eXtreme Influence

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Hi, my name is Igor Kheifets and this is the List Building Lifestyle, the only podcast which delivers cutting edge conversion strategies from the online trenches straight to your earbuds. Download the transcript of today’s episode and all future episodes at listbuilidnglifestylesshow.com. I also invite you to grab a free copy of “The Wealthy List Builder’s Survival Guide” at lifebuilidnglifestyleshow.com/survival and now once again it’s time to claim your List Building Lifestyle.

Jonathan: You are listening to List Building Lifestyle with the chief list builder himself, Mr.

Igor Kheifets. What is up my man?

Igor: Hey, and Jonathan. Great to be here as usual and ready for another kick ass episode because today we’re going to talk about some important stuff.

Jonathan: I thought we always talked about important stuff. Have you been holding out on us?

Igor: Oh, man, everything.

Jonathan: [laughter]

Igor: Well not as important as this stuff, because you know what they say, “There’s nothing more important out there than your product.” Gary Vaynerchuk says that if you got a shitty product and great marketing, that isn’t going to help you.

Jonathan: Alright, so what do you have in store for us today, Igor?

Igor: Well, a lot of people come to me and ask me, “Igor, look, I got the no brainer offer. No brainer, because the product I sell is absolutely tremendous and it’s amazing. It saved my life, I lost weight, I made money, I cured cancer.” Whatever. And so to them, to the person selling, they’re really sold on the product. They really believe in the product, and so naturally, they’re really surprised when other people do not buy the product. In fact, they’re sometimes surprised to a point of complete lunacy.

Jonathan: [laughter]

Igor: Where they just refuse to believe that and they say that the prospects must be completely, they’re just not targeted enough, and they don’t have money and they’re broke, and they’re just tire kickers and nonbelievers. And it’s impossible for someone to not want to buy this product, because it’s a complete no brainer.

Jonathan: Heard that before.

Igor: Well, I heard that before, too. In fact, they felt the same way about my product, which is traffic. I’m like, “Why wouldn’t anyone buy traffic that converts?” And so at some point, after studying Dan Kennedy, I realized that people have preconceived notions about my product. Doesn’t matter what I sell, people actually come in with an existing idea. Especially if they have purchased similar products in the past or even investigate into these products. So as an example, one of the preconceived notions I’ve had when I went to do the whole eye surgery thing, right? To get rid of glasses, was, “I am going to go blind.” That was the first one. The second was that I was told, that if I do this it’s actually going to come back like the eye problem will come back sometime later on. So it’s actually no use doing because it won’t last. Now, these are objections, these are beliefs that get in the way of me purchasing, that get in the way of me forking out about $2500 to do this damn surgery, to get a higher quality of life. So just like myself with the eye surgery, every single prospect you ever put your offer in front of comes in with a preexisting set of beliefs that get in the way of them giving you money in exchange for the value your product provides. So if you’re selling an online business opportunities, one such existing belief is, “I’m not good enough with computers, I’m actually bad with computers and they don’t understand the internet, so I can’t really try and make money with internet marketing business opportunity.” Another one might be a low self-esteem. So if the person is by default in their life, right there, they never achieved anything, and you tell them, “Hey, you can become an internet millionaire or the very least make $10,000 per month using this income opportunity.” Guess what they say? “Well I’ve never done anything even remotely close to this, and I never achieve anything in my life, so I’m a failure and probably I am going to be the first one to screw this up.” And there’s like a million other things that go on in their head which get in the way. The funniest one actually is the people who don’t believe they’re lucky enough to make money online.

Jonathan: [laughter]

Igor: There’s actually people that say stuff like, true story man, honest to God. They say something like, “Well I was born under the Leo sign or whatever, and so my horoscope lady says that I am not destined for financial security.”

Jonathan: Oh my gosh, are you serious?

Igor: I kid you not.

Jonathan: [laughter]

Igor: I’ve had conversations like that and this is true, that’s how people think that’s how people are. So that is why you should never be amazed if someone says, no, or completely ignores an offer which might seem like a no brainer to you.

Jonathan: Wow. The astrology thing, I haven’t heard that one before. [laughter]

Igor: Well but that’s true, that’s really true, and that’s not the craziest example either. I don’t have the full list in front of me. I actually used to keep record of this stuff, but I’ve had so many people come up with so many excuses, that at some point I realized one thing: that people if given the opportunity will keep coming up with more and more excuses, instead of taking action because of one underlying major barrier which is always between them and your product. That is basically the belief that this time is going to be different, that this time is going to work for them, because for some reason, again, people walk around God’s green earth with such a low self-esteem, that the first thing they need to be convinced of is not whether or not the product actually works, but whether or not the product can work for someone that’s been in the worse situation than they are right now. So in other words, if you’re applying, Jonathan, for a coaching that teaches you how to pass a math exam and you flunked math in high school then the only way to convince you would be to show you a case study of somebody who not only flunked math in high school, that pretty much dropped out of high school because they were dyslexic and incapable of memorizing things. Somebody who has a monkey brain, somebody who has basically so many challenges in their life all while dealing with just ridiculously impossible to overcome circumstance, that in comparison your life will seem like absolute paradise.

Jonathan: You know the picture I got in my head as you’re saying that is the Ginsu commercial where they’re cutting through a tin can. So like, “When will I ever need to cut through a tin can, but I guess it’ll slice tomatoes and lettuce and everything else I need just fine.”

Igor: Yeah, exactly. So in other words, you have to go through to the extreme to prove to the people you’re selling to that it can and will work for them in spite of all their flaws and insecurities. That is often very difficult to do, because as you know Jonathan, people are really stubborn.

Jonathan: Yeah.

Igor: Which is where of course the whole process of marketing influence comes through, which is when of course you want to use as many case studies as possible. The one thing that I encountered in my coaching experience was when I was selling the coaching, and specifically when I was attracting the right type of individuals. I used to advertise a lot in the Warrior Forum. The one thing that I always bumped up against was I had a lots and lots of male case studies. Like I shared with you, Jonathan, my best clients were always the guys that are providers for a family, and they were just about to have a kid.

Jonathan: Yeah.

Igor: So naturally I had many of these sorts of testimonies from all over the world. Again the commonality was they were all guys. Now, since there were all guys and unfortunately, again, I say unfortunately not because I’m from actually like, I don’t like the idea, but unfortunately for the people that missed out on working with me and as a result probably changing their life in the big way. I mean there were mostly white males, and as a result I’ve had a ton of messages from a bunch of people there were sort of like checking out the offer but never acted on it, both for women and folks who, are you, know Mexican, folks who are African-Americans, folks who were like from Eastern European countries like Moldova, Bulgaria, Czech Republic, Croatia, so I had a bunch of them because for the most part I had American white males. So what does this tell you? This tells you that if given the excuse, your prospects will try to weasel out.

Jonathan: [laughter]

Igor: Okay? They try to find an excuse why this will not work for them, and to prevent that, you want to have case studies of all the different sorts of backgrounds and ethnicities and sexes, right? So you want to have that white Caucasian male from America, you want to have the white Caucasian male from Eastern Europe, you want to have the African-American male, you want to have someone from Africa, you want to have someone from, like you want to have a woman who’s like a young woman, you want to have a woman that’s like 50 years old, you would have one Caucasian pensioner, like somebody who’s like 70 or something. You know, you need to have this variety of case studies in order to appeal to all sorts of different types of demographics.

Jonathan: I’m going to push back on you now, Igor, because one of the things that I’m pretty sure we’ve talked about here, if not on the show, personally, is when you’re running your business and running your marketing you really want to tune in to one person, and really just focus on that one person, and so with all these different case studies doesn’t that dilute your message a little bit?

Igor: Oh, that’s a great question. It’s actually a very high quality question, and I really appreciate you for asking that Jonathan, because on one hand, yes. When you sit down to create your sales piece, when you write your email, when you write your sales letter, when you put together a video script that’s what you’re doing. You have one specific ideal customer in mind and you write your letter where you craft your message to fit these folks. And for me just like I have been saying, it’s been the white Caucasian American male who’s about to have a kid. Now, as far as case studies are concerned, this is where you want to be as diverse as possible, because even if you’re writing to a single character, you will still attract people from all walks of life. Because your story is so specific, or your copy is so specific, that is what’s going to make it actually believable and truthful. So once they learn to take your word seriously, take your copy seriously, take your promises seriously, then they will go seeking for evidence and proof as to how this can work for them, and they will find it in the case studies you present. So while creating the sales message, the sales piece, you do want to get super specific. When it comes to case studies, you want to get as they verse as humanly possible.

Jonathan: Now I get it. So the case studies are conversion mechanism if you will, including more people into the fold.

Igor: Yes. So it’s a means of pushing people off the fence if you will. So it in and of itself, a case study will not do you much good. Right? Because a lot of people look at you and they say, “Well, it’s fake.”

Jonathan: [laughter]

Igor: You know, “He can easily fake that.” And if they hate you and if these people don’t believe you they will look at all the case studies as fake. That something I learned from our mutual friend Ben Settle who said that case studies are really overrated, and on one hand that is correct. Now, if though your copy and your approach overall allows your reader or viewer to believe what you’re saying, to trust in the authenticity of your marketing then they will look at all these case studies as means of like where is the case study upon which I can mirror my own experience, right? And by finding that necessary case study, they are going to allow themselves to jump off the fence and say, “Okay, now that I can see some somebody who resembles me in a big way, I am going to give this thing a shot.”

Jonathan: That makes sense. I like it. I actually had to do that when I was getting testimonials for the Podcast Factory. I had to put women in there, I had to put a doctor in there, I had to put the superstars in there to let people know it wasn’t just for these A level guys like you and Ben and all of them, but I also had services for other people.

Igor: Oh yeah, that’s a really big point. A lot of times I see a brand new business opportunity at launch and the only testimonies they’ve got is from people who have made millions in other business opportunities, and they’re sort of like known faces in the industry. But nowhere do you see anyone who’s a rookie, who’s a beginner, saying that they started and they started making money. Because, well, probably because the opportunity’s just launching, they still haven’t had the time and they didn’t step into the company with a huge list or anything like that like the gurus are able to do. But yeah, it’s a great point that your job is to make sure that the message is loud and clear that these people can succeed in spite of not being. You know, in spite of being newbies, beginners, not having credibility not have any authority, not having a network. Basically in spite of every possible challenge they’re facing their life right now.

Jonathan: Reminds me of one of our early episodes where you talked about closing without proof. So I think this would tie in really well with that show, as well. The list builders want to check it out, although I don’t remember what number show that was, you’ll have to dig around for it.

Igor: Oh yeah, the case study is a really great tool; it’s like a tool in your arsenal. And all the same time you have to realize that in and of themselves, they don’t present much value, only after the prospect has been looking into your stuff and learned to trust your marketing. Because for some reason Jonathan, the way people make a buying decision, is they first learn to see your marketing as being the authentic mechanism, right? They kind of need to buy into your philosophies first and then as this confirmation bias, they look at the case studies and say, “Oh, other people are saying it’s true, so it must be true.” So they’re sort of like looking for ways to prove that the decision they have already made, which is to trust you, is the correct decision by looking at your case studies. It’s a backwards process, man, but that’s how the human brain works.

Jonathan: So where are some places that you recommend using these case studies?

Igor: Well I usually use my case studies as a means of proving a point in the sales letter, right? So if I make a claim of some sort, so it’s not just coming from me, I’ll back it up with a case study. I also like using case studies whenever I am doing a brand new promotion. So if it’s something that’s brand new that I never spoke about before, it’s always great to have some sort of a proof of an early beta tester that had access to this is these are the results they’ve got. Kind of like here’s a brand new diet and here’s a person that volunteered to be a guinea pig for the diet. They went on diet for six months and he lost a gazillion pounds. But also, I like using case studies as an overt influence mechanism. So I would put case studies on YouTube because I know that when people kind of look me up on Google and stuff, YouTube will pop up in the search and when they see a video of me interviewing somebody who went through my stuff and their life changed as a result, then it is really a whole other level. Because in and of itself that case study serves as a mini sales letters, as mini sales presentation, because it answers many of the common questions that I know my prospect is wondering.

Jonathan: Damn. I just snagged an idea from you. [laughter]

Igor: [laughter]

Jonathan: Yeah, yeah, I like that YouTube. I have these case studies and I don’t even have them on YouTube. Why don’t I have them on YouTube, Igor? Because I don’t have you as a coach. [laughter]

Igor: You’re leaving in money on the table. Shame on you.

Jonathan: Yeah, that’s why I tune in every week. [laughter]

Igor: [laughter]

Jonathan: Trying to recapture some of that dough I’m leaving on the table. So Igor, anything else you want to say on that repositioning and changing the idea to help people buy?

Igor: Well I don’t want to say anything as much as on repositioning. But what I do want to say is that you want to join the conversation at a much earlier stage. So if you’re selling online business opportunity, I see too many people jump right into selling the business opportunity. What I urge you to do is to take a step back and try to first talk about these preconceived notions and ideas people have, before you try to sell them something because you can’t really sell a car to someone who’s afraid to drive. Would you agree with that statement?

Jonathan: Yeah, absolutely.

Igor: So what you want to first do is explain to these folks that are looking into your stuff why driving is actually the best thing since sliced bread. Why driving is awesome, where you can move from point A to point B within minutes. Why? You could take your family to a trip and it’s going to cost you very little money and you’re going to move very, very fast and you can travel through the whole continent in a matter of a month. Right? In the same way that you can’t really sell a plane ticket to somebody who’s afraid to fly.

Jonathan: Smart, smart. Little bit of the education process and conversion process, diffusing before the objections get too big that they go away.

Igor: Nice. Before they explode in your face.

Jonathan: [laughter] That’s what I was thinking.

Igor: That’s a great word. Defusing. Like that.

Jonathan: So Igor, what do you have coming up for the next time?

Igor: Oh man, next episode has been the one of the episodes I’ve been really waiting for because I had the opportunity to secure a good 30 minutes with one of the greatest marketers of our time. Somebody who’s considered to be the, well he’s probably not the godfather of marketing, but he’s definitely godfather of ad words His name is Perry Marshall and pretty much anyone who is into marketing knows him, he’s the author of 80/20 Sales and Marketing and I have secured him for an interview where he shared how to really just cut the crap. You know, just cut the 80% of the effort that brings 20% the results, and focus on the 80% result. Man, this is confusing, right? So basically, what you’re going to learn is how to do little and get a lot. Right? So how do you have to do a little marketing and get a big result from that. So that’s what Perry Marshall’s all about and I can’t wait for Monday when this episode goes live.

Jonathan: Wow, wow. That is a big one. Looking forward to it. So that is a wrap for List Building Lifestyle, episode number 44. Thank you list builders for tuning in, and thank you Igor as always for sharing your insights with us.

Thanks for listening to The List Building Lifestyle Show, make sure to subscribe on iTunes or Google Play to never miss an episode because who knows just one conversion tactic we share on the show might double your list and double your business. Download the transcript of today’s episode and all future episodes at listbuilderslifestyleshow.com and don’t forget to claim your complimentary copy of “The Wealthy List Builder’s Survival Guide” at listbuildinglifestylesshow.com/survival. This is Igor Kheifets until next time we talk, have a good one.

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