go up. That's why you go to Igor and you keep building your
list. That's the game.

Igor: I was doing a call with Perry Marshall for the show, and he says, "List building is
not a process of the people like you get or something like that, it's people repel."
So you kind of focus on the people you don't want and just get rid of them as
much as you can. So the opt out is going up, I think it's the perfectly natural
thing. I think it's just a good thing, because that means you got so many people
on the list sticking and reading and consuming your stuff.

Ben: Yeah, I'm a big fan of what some people call repulsion marketing. You have
attraction marketing, which is like the MLM world does that. That's their thing.
attraction marketing, how to attract the prospects. That's fine, there's nothing
wrong with that. It's a valid way of doing it, but I think repulsing, like Perry
saying, repulsing away the people you don't want is going to get rid of all the
people that should not be on your list in the first place, causing you trouble.
Causing themselves trouble, and further strength and the bond you have with the
people you do want. It's very contrarian point of view, but it works. By the way,
so I wanted to say there's a second thing. I teased you a little bit before I called,
so I would love to get your take on this. Whether you agree with me or not, I'm
just I'm very interested in this.

Igor: Alright.

Ben: Especially from a list building guy. You know I mean? You're a list building guy.

Igor: Yes sir, I am.

Ben: Solo ads is one way to do it of many ways to do it, but it's a good way. So
anyway. Recently, I don't know if you've been following this drama my email list
or not, but recently I said something, in fact it was Saturday. Now today is
Monday and we're recording, so this is Saturday, a couple days ago. I sent an e-
mail out, and I just said, "The only purpose of a website is to build a list." Like it
at the end of the day, if you break it all down, all the reasons people have for
having a website, all roads lead to building a list. So there's a there's a A- list
copywriter who I have tremendous respect for, I want to say that right off the bat.
I have nothing but respect for this guy. He and I disagree on a lot of stuff, and we
have e-mail banter back and forth a lot. His name is Bob Bly. Bob Bly is one of
the great copywriters of our day. There's no question about it. I love studying his
stuff, his books are amazing. He's doesn't just write marketing books, he writes
novels and other things too. Anyway, he went on to his Facebook and posted
what I said, and he said, "I usually agree with Ben, but I disagree with this. What
do you think?" All these like fluff-prenuers came out of the woodwork.

Igor: Fluff-prenuers. [laughter]

Ben: "It's not about the building the list, it's about branding, and all this other stuff." In
fact, this thread is still going on right now and I've actually made money from this
thread by sending emails off to my list about this, "Here's what these people are
saying. Here's why they're wrong." That's one way you can make money with
email. Anyway, my point is this. All that stuff that people think they have a
website for, whether it be to demonstrate their knowledge or to build trust and
credibility and all that stuff, if you break that all down, why are they doing that?
Why are they building a brand? Why are they trying to get trust? Why are they
having testimonials and videos and content? Why are they doing all that? It's to
get people to either sign up for a list, or to buy something, which puts them on a
buyer's list. So at the end of the day, all rows no matter what how fluffy
somebody is, if they're in direct response marketing, and that's what I'm talking
about here, not like major Fortune 1000 companies and stuff, but in direct
response marketing, like us. Like you and me Igor, guys like us, guys who do this
in the real world. It's to build the list. I think this is a big mistake people make. I
know it's not really an email thing technically, but if they get this right, no matter
who's listen to this, if you're doing direct response marketing and you have a
website, the whole purpose of that website, like every action somebody take
should be geared toward getting them on a list in some way, shape or form. So
for example, I'll give you my own website as an example. I have like a contact
page, and I have a can FAQ page and, I have like a media page where I put like
recorded interviews I've done on the radio and stuff. All that stuff is there to get
people to trust me and know me and like me and all that, so that they'll feel
comfortable joining my list. Like all that stuff is there for a purpose, is to get
them on a list. I haven't even set up, man, like they can't even click the link to
buy Email Players, they have to opt in first. My friend Jimmy Yaghi, he has this
rigged on my site, they go to from my blog it sends them to the
opt-in page and says, "Hey wait. Make sure you get the free issue first." So they
get on my list. It's all about getting them on a list. You can have people say,
"Well, I make a transaction up front. I don't do opt ins.", and that's fine too.
Because why are you selling them that first part, but to get them on a list. So
anyway, I think that's a big mistake people are making. I know there's a lot of
people on Facebook who disagree with me about this, but you know Igor, it is not
against the law in any country I know for them to be wrong, and so it's all good.

Igor: Well first of, I do agree with you and the issues I deal with them daily basis is,
folks approaching me to run ads. Okay? To run paid traffic to something like a
company homepage that has no opt in form, no direct response copy or any sort of
like call-to action, just a page with a lifestyle video on it, and it's like, "Oh, read
about our company, read of our compensation plan." There's nothing going on
there. There's no salesmanship. So, yeah, I agree with you. People do build
websites, or buy websites for all the wrong reasons. I personally believe that a
website is nothing but a lead generation ad.

Ben: Yeah!

Igor: So in other words, you draw, the traffic to it, sure, but the purpose of that site is to
get the hottest prospect on some sort of communication which for the most part
for me, that's my list.

Ben: Yeah. Yeah, a list, especially somebody buying. I'm guessing that most of these
people on Facebook I'm talking about, don't buy the traffic, so they don't really
have the value. Like for someone who pays you a couple thousand dollars or how
even much you charge for solo ads, you're going to try to get every single one of
those people on a list. You don't want to lose any of them. You know what I
mean? Like you paid for it.

Igor: You got to maximize that, of course. I mean the cost per lead is one of the
primary things you track when you buy advertising whether it's solo ads, or
Facebook ads, or whatever. Naturally, if you're not, you're just wasting money, I
mean who would want to just throw money at a wall like that.

Ben: I don't know, but these people on the Facebook... [laughter] It's weird because I
just can't understand that mindset how somebody would not realize that the
purpose of direct response marketing is to build lists. Before the internet, so I
think the Internet is kind of like, social media especially, is what screwing people
up. They think it's different. It's no different than running an ad on the radio.
The whole purpose of those ads, the direct response ones, is to get you to buy
something, or get a free report or something, to get you on a list. The internet's no
different. People are buying these leads. They're just wasting money. I know the
site exactly an email thing, but it works hand in hand with that. So you get them,
do whatever you can to get them on your list and then mail them every day, and
that's a recipe for success.

Igor: I agree with you wholeheartedly. So let's circle back to, you mentioned repulsion
marketing, right. What is it, how do you do that in the why is it so effective?

Ben: Well, okay. So I think a good example of this, and I know that you're not in
America, but I'm sure you see a lot of our media and all that, right?

Igor: Yeah, absolutely.

Ben: So we have an election going on, in case anyone doesn't know. [laughter] We
got some people like, oh I don't know, Donald Trump for example. He's the
perfect example of this. This guy is not an attraction marketer. He's the best
repulsion marketer I've ever seen. I'm reading one of his books right now, and I'm
seeing exactly what he's doing. So if you know Donald Trump is, and you're
watching him and whether you like him, it doesn't matter if you like him or agree
with them, or you agree with what he stands for, none of that matters. In fact, just
to show that I'm not going to single him out, if you know who Bill Clinton is, he
was perfect at this too. He was a great repulsion marketer. These people are very
polarizing. You're either with them or you're against them. You either love them
or you hate them. There's very little indifference there. By being in repulsion
marketer, by really standing for something and standing against something, even
more than you stand for something in some cases, you're going to repulse people
away. So there's so many analogies I can use for this, but I do one of my favorites
is actually from the Bible, believe it or not.

Igor: Oh, I believe it Ben. I believe it.

Ben: There's this part in the book Revelation, chapter 3, there's the seven churches and
five of them are screwing up, and two of them Jesus is happy with. But one of the
ones that's screwing up, it's like you're doing everything right, you're feeding the
poor and all this stuff. I'm paraphrasing here. But you're lukewarm. I'd rather
you be hot or cold, than lukewarm. You're lukewarm, I'm going to spew you out
because you're lukewarm. I think that is the perfect, perfect attitude to have
toward marketing. You don't want anybody indifferent to, or lukewarm. You
want, either want them with you or against you. If you polarize enough by, for
example, I wrote emails about what I was telling you about, what I believe the
purpose of a website is for. There's a lot of people who disagree with that, and I
not catering to them in any way, I'm stating my point. I'm saying, "Here is why I
am right, and you guys are wrong." People who I'm saying are wrong, and I'm
backing up what I'm saying, I'm trying to repulse them the away. I'm trying to
turn them hot or cold. Chances are I'll turn them cold and they'll leave, but a few
of them will become hot and say, "Shoot. I think Ben's on to something here. I
need to hear more about what he has to say” and those who become very good
customers and long term buyers. Because not everybody is going to buy from
you, in fact most people aren't, so it's better to get rid of the people you don't want
so that you have plenty of room and attention and time for the people you do

Igor: Oh yeah, oh yeah. I used to sell coaching a lot and I did talk a lot about having
soul coaching in the past for some reason the show, and not realizing that, but
there's always lessons I come back to, and one of the ways this comes to play for
me, is in a sales conversation. So when I sit down front of a prospect and I was
basically interviewing them and then selling them a very expensive coaching
package, I always asked for either a yes or a no. In other words, I never allowed
them to give me a maybe. So they can just say, "You know, I'll think about it."
Or, "I'll go talk to my wife about it, let me meditate on and it." These sorts of
answers, I would say something like, "Look, if it's not a good fit, I understand.
But there is no maybe here. It's just a yes or a no. A very clear yes or no
answer." So you're hot or cold, or with me or against me, or whatever, but there's
not going to be a situation where I'm sitting here waiting for you to show up with
a decision for another two months or something like that which happened. I mean
people actually tried to do stuff like that.

Ben: Well, that brings up a good point here. It sounds to me like what you were doing,
this is what I did too when it comes to selling in any format, whether it's I'm
negotiating something in person, or if I'm doing it through an email, selling in an
email or in a sales letter. I never asked people to buy. I give them the opportunity
to buy. You can either come along for the ride with the rest of us who are doing
well, and whatever the problem or solving, whether it be business stuff or golf. I
sell the golf niche, whatever. You're given the opportunity to become a part of
what we're doing. I'm not begging someone. I don't care; in fact I'm almost
trying to get rid of him. I just don't want a pain in the butt customer. I really
don't who's wishy-washy. I want someone who's, "Yes, I'm in and I'm
committing to this." Whatever it is I'm selling, or, "No, this isn't for me. I'm not
ready right now." That's fine. They can go off and maybe one day they'll want to
do this, and maybe they won't, but I'm not begging them to do anything. I'm fact I
may not even let them buy, that's the attitude I have. I don't say those words, but
it's like the attitude I have in the copy. That's very repulsive to some people, and
that's good. Those are the people I don't want. But the people who are ready, and
they're ready to make a decision to buy whatever it is I'm selling, I want them.
You know, those are the ones I'm actually bringing in, those are the ones left over
after repulsed everyone else away.

Igor: I used the same thing when I would get in the call with someone. The first thing I
would do is, I would question them. I would literally have them tell me why
should I work with them. That alone set the stage for the whole conversation to
be all about me qualifying them versus me begging them, if you will. I see this a
lot, especially with the folks I work and in the home base business arena. There
are so many beggars out there, so much neediness. So I mean can you talk a little
bit about neediness, because that's a concept I picked up from you. Like how
does that come into play who does it and how does ruin your marketing

Ben: Yeah. In some ways, we're touching upon the single most important thing
somebody can learn. Not just in business, but in life. I can't tell you, I mean I
can't even count, I honestly could even count. I can sit there for hours and try to
figure this up, I couldn't even count, it’s so many how many times neediness has
hurt me in some way in my life; whether it be in relationships or in business, or
whatever, friendships, anything. There's nothing that are will repulse people
away, but not in the good way we're trying to talk about here, but repulsed the
people you do want away more than being needy. In fact, just not being needy
will make you more successful in selling, persuasion marketing and relationships
with the opposite sex, whatever it might be. Getting rid of neediness is the war
and then almost everybody fights it. I've had to like really train myself, and
especially since I got divorced and everything several years ago. I really had to
train myself to not be needy. It's something that did not come naturally to me. I
was actually a very needy person for much of my life. Now I've gotten to the
point where I forgot what it's like even, like I have to try to be needy to be needy.
It drives my girlfriend nuts. She actually wants me to be a little needy, but I can't.
Like it's so driven out of my mind now, and this carries over into every part of
your life, especially business. If a client or a customer senses neediness out of
you, like you need them, they're not going to want anything to do with you. In
fact, we tend to want to get away from needy people. It's the law of the jungle,
right? We pursue that which flees from us. We flee that which pursues us. If
you're needy and you pursue, pursue, pursue, their natural reaction is to run the
other way. I'll give you an example. So I have a dog that's like part Basenji.
Now Basenji is like an Egyptian or I think some kind of African or Egyptian dog
or something like that. They are hunting dogs. When I got this dog they told me
very specifically at the kennel, the dog shelter told me very specifically, "Look,
these dogs like to chase. Alright? So if she gets away from you, if this dog ever
runs away from you, you need to run the opposite way so she'll chase you." That
is like to me the perfect metaphor for business. You want almost be ready. You
want your customers like, your time up your clients chasing you. If somebody
wants a more like a real example of this, we will take this to the dating world,
Igor, because I know you like to talk about the stuff.

Igor: Oh I love it, man.

Ben: Okay, and this carries over to business, too, but this is more of like a man and girl
thing. So let's say you have a guy who's like the perfect height, perfect build, he
is in perfect shape, perfect teeth, full head of hair, successful job makes six
figures a year as a lawyer, high value job, high value guy in every way. Like this
is the kind of guy that all the girls say they want, tall, dark, handsome and
successful and all that. Witty, charming, all that stuff. He's just like the perfect
guy on paper. Suddenly he starts becoming very needy and clingy, and needy and
always there, just you know just following the girl around all the time like a lost
puppy. Always afraid she's texting another guy, always needing to check her
phone or Facebook just becomes real needy. That otherwise successful guy will
become now very unattractive to her even though he's physically attractive to her.
He's completely unattractive in every other way and will be repulsive to her. It's
kind of like you know girls, a lot of girls like their shoes, like to buy a like a
hundred pairs of shoes. [laughter] At least my girl does. They have a closet full
of shoes, of the best shoes in the world like the most expensive, I don't know all
the brands, but like the most expensive high end shoes that are in her closet. Then
you go in there and you smear bunch of catfish bate around the room, so it smells
so bad you can't even enter the room. That's what neediness is, it's like catfish
bait. It's just no matter how attractive you, whether be in business or relationships
or whatever else, if you needy, you're going to be an intolerable to other people,
so you need to get rid of that neediness.

Igor: Here's the thing about neediness, the other person can’t really explain why they
hate you. So you might be a great guy or gal, you might be a very nice person,
you might be saying all right things and you're in your spiel, whatever like, you'd
be like a very, very good human being, but you'd still repel people with your
neediness. You're absolutely right, Ben. This dating world knowledge you
transfer is to marketing so well, because that's what I see every day. That's what I
see every day, people who are so, so desperate. They put their ideal prospect on a
pedestal to a point where they can't sell anything. You can't really command
authority on somebody who's actually above you on that pedestal like it's
impossible. They have to be there slightly beneath you, or maybe the same eye
level, but not when they're on a pedestal.

Ben: Yeah. If somebody is on a pedestal, they can only look down on you. In real life,
if you put somebody on a chair above, they're looking down on you. That carries
over mentally and emotionally in every other way. If you put them on a pedestal,
they will, eventually they have to look down. This is why so many guys are like,
I don't know how it is in Israel, but in America, guys, it's not looking good for
guys. So many guys are so needy and girls will tell you. A guy who's not needy,
and maybe is not even physically attractive, but he's confident, they are drawn to
guys like that. In business, with their clients or customers, you may not be
perfect; you may have the ugliest, like the worst website. You may not be able to
write very well when you're trying to write emails, and it won't matter if you have
just the confidence in yourself, that you have something worth sharing and you
have something worth buying. I'll tell you what, Igor, you know what helps get
rid of neediness in business, and this is something that took me many years to
figure out. It carries over to the dating world, too, but just in the business sense.
Once you do the numbers and you realize the math is on your side, and by that I
mean that's. Like you're the solo ad guy so you have knowledge and experience
about building a list that the vast majority of people online don't have, right?

Igor: True.

Ben: That means there is less supply of you than there are people who need what you
have. When you realize that, you're actually way more valuable. Like your
values, like in your own mind shoots up and this applies anything. No matter
what you're selling, if you have something that's going to improve someone's life,
and you have it, you can sell it to them, once you realize that there's less supply of
you to supply that whatever it is, to the mass of people, who you don't need
everybody to run a very successful business. You only need like a very small
fractional percentage of buyers in the world and you can be a millionaire. Once
you realize that math is on your side, it really helps like put things in context.
You don't need them; you don't need any one customer or client. You need
customers and clients, but not any one customer and client. If someone doesn't
want to do things the way you do things, they don't have to buy, and that's fine
this is plenty of people who will. I hope, like anyone listening, I hope that helps
them if they're fighting this neediness thing. I hope that helps, because it helped
me quite a bit to figure that out.

Igor: Well you know what we do at Solo Ad, sometimes we would actually refund
people and say, "We don't want to work with you." Even if they didn't really do
much to deserve it, like they would do something but it's forgivable, another
words, we can close our eyes on that and just let it slide, but sometimes if we
haven't fired anyone in the while, I tell Dennis, "Hey this person, fire them,
please." He'd be like, "No, but that's fine. Sale, la-la- la." I'm like, "Well, I don't
care." We don't need them, they need us, and they misbehaved, so they will b
punished because you have only so many hours in the day and you need to invest
this time with clients that behave. You know what I mean?

Ben: Oh, yeah, man. That's really good. I do the exact same thing. Sometimes I think
it's good for the soul to like fire a customer or a client. Even if it's kind of a
frivolous reason, I wouldn't recommend doing this just anyone but someone who
just annoys you, maybe just don't like them. Like you'll sleep better knowing
they're not in your business. Just fire them. Yeah. By the way, this works in the
dating world, too. I'm not saying people should like just dump their girlfriend or
anything, but you know, sometimes you just got to tell people 'No'. "This isn't
going to happen, this isn't going to work and go find someone else." And you'd be
surprised that people will change if they realize your value, they will change their
minds and behave differently, and things will be fine. It works in the business
world, too. I've had customers who misbehaved, as you would say, who I fired as
customers, I unsubscribed them from Email Players, whatever, and they would
come back a couple years later saying, "Look man, I know I screwed up. Okay?
I'm not like that anymore, I realize what I did. Will you give me another chance?"
Yeah, absolutely. Because they learned, and they've grown, and they're better
people and better customer, and I can better help them. That's not the norm, but I
mean, just what I'm saying is, sometimes by doing that you will actually make
people better people and they'll come back as better customers.

Igor: Yeah. I had one customer who we fired, and who insists that we would take his
money so he started PayPaling us money. So we would refund and he would
PayPal it again, would refund it, he would PayPal it again.

Ben: [laughter]

Igor: Like I actually had to personally reach out to him, get on the phone and say,
"Dude, just stop sending us money. We're not going to give you traffic because
you're really high maintenance. It's impossible to talk to you." You can tell these
customers, right? You see them by the kinds of emails they send you, the
frequency and the amount of the emails, the kind of questions. I tend to do worse
with desperate clients like that. These are the needy people. These are the people
that kind of go berserk if something goes wrong, these are the people that love to
play the blame game, and so I'm like, "Look, I can choose whether to invest my
time with this person or have someone else pay me just as much, because they
order the same traffic, so they pay me just as much, but they're low maintenance.
Why would they then make my life harder? Why not keep it simple?"

Ben: You know, there's this girls I know who I almost dated this girl, I kind of like I
kind of dodged a bullet I guess on this one, because the guy she ended up dating,
because I just never really pursued her enough to date or anything, but I was
going to, but I didn't. My current girlfriend, she knows the girl and everything,
she goes, "That girl, the guy she was dating, just constantly, 'Who are you
texting? What are you doing? Who are you texting? Who are you talking to?' Just
like needy, needy, needy." Like something like that I would have booted right
away. There are plenty of other girls. I do not need that one. That one will
actually make you more on unattractive to other girls. Because they're like, "Well
he's only with that girl. He must not be that valuable." Now let's translate this to
business. If you take these needy, crappy customers and clients that you know
that you shouldn't be dealing with, you know that they're going to make your life
worse, they make you look bad. They actually rub off on you. Not just their
attitude and stuff could rub off on you, but it's like reverse social proof. If you
have a really good client who sees you working with this kind of questionable
client, a good client going, "Eh..." You know? "If Igor's working with that guy is
probably not really the person I want to do business with." So it's good, and not
just from like a practical perspective, but a perceptual perspective. Just the
perception other people have of you.

Igor: Yeah, I really wish List Builders, that's how to call my audience, the List
Builders, I really wish for you guys to adopt this philosophy, this paradigm and
start seeing the world in a different light. First off, just like Ben said, there are
plenty of customers to go around for everyone. It's not his zero sum game. The
marketplace is not limited to what you feel is. I mean honestly Ben, did you ever
get this from clients? Like a lot of people believe that if Ben signs up three people
today for Email Players, then Igor cannot get those three players into the VIP
club. Like there's less money left for Igor if Ben makes some money today.

Ben: I would think like our customers would be perfect matches, actually. [laughter] I
think the opposite of that, and yeah, anyone who would think that way, just they
have scarcity mindset. Unfortunately that's most people especially in business.
It's unfortunate for them but fortunate for those of us who aren't like that. It's
weird, it's almost like we cut our own throats by even teaching this stuff, but we're
just, we're trying to make the world a better place. I'd rather be less needy people
in the world than more.

Igor: Yeah, and at the end of the day when you think about it, if everyone makes
money, they world's just a better place just like you said. I grew up in just a
poverty driven society. Lots of violence, lots of hate and I sort of brought this
hate over here to Israel. I actually went to this workshop where people... The part
of the exercise, there was an exercise, 'Being honest', which of course, you know,
I excel that. That's why people think I'm an asshole often.

Ben: [laughter]

Igor: This was different because everyone else would come up to me and say that they
hated me. That they didn't like me, because of the way I looked. Because I have
this, not violent, but I would say aggressive look to me sometimes, like I look at
the world sometimes just like I used to look at the world when I was a kid, which
was this, "Don't come near me." Sort of like primal jungle style. You know what
I mean?

Ben: Yeah.

Igor: Like it was a really dangerous where I grew up. Like people got stabbed for
money and there were contract killers, like all sorts of different stuff. So I
brought this mentality over here. I had to reeducate myself, and so people have
the same thing about money. It comes from the household of course, from the
upbringing and the society we grew up in. Has something to do with political
beliefs and religious beliefs as well, but not as much. My point is that there are
plenty of customers to go around for everyone. I was just checking this, by the
way. I was getting ready to do webinar, which I'm going to be doing tonight.
Back when I started, which I think back in 2008, the amount of Google searches
for 'Make Money Online' was 200,040 something. Now the amount of searches
for 'Make Money Online' today, per month is two million.

Ben: Oh Jesus, that's like ten times.

Igor: Two million! So the marketplace has grown. Yeah, that's right. Huge, huge, huge
increase. So there are more and more people coming in online to learn to make
money online, so if you're in the industry, in the space of teaching people to make
money online anyway, you're getting more customers every day. The
marketplace is growing, not shrinking. But people think that it is. Well, Ben, first
off, thank you for taking the time to do the show, and you know and staying up
late. So where can we get more of Ben?

Ben: If you like what we're talking about here, I'm telling to your listeners, this is pretty
much the kind of we talk about on my podcast, too. We don't just talk, 'How To'
stuff, we get in the philosophy and psychological side of things, and that at Igor was mentioning, when you opt into my list, you get the
first Email Players issue. If you go to, the podcast, we give
the same thing away if you opt in there. So either page is fine. You can get that
issue, but if you go to the podcast, opt in. You'll get other emails from, not from
me every day, but from one of my students who I brought on to do the emails for
that site, and she does a great job, too. So yeah, if you want to learn email and
you want to get good at this, either one of my sites, or will definitely get you started on the right track.

Igor: Alright, List Builders. So just to recap, you want to go ahead and subscribe to
Bent's podcast, the Anti-preneur Show at, pick up the free
issue of Email Players and get in the list, start studying, that sort, take note.
Trying to see through what Ben and his apprentice are doing with their emails. I
also highly recommend to sign up for Ben's newsletter at, but
not until you consume the very first newsletter issue which you get for free if you
just go to, because that's Ben's philosophy. You cannot
actually get on that newsletter until and unless you go through the first issue.
Now I actually respect that a lot and I believe there is something to learn from this
set up. So Ben, as always, thank you so much. You have been great. I've
enjoyed this tremendously; I'll be inviting you to come and rep on the show again.

Ben: I appreciate it, man. We haven't talked in awhile, this has been a lot of fun for
me, too. I appreciate it.

Igor: Alright, thank you.

Thanks for listening to The List Building Lifestyle Show, make sure to subscribe on iTunes
or Google Play to never miss an episode because who knows just one conversion tactic
we share on the show might double your list and double your business. Download the
transcript of today’s episode and all future episodes at and
don’t forget to claim your complimentary copy of “The Wealthy List Builder’s Survival
Guide” at . This is Igor Kheifets until next time
we talk, have a good one.

This is the

Who Is Igor Kheifets

Igor Kheifets is the 3rd highest-earning super-affiliate in the internet marketing niche.

Igor’s 2-step system has helped him consistently rank as the highest-earning and the highest-converting (measured in commissions earned per click) for industry’s leading vendors including but not limited to Matt Bacak, John Crestani and Anthony Morrison.

Igor boiled down success in affiliate marketing to a set of predictable easy steps anyone can take to generate commissions.


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