If You Fake It, You Won’t Make It With Ross Bowring

Why is there so much deceit online?

What makes people lie about their earnings

when trying to recruit someone into their business?

Who came up with the whole “fake it ’till you
make it” thang?

Whoever it was… they’re wrong!

This episode of the List Building Lifestyle is a
paradigm-crusher for those who still believe faking
it ’till you make it works.

It offers a definite “integrity marketing” guide
for those who refuse to get involved in all the treachery.

Discover how sign more people up into your business with
integrity and without pretence, trickery or hypocrisy now.


This program is brought to you by the ThePodcastFactory.com.

Igor: Welcome back to List Building Lifestyle with Igor Kheifets and today I’m sitting down with Ross Bowring. You might have not heard the name before but I assure you this is somebody who is extremely intelligent when it comes to increasing sales and writing sizzling hot copy for the internet marketing niche. In fact this person, this dude right here, has been a tremendous influence in my success not just in terms of a mentor and someone who taught me to write good copy but also somebody who wrote a lot of my copy back in the day and literally singlehandedly built my brand into whatever it is today, I’m not even sure whatever it is. So Ross, I’m truly excited to be hosting you today on the show. How are you today, my friend?

Ross: Igor, I’m good. We have a surprise snowstorm here in Pennsylvania, USA, and so yes there is a smattering of snow but the sun is out because we are going to be chatting about some good stuff.

Igor: Alright, nice. We haven’t had snow in like six and half years so you know, [laughter] you can consider yourself a lucky man. [laughter] So let’s chat about selling and specifically about the that part of the selling process or should I say that part of the journey that every single one of us goes through when we join a company or MLM program and we need to sell it now but we have zero proof that we’ve made any money with it whatsoever. People ask us, “Okay you pitched this company to me but how much money have you made?” So what should we do in that case?

Ross: Let me just take a little bit of a step back and tell you a little bit about my history with internet marketing and MLM stuff, companies and systems and stuff like that. Back in the day how I started this whole journey for myself in terms of being able to sell and being interested in selling and actually becoming obsessed with how to do it well and working very, very hard at it for many years now, I was prospected to join a network marketing company back in the day and I joined and I was the world’s worst network marketer at the time. I didn’t want to tell anybody about what I was selling. I didn’t really want to talk to too many people which didn’t really help back then [03:00] but you see now you’ve got online so you don’t necessarily be walking around talking to everybody within a 10 street radius in order to involve them into your company. You can do it you know in much more leveraged hands off way too.

So what I actually did was I went into copywriting instead and stuff like that after I started with this fellow at response marketing and ended up writing a lot of copy before for some rather well known network marketing figures. I have done a lot for Ray Higgins for example and had some success with some promotions with them. I did the copy for his seminar. I did the copy for his wife’s product that she was most successful with a few years ago. So I’ve got a lot of background in terms of selling and marketing but also just an understanding of how the whole thing works and how you can come in as a newbie as it were into a company and you can solve the eternal problem which is well I want to sell people on this opportunity, I want to help people learn about this opportunity but at the same time I know that I’m not making any money yet with this. I’m very new to this and so how do I solve that problem? My take on it is always coming from a point of high authenticity with the people who you’re talking with. So I would never advocate for example pretending that you’re making money. I would never advocate pretending that I’m making X amount of money when I’m not. That’s just wrong and silly and it’s illegal and you shouldn’t do it. The way to think about this that every company that’s out there if it’s been around for any amount of decent time at all has a lot of what I would call persuasion assets. So let’s talk about what those things are. Are you good if I just keep going, Igor?

Igor: Oh yeah, absolutely I’m just chilling back here. I got stuff to catch up on. I’m good keep going.

Ross: I will just go off on my own then. Every company has persuasion assets, true core ones that they have. One is that they have systems. So there is something special about this system and every company if they’re a good company has something special about their system, their compensation plan or maybe it’s how they market, maybe it’s their products, maybe it’s service that they sell, maybe it’s some kind of structure to their company that other companies don’t have and that is a selling point so that is a way to talk up what you’re involved in. The other asset you know that any type of successful company has is success stories. So they already have people who have used this system or they’ve used a company, they’ve enrolled and they’ve been successful and those people are kind of where you’re going to find your proof in terms of being able to let people know that this is an opportunity which is working for people. [06:00] The real optimal way to do it if you’re totally new which does require a little bit of legwork but not a crazy amount but something which is reasonable to the point where using the logic that you’re going out of this opportunity what you put into it and so what I would do if I was new to a company today, what I would do is I would look at my company, I would investigate a little bit and I would see how particular people are being successful. You’ve got these success stories about people who are doing good in your company and so if you listen to this and the company has a website or back in the day when I was involved marketers actually had a success book that they published that had success stories in it. All of these people who have been successful in the company are doing it slightly different. I will give you some examples. Some might be using brochures, some might be using old school hand shaking networking prospects, others might be using online funnels, others might be using a particular type paid ad, others might be using content marketing and so it’s your job to kind of do a little bit of questioning, ask these people how are they doing their stuff or find out what they are doing and study their technique. Then if you’re with a person who you want to tell the opportunity whether that’s over an email or you’re talking to them over email or you’re talking to them in any form. I would kind of do a pitch kind of like this where I was kind of you know I’m obviously just starting this but what I’ve noticed in this particular company that you know person X is over there doing X amount of money a month doing brochure marketing and what I’ve done is studied what they are doing very, very closely. I’ve attended the training they have done, I’ve attended the downline training and stuff. There person X who is over there whose doing X amount of money a month and he’s doing it all via online ads and email marketing. So what I’ve done is I’ve become the world’s best student with him and seen exactly what he’s doing then you’ve got person Y who’s using promotional brochures or something. Well I’ve studied how they’re doing it too and what I’m going to do with anyone that I work with is share all of this information how these people are doing this and be able to give them choices in terms of the best fit for them. Some people don’t want to do you know brochures. Some people don’t want to do online paid ad but some people want to do email marketing so email marketing is what I’m going to focus on to be able to teach people how to do this based on the success this person is having in this company. [09:00] People think that the main objection when someone is looking at joining a company is “oh it’s a scam” but let me tell you that’s not really what the core objection. That’s just like a surface level expression of what the objection is. The actually true objection is “oh I’m going to have to do stuff that I don’t want to do or I’m going to feel uncomfortable doing.”

So the fact that you can offer a little bit of an array of choice in terms of the methodology they will be using in an important thing because then they can kind of choose what’s best for them and it’s a bit of a better fit for a lot of people and you know people definitely appreciate the opportunity to have that choice so I think often times people will hide behind the “oh it doesn’t work” or “it’s a scam” when the reality is that they don’t believe in themselves to do the stuff necessary to build it or they still like it distasteful or they just don’t want to learn it or it’s beyond them somehow. So people kind of hide behind the attitude of “oh well, it doesn’t work”. I think ultimately it comes down to people’s level of confidence in themselves.

So as a new person involving someone else, I would leverage the results of other people in the company and I would use the methodology that they use to be successful as setting points to be able to get people of choice in terms of how to go about it. How’s that Igor, does that make sense?

Igor: Yeah, yeah. I like the strategy a lot. First off because you’re not lying to anybody about anything. You don’t have to pretend to be somebody you’re not. You don’t have to tell things that you don’t believe in. You literally just tell the truth. Now what this brings up for me, the concern that it brings up for me is wouldn’t me saying to my prospect that you’ve got this successful person here I’ve studied them extensively wouldn’t that push people away and make me look like an amateur?

Ross: Well, I think that just in terms of keeping aligned with the old adage of tell the truth, right. Then let’s say that you are new to it would it be right to tell people that you’re a professional?

Igor: Absolutely not.

Ross: No, right. So what you would do instead was you would acknowledge the truth in an attractive way which is I was attracted to this opportunity in the same way that you are, you’re talking to your prospect. I was attracted to this opportunity in the same way that you could be and I’ve just gone gung-ho into studying what works in this. Now I’m getting ready to actually partner with a few people to actually show them how this is working for people. What I can do is also put you in front of these people in terms of getting on calls and stuff just so you know that they are doing this amount of money and they are having this level of success.

So what you want to do basically is tell the truth about what you’re doing.[12:00] The biggest really erroneous and irresponsible line people use is “fake it till you make it” bull crap. I think it much better to just tell the truth in a sexy way than you are faking till you make it because it’s obvious to me. Just as an example, I sit in Starbucks and do a lot of my work, right. So when I’m in Starbucks and I do a lot of my work, I actually get to hear a lot of network marketing presentations because people come in and they have their little coffees with prospects and there are some people who do it well, the odd one, and there are some people who do it really poorly and the people who do it poorly are the people who you can tell are putting on a show and they are trying to be the pro with a lot of posture and stuff like that. It gives off a bad energy and you can see the prospect kind of recoiling as they do that stuff.

Igor: If I may, Ross, to interrupt you. I would like to add because it’s my show. I get to talk a little bit here.

Ross: It is your show.

Igor: So as somebody who has done both strategies, I started out and I was taught to “fake till I make it” and then I met you and you know I realized that didn’t quite work. So yeah, trying to pretend someone you’re not it comes across through everything you do. I don’t care if you’re writing the emails. I don’t care if you’re shooting YouTube videos for meeting selling face to face. If you pretend to be somebody you’re not, if you bullshit people if you’re insincere about where it is that you’re on the journey most more often than not people can actually feel it. It’s like there is a sixth sense that people have. They know you’re full of it.

Ross: Well, I concur with that and what I would add to that too is when you are insincere or when you’re coming from a place of not telling the truth about you’re real level of income or your real level of knowledge or your real level of anything and you’re just not being authentic to people what happens is even if you do enroll people into your business like all of us tend to attract people to us who are basically a mirror of our energy and a mirror of who we’re being. So what you end up doing and if you do attract people into your business, you’re attracting authentic people who are similar to you in terms of walking around being inauthentic and not being cool with people and not just being them. The actual real secret is that if you want to do well in that kind of thing and part of what I’m talking about here I’ve learned based on a decade of intense selling and understanding people and understanding incentives and understanding why people do stuff and why they don’t do stuff but part of it is through close observation in the networking [15:00] marketing industry and looking at whose is doing well and who seems not to be doing well. Most people in network marketing aren’t doing too well and the reason why is because they buy into very old school concepts like “fake till you make it” or like the [inaudible0:15:15.9] where they are obviously putting on some kind of show for people when the truth is that they are not doing too well. You can always smell desperation on people. So if you’re not doing too well and by not doing too well what I mean is I should say instead that you started, you don’t have results yet but you’re working hard to get them, right? That’s the person that’s going to get the most of this podcast. It’s the person whose got really good intentions to help their family a lot to build a business but they haven’t gotten anything to shout about yet in terms of results but they are working hard to get them.

So the best way for you to move forward and to make the effort count that you’re doing now is to really take a really kind of radical honesty approach to where you are, acknowledge where you are, be very self-aware to the fact that you’re not killing it yet, you’re not crushing it yet or whatever. It would be wrong to tell people that you are. What is right to tell people is that you’re working very, very hard to master a business and you’ve come across some ways to be able to build this business that are very effective based on what you’ve seen other people do using the same system.

So what you’re doing is giving those people an intense study, you’re giving those people a ton of questions in terms of how they’re doing it and the different ways they are doing it and then you can offer that knowledge up to people who work with you and so what you’re basically saying look I just started I’m working like a dog here working hard at this thing, I see a very bright future for it. Come join me, I’ll show you what I learned already and we’ll go and do great things together. That is much more of an honest approach to selling an opportunity like than the more typical stuff gives network marketing a bad name.

Igor: Yeah, absolutely. Again like “fake it till you make it” didn’t work for me. I got my first breakthrough with affiliate marketing and when I had a little bit of a breakthrough I just went out there and said this is my level where I am today and I am working hard and here is the reason why I decided to offer coaching but it was very, very cheap. I think my first coaching line paid me like something ridiculous, it was like $300 or something for a lifetime coaching package. I ended up working so hard that it took everything I learned and I immediately taught it to the guy and as I was climbing up you know as my income was growing, he was just behind me. He was literally $1000 away from me at all times and together we went on to about 10K a month simply because whatever I was learning at the time I immediately taught it to him. [18:00] I think it had another effect like a side effect to that was it stuck with me better.

Like when I learned something I went ahead and as a mission I said okay now I have to teach it to Jason, the guy’s name is Jason. It allowed me to become a better student. How do you feel about that Ross?

Ross: I feel like when you do share information with other people it forces you to think about that information even more closely and to get that information more sorted out in your own head. It actually helps to be teaching as it were so even though you’re not coming at it but you’re doing some second hand teaching, right. Because the actual teacher would be the person who’s actually getting the results at the high level but those people are quite open with their downline and stuff like that about what they are doing in the company because they want their downline to be successful because they make more money. So they have the incentive to share to quite a degree of accuracy what they are doing because then their downline can to similar things so that they can be successful and they can live their life on the beach. So look around and see what people are doing and then share that information that you find with as many people as you can in terms of like after they get into your business you share the information with them and by sharing it, you become a better practitioner of that information too because you are forced to find whatever flaws that are in it, you’re kind of forced to simplify it, you’re forced to you know understand it better yourself and I think that’s a good process.

I see it in its best ways where network marketing and stuff and being part of a company is genuinely a way to help other people and create a win win situation when it’s done right where you know you’re passing along information to people who wouldn’t know it. Like a regular off the street wouldn’t know how to use email marketing to build any type of business at all and so if you can just give them three or four pointers in terms of how to do it then they’re all of a sudden armed with this skill that they can use for the rest of their lives. It’s a very outside endeavor for each like win win.

Igor: Nice. Alright, well Ross, so far you’ve been just amazing like you have actually delivered more value than some of my other guests that are like ten times more famous than you are which again goes to show you that true knowledge, true expertise and the people who will influence your success is not always about you know who is like a super duper celebrity or not, not to imply that you’re not a celebrity, my friend, you are.

Ross: Oh, I was hoping I was a celebrity, really very much so. I’m working on it because I have actually have been very much in the background of stuff for a long time working behind the scenes as it were, you know.

Igor: Oh yeah, for sure. Ray Higdon is big and you wrote for Ray Higdon. [21:00] You’ve done work with Kevin Rogers like you’ve done a lot of work like Vin Montello, big copywriting firm. You used to write for them like for awhile, right?

Ross: A lot of the stuff that I’ve done, Igor, is so behind the scenes. I was always very comfortable behind the scenes for a long time but now I’m having a coming out party, as it were. The stuff that I’ve done, I’ve done a lot offline stuff and online stuff. Just to give three examples from the last six months just actually give some proof because we are talking about proof today, right? A company in the pet niche I’ve been working with since 2012 in the last six months I figured out how to triple their conversions, that was fun. Last month, I got word that a video script that I did created 100 applications into a high ticket program in a week.

Igor: Sweet.

Ross: I know. Then yesterday I found out that a company that I’m working with, is an offline company actually locally, they just increased their revenue four fold over this time last year in their first quarter so I’ve got a very, very close 100% success rate in terms of you know, client work but that’s just based off learning to work with people one on one and caring about them.

Igor: Oh yeah, for sure. I got to learn how much you care. There is an old saying I think they don’t care how much you know until they know how much you care and you project that absolutely you know when it comes to working with clients one on one.

Ross: I really like the people I work with and I tend to attract people who are hard workers and take responsibility and people who really want to get great products and great services then help them to create better reach out there and make more money and take care of their family better and good usual things. Usually I am able to work with people who I can increase sales or raise their prices that kind of thing so that they can have a little bit bigger business but at the same time you know more time too and also have better lead generation and all that good stuff that goes along with you know actual real businesses that exist based off of lead flow and consistency in sales [inaudible0:23:23.8] and that kind of thing. I’m actually coming out with a month to month consulting offer myself so that is on the way and a whole bunch of stuff that I do too in terms of video production and stuff like that but I don’t want to go on about me too much, Igor, because this is about you. I appreciate you having me on.

Igor: [laughter] First of all, it’s a pleasure and second I mean you’ve killed it, seriously. But since you’re refusing to plug yourself, I’m going to do it with your permission. So guys, Ross is just fucking brilliant [24:00] when it comes to selling marketing, getting people to trust you, building credibility in the marketplace, building up your guru, your guru persona in the marketplace. Even if you’re nobody right now, you’re pretty much one sales letter away from becoming an internet superstar, okay?

So if you want to find out more about how you can work with Ross, you can go to rossbowring.com. Go to that website, submit an application, I believe it’s free to submit and have a conversation with Ross because this dude can change your life. I can only speak from personal experience. So Ross, thank you so much for taking the time to sit down on this sunny snowy day in Pennsylvania. Well guys, I hope you enjoyed. Goodbye and I’ll talk to you next time.

Thanks for tuning into The List Building Lifestyle show, if you’re digging what you’re hearing your next step is to go to iTunes and in the search bar type List Building Lifestyle. You’ll see Igor’s face smiling at you. Go ahead and click on that, subscribe to the show and if you’re feeling really generous and you want to help us out, give us your ratings and review to help other smart people like you find the show. Thanks for tuning in and we will see you on the next one.

This is the ThePodcastFactory.com.

Who Is Igor Kheifets

Igor Kheifets is the 3rd highest-earning super-affiliate in the internet marketing niche.

Igor’s 2-step system has helped him consistently rank as the highest-earning and the highest-converting (measured in commissions earned per click) for industry’s leading vendors including but not limited to Matt Bacak, John Crestani and Anthony Morrison.

Igor boiled down success in affiliate marketing to a set of predictable easy steps anyone can take to generate commissions.


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