How To Make Them Cry And Take Their Money

If you’re a coach, mentor or you’re just trying to recruit high quality people into your business, you’re probably bumping against a pesky problem.

There’s just not enough hard-working action-takers around, are they?

If you really want to change the world one person at a time…

You must learn how to hurt people.

I explain what I mean on the new episode of LBLS.

If you’re truly serious about helping people, stream it now.


This program is brought to you by the

Hi, my name is Igor Kheifets and this is the List Building Lifestyle, the only podcast which delivers cutting edge conversion strategies from the online trenches straight to your earbuds. Download the transcript of today’s episode and all future episodes at I also invite you to grab a free copy of “The Wealthy List Builder’s Survival Guide” at and now once again it’s time to claim your List Building Lifestyle.

Jonathan: Welcome back boys and girls to another edition of List Building Lifestyle. Here with me is the Chief List Builder himself, Mr. Igor Kheifets. What is up, my man?

Igor: Hooyah, Chief List Builder, I like that.

Jonathan: [laughter] Yo, so Igor before we jump into this, we are recording right now and you’ve had about a month of your new format where you’re mixing in interviews and regular shows and I’m wondering what kind of feedback you’re getting out there?

Igor: Well, to be honest from the stats I’m seeing, you’re right we are getting more downloads every single week so the show is growing as far as download count which as you told me is the most important thing but what’s even better is I’m getting tons of messages on Facebook from people literally saying that these episodes, these specific episodes interviewing some of the high performing marketers out there. By now we have already had like Justin Glover and Ross Bowring and Paulo Barroso and Miles Segers, I mean John Carlton like legend just a living legend. And so by publishing these episodes turns out Jonathan that we are inspiring people to action. So it’s just not the educational value that these experts bring to the table but I literally received a message from a friend/client today, and here’s what he says. Let me just pull up my Facebook here real quick. He said something real profound which struck me. I didn’t even realize. He says, “Igor, today’s episode inspired me for work. Thank you so much. Your guests have sure come a long way and I need to get my ass to work.” He literally says that after listening this interview, he has no more excuses to not put himself into achieving his dreams and his goals.

Jonathan: Wow, that’s deep.

Igor: So yeah, we’re going to keep doing it and so guys, List Builders listening, if you have any interesting guests on your radar that you feel might contribute to the show, feel free to drop me a Facebook message and let me know. I’ll do my best to reach out to them and secure them as a guest.

Jonathan: Very cool. So what do you have in store for us today, Igor?

Igor: Well, you know, Jonathan, a lot a person consider selling to be hype and if you talk to folks about what selling is, they will tell you, you got to tell people about your product. You got to demonstrate your product to people. You got to demonstrate how your product will improve their life. On some level, I believe that is true. You do have to explain and educate folks on why and how your product will dramatically improve their life and better yet instantly, dramatically improve their life as the late Eugene Schwartz used to say, “You got to have some instant gratification there.” But I do find that many marketers out there especially email marketers who make so many mistakes. I really hope that this show raises the awareness and raises the game for the entire industry when it comes to email marketing. I see almost no one finding that sore spot and banging it with a hammer. I don’t see anyone looking up that open wound that bleeding a little bit and sticking a knife into it and just twisting it real bad.

Jonathan: [laughter]

Igor: So it hurts because unless it really hurts, unless the prospect hurts metaphorically speaking of course unless you’re selling some sort of pain relief like unless they hurt so bad that they can’t bear the pain anymore, they will not act. They will not change anything. So by not intensifying the pain that already exists, you’re honestly not only leaving so much money on the table but you’re not helping people. You’re not helping them change their life with or without your product. So the best thing you can do, Jonathan, I believe is, you must first and foremost find that spot, find that spot that hurts the most and just do something, rub some salt into it, you have to do it because that’s how you get their attention. That’s how you get them to say okay, Jonathan, you got me. It hurts real bad. What do I need to do to make it go away? That’s when you can “prescribe” your product as the solution.

Jonathan: Man, you got to hurt them to help them, Igor. Whoa! [laughter] That doesn’t sound right to most people but I know exactly what you’re saying. I can’t wait to hear more.

Igor: Well, you see I learned this when I was selling coaching. First off, it’s expensive so it really has to hurt for someone to buy it. Second, I realized that the one hurdle I was facing was to sell the coaching but the hurdle I was facing was actually getting them to do something. Like when they were paying me up to $15,000 a year, I had so many people do nothing and naturally what that lead to was a coaching program without case studies. Now what can be more ironic of course in our industry than coaching programs with no case studies but I said look I’m not going to be one of those douche bags that sell coaching but have no proof to show for it whatsoever. So I went out there and I started testing. I started looking for commonalities because occasionally I would get someone who would take action and I didn’t need to push them. Right? I did get an occasional student that would excel – they were driven. They were like self-driven if you will. What I found when I studied these people in my program and in other programs because I consulted other coaches about this and we all had the same problem like getting people to do something. The people who were doing well. The people who were pushing hard, who were responsible, who were disciplined, the people who never bitched about anything and instead took aggressive massive action, the one commonality was they all hurt bad. They were either getting close to bankruptcy. They were deep in debt with their credit cards. They were facing some sort like eviction or maybe they were about to lose their day job or better yet and these guys succeed the best with me, it was the guys who were mere months away from the baby, from having a baby.

Jonathan: Hmm.

Igor: That somehow it switches something in your brain especially if you’re a provider, you’re a father if you’re a provider/mother which is also possible in today’s society, I realize that but I’m more of a conservative guy. To me, a man is the provider and when you realize that there is going to be another mouth to feed, when you realize there is going to be another person, another human being that relies on you and it’s painful. It’s scary to say the least. You start hustling. You don’t complain. You don’t care about price. You just want to get the result and these were the best clients. So what I’ve done is I started rubbing some salt into it. So an average sales call at the time would take me like 40 minutes but then I said look doesn’t matter if they are primed or not, doesn’t matter if they love me or hate me, doesn’t matter if they know anything about they should work with me or not, I got to rub some salt into their wounds. So what I’ve done is I added an extra 20 minutes not matter who I was talking to that focused specifically on the shit that they were going through.

Jonathan: Hmm.

Igor: And that worked like gang busters, not only to make more sales, it pretty much doubled my conversions. But it also allowed me to have people build sales funnels, write emails, do things that are kind of complicated if you think about it to an average person that some people wait for years, for years before they can overcome that fear of just putting a squeeze page together. All of a sudden these people were acting, were hustling. They were doing things they didn’t believe they couldn’t do. All thanks to me, bringing all of that pain to the surface.

Jonathan: You know what is funny is you say that and I don't know if we talked about it before but I’m adopting a kid. We’re adopting a child. We’re going to have a little boy and once I found out that we were close to this, I don't know what happened with me but I was able to double my business in a year just knowing that I have a kid coming and I got to get my shit together so it’s funny that you say that because it does spark something in you. If you care, it sparks something in you to do more than you thought you could do.

Igor: Yeah and I can totally relate to that. You know back in 2011, no 12, I’m so bad with dates. I hope my wife doesn’t listen to this. Back in 2012, November 1 st was the due date for my kid and I believe about six months before the date I was speaking to my coach and he has four kids and I was like, “Dude, I’m so scared. I’m not sure if I can handle this, both the baby and the business and this and that.” He obviously having four kids, he assured me that it’s all good and I’m going to handle it. But somehow the month she was born, November 2012, [laughter]

Jonathan: You better get it right.

Igor: November 2012, I quite literally that same month, I released an offer that doubles my business as well. It literally happened, it seemed like it happened over night and I never went below that income ever since. You know there is a great saying, “A wallet once expanded to a certain size does never shrink back” which is a saying by my friend Marshall Silver. I believe that to be the case and the only way that that is effective for me to keep expanding my wallet is the pain and the fear. We have been over this in one of the previous episodes and I recommend that you go listen to it again if you haven’t or if you have go just listen to it again anyway. Where I shared where fear and pain are my – I use those as fuel. That’s pretty much it for me that’s how I move forward. I know very few people who are able to take an idea or an exciting thing, something or an idea that arouses them of say making a million dollars a month or something and go implement that because the shit you have to go through to make that happen is ridiculous. You have to have a very bad alternative like, not achieving that has to bring up some massive pain for you to be able to bear the crap you got to go through to achieve your end result.

Jonathan: That’s it. The carrot or the stick. The stick will motivate you for sure.

Igor: And it might have to do with my Russian upbringing, my post-Soviet upbringing because the nation is very pain driven. You look at the President right now. They say that it’s a democracy when of course it’s not a democracy at all. He controls everyone. There is a reason why the Russian people will always be ruled a czar like a king, a dictator because that’s the kind of people – he’s perfect for the people and the people are perfect for him. They only know fear and strength that’s how they respect someone, only when they fear that person. So maybe it has something to do with that, I don't know but all I do know is that that’s my mechanism. I went through meditation, yoga, self-discovery; I actually ended up in a cult once for six months.

Jonathan: What?

Igor: Yeah, I’m sure we’ll have an episode about that sometime down the road. But it was sick, I spent like 50 grand going back and forth between Israel and Fort Lauderdale, Florida just paying ridiculous amounts of money to a bunch of messed up people and I just wanted to be part of that community because they promised to help me get rid of all my problems so they tried to eradicate that. It is sort of like Scientology. So they tried to make me a happy person but they failed. Maybe I failed but they failed with me in an attempt to make me positivity driven guy. It just didn’t work. I always reverted back to negativity, fear, pain etc and for me as well as many of my clients as well as many of my friends, entrepreneurial friends the thing that pushes you forward is the pain. Sure it’s exciting to sit there dreaming of the ideal scenario but I don’t know of anything that drives you forward harder than the stick and make sure that stick is boiling hot not just painful but it has to be seriously, seriously painful for you to move forward.

Jonathan: So it’s interesting that you actually and this is something that I’m troubled with too is when you’re working with people and they don’t take action so you actually made it a part of your coaching not just your sales process but your whole coaching to keep that stick ready and willing and whipping, huh?

Igor: Absolutely and this concept goes back to our mutual friend, Ben Settle shares. I believe in one of his emails, he shared that in Christianity they use the Devil about five times for every one time that they mention God. So in the Bible if you open up the Bible, you’ll see the references of God to Devil one to five. The reason is because a movement, your movement, your personal movement forward, your personal pursuit of a goal is much more likely to be sustained and to be consistent if you’re constantly being reminded of the enemy, the Devil. So the Devil might be the prospect of being poor. The Devil might be your kid not having food on the table. The Devil might be your wife leaving you because you’re a loser. I don't know whatever that might be for you, List Builders listening. The Devil has to be clear and precise. Notice by the way that God is abstract but the Devil is always very precise in the way that they describe him so you’re devil which you of course know exactly what that devil is for you has to be so clear and so vivid that you will simply not be able to sleep well at night knowing that you’re not doing everything you can possibly be doing to move away from him.

Jonathan: So Igor I’m wondering do you still that coaching or do you have different stuff going on nowadays?

Igor: Well, I don’t do the $15,000 a year coaching anymore because it was very intensive, I gave lots, and lots private attention every single day to my clients which I realized was not for me. Not because I hate people but because…

Jonathan: [laughter] Only a little bit.

Igor: [laughter] Just a little bit, yeah. But because I derive more pleasure creating promotions, writing emails, like I’m more of an operations guy not so much a people person. So I do less of that. The other thing that I do have is my VIP club which you can go and check out at where get both traffic and coaching in a form of content where I share with you how to excel at salesmanship and how to promote your business opportunity effectively and make sales but also you get private time with me once a month. So it’s not super intensive but I’ll make sure that you’re in pain so you don’t let yourself off the hook because that’s the only way, Jonathan, you can help a person really. I mean you can’t really help a person unless they are willing to climb the ladder. You can’t really pull them up with you unless they are willing to climb a little bit themselves which I think Dale Carnegie was the one to say that. I agree with him completely because I tried that. I remember staying up till 4 am in the morning writing someone else’s sales speech because I felt obligated to do so because they paid me money to coach them. But I forgot that coaching is a two-way street which I was later reminded by my mentor and my coaches. I never expected my coaches and my mentors to do anything for me as I’m sure you never did.

Jonathan: Right.

Igor: We are self-oriented. The reason for success is within self. It is not outside of self therefore I did this for myself but I did not enforce it on my clients which was a huge mistake. It made me miserable in the first year of coaching but eventually we changed that of course. Incidentally we had way more success stories as a result.

Jonathan: Wow. That is so cool. So what do you have coming up for the List Builders next time?

Igor: Well next time, we are going to talk email marketing and squeeze pages. So basically getting people on your list and then emailing them for profit. We are going to focus on this one specific ingredient that is more important than the email, more important than the call to action and more important than the subject line, the one ingredient that actually defines whether or not your email was going to be opened.

Jonathan: Nice. Alright looking forward to that so that is a wrap for List Building Lifestyle we will be back in your earbuds in a couple of days.

Thank you for listening to The List Building Lifestyle Show, make sure to subscribe on iTunes or Google Play to never miss an episode because who knows just one conversion tactic we share on the show might double your list and double your business. Download the transcript of today’s episode and all future episodes at and don’t forget to claim your complimentary copy of “The Wealthy List Builder’s Survival Guide” at This is Igor Kheifets until next time we talk, have a good one.

This is the

  • Mike 10th June 2016, 3:08 pm

    Hi Igor,
    Your podcast is amazing, but I do have a question. I cannot sell a product that doesn’t help 100% of the time. Where do I find a “SOLID” product that works? It can be Info product or physical product or any type of a product. I want to be proud selling it. I want to be able to look to potential customer in the eye’s a tell him / her “here is the solution to your problem I CAN Guarantee it, I can put my reputation on it. So the customer will have to be a full to pass on it…. ”
    I currently work for a big flower company in US, manage PPC ads (very big budgets $200K / month), I know how to market, but I am looking for good products to market. Maybe you can do a webinar on “source of great products to promote”
    Thank You Igor

    • Igor Kheifets 11th June 2016, 3:25 am

      Mike, that’s a great question. Then, what you’re looking to sell is something which requires zero participation on the client’s part. Something the client can’t screw up. All kinds of software and entertainment comes to mind.


Who Is Igor Kheifets

Igor Kheifets is the 3rd highest-earning super-affiliate in the internet marketing niche.

Igor’s 2-step system has helped him consistently rank as the highest-earning and the highest-converting (measured in commissions earned per click) for industry’s leading vendors including but not limited to Matt Bacak, John Crestani and Anthony Morrison.

Igor boiled down success in affiliate marketing to a set of predictable easy steps anyone can take to generate commissions.


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