Anti-Selling Secret To Turning Reluctant Leads Into Desperate Buyers

Why do some marketers get all the best prospects
knocking on their doorstep while other hardworking
marketers struggle to get sign ups?

Authority and Positioning.

In this episode, Igor and Jonathan share how to gain
instant authority in the marketplace to become the
go-to expert in your niche.


This program is brought to you by the

Jonathan: You are listening to “List Building Lifestyle”. Welcome back List Builders to another episode, here is your host Mr. Igor Kheifets. What is up, brother?

Igor: What’s up Jonathan? List Builders, I salute you.

Jonathan: Nice, I salute you. I just got a vision of you. [laughter]

Igor: Well, that’s because I did, man. You got to move the hands. I used to sell on the phone a lot and I would literally walk around the coffee shop with my 11 inch MacBook Air in my hand and just waving hands and I was like the tube man from “Family Guy”, he’s waving his hands like that.

Jonathan: Yeah, really? You did that in the coffee shop? They didn’t kick you out?

Igor: They did not. Dude, I sort of live in the hick town so they kind of fight for every customer. That’s why I go there. Because they make me feel special.

Jonathan: [laughter] That’s right, that’s cool. So what do you have in store for us today Igor?

Igor: Well, I would like to start with a quote today by Perry Marshall because surprisingly I knew this guy was really smart but I rediscovered him recently by reading the “80/20” marketing book which I recommend you guys get. Basically, I would like to start with a quote from that book and that is “I was trying to be an authority but me knocking on their door positioned me as a beggar”. Think about it for a minute, Jonathan, how profound is that?

Jonathan: Yeah. Yeah, it’s totally bad.

Igor: Yeah, we want to get the sale. We want our customers to respect us to behave. I use this term a lot lately. We want them to buy our stuff. We want them to cherish working with us just like we cherish with them. But often times what often ends up happening is that we show up even when we have the genuine desire to help them, we still show up as beggars. We show up as people who are desperate and needy for their approval and wallets.

Jonathan: Bad positioning.

Igor: Now that just kills attraction. So what you want to do is instead of seeking approval, being needy, you want to start showing up as an authority in that marketplace that is fundamentally what I see wrong with 99% of people that I talk to especially, especially the folks who kind of refuse to take things to the next level. They approach me, they write to me on Facebook a lot of times, they are like Igor, “I don’t make much money. I work in a really bad job”, like construction or something and they really want to get out of this rut. You got to tell me, you got to show me the plan, you got to show me the way to 10K per month, you got to give it to me, and so that sort of philosophy, that attitude can you feel the desperation, Jonathan?

Jonathan: Yeah, especially you got to give it to me, homeboy, if you want it, you got to get it.

Igor: Exactly. Thank you. That’s the kind of attitude those hot chicks in bars have. Like if you’ve ever been to Tel Aviv, you just walk down the street and it’s like a strip show. It’s summer, it’s hot. Women just take all their clothes off, it’s ridiculous. Tel Aviv is a very young and advanced sort of hub so you have lots and lots of young women. Now, I’m pretty sure I’ve offended a few women already on this episode so I’m just going to keep going but for the guys out there if you ever walk down the street and everywhere you see hot women around you naturally you can only assume that these women get hit on a lot so it’s very soon that they develop this attitude of “if you want me, you got to win me over”, you got to do something to earn my attention and earn my approval. Now, incidentally, that’s exactly how the customer feels when there is a sales conversation happening. The customer feels like you, the salesperson, the marketer, the service provider is supposed to win their approval. Now the one thing that is not true about sales is exactly this. You’re not supposed to do that. I have heard almost every single direct response guy talk about this recently so I decided to sort of do and episode about it myself where we focus on really driving this paradigm, this new paradigm for you guys, for you List Builders that you are not supposed to win anyone over. You’re not supposed to sit there and pitch them with things and pamper them and put them on a pedestal. That’s the last thing you want to do.

Jonathan: [laughter]

Igor: It doesn’t matter. It doesn’t matter who the person is. I don’t care if they are millionaires. I don’t care if they are big shots. When I approached Jonathan to do the podcasts, there was never at any point of that conversation where I felt Jonathan, that you were somehow desperate to get my business.

Jonathan: Thank goodness.

Igor: Quite that contrary.

Jonathan: [laughter]

Igor: Well…

Jonathan: You’re lucky to work with me. I’m the trophy.

Igor: See. Well played, my friend. Well played. You win. So quite the contrary, I felt like I was supposed to convince you on some level that I’m a good client. You see that is where you stop being a beggar and become an authority when they come to you asking you for permission to be your customer. That is why personally I kind of hate social media.

Jonathan: What?

Igor: Because social media when you start approaching people, you literally knock on their virtual door and you look like a beggar. I posted an ad on a website about some media buying. I’ve had a bunch of media companies that offer advice reach out to me. So you can clearly see who’s like worthy of working with and who’s not because the ones that are not, they are desperate. They are desperate. You can ask them for anything you want. You can negotiate discounts anyway you please. You can play them. You can ignore them. That’s the part of discourse that I hate when it’s down to me but a negotiation with a service provider who I know is desperate, I can play that service provider in a way where I can just not answer their email for a day or two. I can just do that and let them cook, sort of like let them marinate.

Jonathan: Play hard to get.

Igor: Exactly. So the longer you’re willing to play that game, the needier they become and the more power you have in that conversation. So usually of course that’s the opposite of what’s going on in a day to day environment where for the most part it’s a salesman who is the marketer, that’s the desperate one.

Jonathan: Yeah.

Igor: So that’s how you go from begging for approval, that’s how you go from chasing people to attracting your ideal clients, it’s getting clear on that idea on who the ideal client is and playing hard to get, setting up barriers. It’s not supposed to be easy to get to you, there has to be barriers. That’s why there’s a bunch of people between me and the customer. There is the application processes, there’s emails, there’s assistants, there’s Dennis’, there’s a bunch of mechanisms in place even before you can even get to me and that’s a part of why by the time they end up working with me, it is such a great experience and they actually take action. I found out, Jonathan, that when we play this game, when you’re really able to generate the sense of authority with your audience which you should be. The clients they comply that’s the beautiful part. They comply and they take action and they get results.

Jonathan: Nice.

Igor: A lot of times, I would connect with my friends, other top earners, and one of the most common complaints that I always get especially in their marketing space is that people don’t do anything.

Jonathan: Yeah.

Igor: So they would bitch about how they would spend two months developing this thing and doing a big launch to sell this thing but eventually almost no one did anything so they walk away really discouraged because not only did they not influence any lives or very few lives in a really positive way but also the refund rates, they kind of skyrocket because if you buy something and you don’t use it why would you keep it, right? You want to get your money back.

Jonathan: So a couple of questions here, Igor. First, how long did it take you to figure out and make that shift because I remember in early episodes where you talked about how you worked for many years and didn’t make any dough so I’m sure you were hungry so how did you make that shift from starving salesperson to an authority that you’re lucky to work with?

Igor: Well, it really comes down to self-image Jonathan. I believe that one of the reasons that it took me three and half years to make anything was because that is how much time it took for me to build somewhat of a self-image of a knowledgeable person in this industry. In other words, I made a classic mistake which I keep instructing my clients not to do which I was asking for permission.

I was asking for permission from the market place to love me, if you will, to respect me. I was waiting for some sort of approval from someone or something that would allow me to say you know what, now I can be that guy. So I did not have the confidence to become that person faster and no wonder, I mean I had no reason to. It was only after I started studying sales, marketing persuasion because the first two years I studied the technical element of the business which I now realize was a big mistake, I should have just ignored the technical element of the business and studied persuasion all the way. It was only then when I started developing this. It worked for me – marketing worked the same way for me as women. The moment that I realized that women have mechanisms, buttons and levers that I could pull so if I do something and they respond a certain way almost every single time, I was finally able to put myself if not higher than they were on a social scale but at least on the same level because before I was able to make that happen I was always beneath them. They were on the pedestal, I was beneath them. So how can you possibly communicate authority to somebody you put on the pedestal? That’s impossible.

Jonathan: For sure. They are looking down at you. [laughter]

Igor: Exactly, it doesn’t matter how much I knew by the way, I knew everything that there was to know about blogs and squeeze pages and tracking systems and split testing and Google analytics. It was my home page at the time did not help, okay, I knew Aweber in and out, I knew Get Response, I knew everything there was to know about the technical side of the business but I really, really, the one thing that I couldn’t do, is I could not show up high status. You know how you walk into a room like a seminar for example; you just came back from a seminar recently. So you walk into the room and you instantly seek the high status people. You know they are high status based on their behavior, by their language, etc. You see other people cornering them in the room.

Jonathan: Yeah.

Igor: So I went from seeking other people with high status and giving that high status to people to being high status so other people had to give high status to me and that changed everything that dynamic, the way I showed up in the market place.

Jonathan: So, on the flipside of that, when you put all the barriers in place and all the hoops to jump through you said that your clients are better qualified and they take action on the information or the advice you give them. How does that make you feel as an expert or as their guru when they actually take action and get results?

Igor: First off, there is a lot of personal fulfillment because it gives purpose and meaning to what we are doing. At some point you realize it can no longer be just about the money. It can no longer be just about numbers. It’s not enough, Jonathan. That’s why you see lots and lots of gurus especially the ones from back from the Click Bank era where they used to do these big launches all of the time. You know 90% of them quit.

Jonathan: Wow.

Igor: They just left the industry. Now they blame it on the fact that the industry is a scammy industry and to a portion they are right but any industry is scammy to some extent. I feel that their problem was not having that personally fulfillment and making any sort of contribution to the lives of their clients. I know this because I went through a similar stage about two and half years ago where I worked my ass off, 8 am until 8 pm. I literally was making more money than I could ever have imagined I would be able to make online. I surpassed all my expectations. The thing is I was not fulfilled. I was coming back home feeling bored, discouraged, I lacked interest in everything including my family and my health was deteriorating. I was getting really, really fat. I was just overworked and frustrated. So what I’ve done is what I always do in such situations I called up a friend who’s been in the industry for longer than I have. I said D. I’m going through this rough patch right now, I don’t understand. I’m making money. I’m not fulfilled. I’m actually considering quitting the damn business all together.

But of course, I’m afraid because that’s how I make my living. To which he said, he went through a similar stage and he realized that when you have food on the table and you have a car in the driveway so you sort of handled the basic necessities of whatever it is that you need to survive and thrive and to be at least middle class, he said this is when it has to mean more than just making money.

Because you lose interest in money just like when you master a video game, you lose interest in the game. There is no more challenge and no more surprise. So the challenge now becomes to touch as many lives as you can, to influence as many lives as you can, to get results for as many people as you can and this was a game changer for me because it sort of like a second breath opened up for me and all of a sudden everything is different. All of a sudden I’m willing to invest more time in the business on top of what I was doing. All of a sudden, I don’t feel stressed out. I work a full day’s work or sometime even longer like 12 hours instead of 8 or 6 and I come back home energized and thriving. You know what I mean, have you ever felt that?

Jonathan: Yeah, yeah. [laughter] I let go of a business just the end of last year because I was exactly feeling that where I wasn’t making the impact that I needed to make and I turned my full focus here working with guys like you because of the impact that I know that you’re making and I’m helping and I feel more fulfilled every day that I get to do this so I know exactly what you mean. That’s why I want to ask you more about that.

Igor: Well, you pushed a button my friend. You definitely pushed a button.

Jonathan: Buttons and levers.

Igor: Yeah, absolutely because at the end of the day nothing, nothing in our shallow existence has meaning, right, like the money we make, the cars we drive, whatever. That is meaningless absolutely meaningless. What has meaning is what’s left behind, the legacy.

Jonathan: Yeah.

Igor: And you know what when I go, I want to be remembered as the guy who touched many lives. So Jim Rohn passed a couple of years ago or Gary Halbert who passed several years before that, their name lives on. Their names mean something. They touched lives years after they are dead. I want this to be me, Jonathan. I say this with full confidence and conviction right now. I hold nothing back and it’s not the most noble I guess of reasons to do what I do but I want for my legacy to mean something. I want for my legacy to inspire. I want for my legacy to change lives. If I go tomorrow, if I get hit by a truck or something and I was able to touch at least one life after I’m gone even through this podcast, I’ll be happy. I’ll be happy going away. I’ll be happy leaving this world because I know that my life actually meant something, that I wasn’t just here to be selfish and to enjoy experiences and to eat food or have sex or swim in the pools. I know that …

Jonathan: [laughter]

Igor: No, seriously, people think that making money online is about big mansions and driving Ferraris, I mean that shit doesn’t matter. What matters is that guys like you and me, Jonathan; we raise awareness about how making money actually is an easy thing, not a difficult thing. We make the world a better place because a society in which everyone thrives financially is a safe, fulfilled, and prosperous society. The society where I grew up in, a society of poverty and violence is not a society where it’s fun to grow up. It’s not a society that cultivates generations of people that are driven to improve this world. It’s a society that creates monsters, honestly, I’ve seen those monsters. I was halfway to becoming one myself and I thank my parents, by the way, that they took me out of that society back in Ukraine, moved me to Israel because I don’t think I would have made it to 18 or 21 had I stayed there.

Jonathan: Wow. Wow. It’s so crazy how our stories are similar. I lived in New York and I’m so grateful that my parents pulled me out of there because I would have went down the wrong road too. Wow, this got deep. I think we just got too deep here.[laughter]

Igor: I don’t think there is such a thing as getting too deep, man.

Jonathan: Man, so Igor, what do you have coming up for the List Builders next time?

Igor: Well next time I’m interviewing Justin Glover, who is a fairly famous internet marketer here. He has his own show as well which, forgive me Justin, I don’t remember the name of your show, my friend but we are going to be rapping about how to attract your ideal clients so where to go, how to identify them, how to pick up on the signs, so we are going to go ideal client hunting with Justin Glover.

Jonathan: Wow, I can’t wait to hear that. So that is a wrap for “List Building Lifestyle”. Thank you, Igor, for sharing a little piece of yourself and thank you List Builders for tuning in.

Thanks for tuning into The List Building Lifestyle show, if you’re digging what you’re hearing your next step is to go to iTunes and in the search bar type List Building Lifestyle. You’ll see Igor’s face smiling at you. Go ahead and click on that, subscribe to the show and if you’re feeling really generous and you want to help us out, give us your ratings and review to help other smart people like you find the show. Thanks for tuning in and we will see you on the next one.

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Who Is Igor Kheifets

Igor Kheifets is the 3rd highest-earning super-affiliate in the internet marketing niche.

Igor’s 2-step system has helped him consistently rank as the highest-earning and the highest-converting (measured in commissions earned per click) for industry’s leading vendors including but not limited to Matt Bacak, John Crestani and Anthony Morrison.

Igor boiled down success in affiliate marketing to a set of predictable easy steps anyone can take to generate commissions.


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