It’s hard to stand out in a crowded marketplace.
The worst thing you can do is copy what everyone else is doing.
Because this way you don’t stand out.
And that’s a huge turn off for prospects.
This is true for your emails, your bridge videos, your Facebook posts, your Twitter twits, your Instagram etc.
If everyone paints lime green, lime green doesn’t stand out.
In this week’s episode of the List Building Lifestyle I share the story of how I quickly stood out in a crowded marketplace using my emails.
This was the first time I made 9 sales on an affiliate contest for a Clickbank product with a tiny list of just 1734 prospects.
I’ve had better EPCs than marketers with actual customer lists.
Would you like to know how I pulled it off? Hit “play” now!
This program is brought to you by thepodcastfactory.com.
Jonathan: Welcome back to another episode of List-Building Lifestyle with the solo ads master, Igor Kheifets. What’s up, brother?
Igor: Doing well, Jonathan, doing well! And in today’s episode I want to really, you know, assist the folks who are starting out on their really small budget, like I’m talking 50 bucks in your pocket right now and you want to launch your list-building lifestyle.
And what we’re going to talk about in this episode is just going to be, I believe it should be life-changing for many people listening. I honestly do, because it was life-changing for me.
Jonathan: Uh-oh, I’m afraid that you opened it up like that, because we’re supposed to be lowering expectations.
Igor: Oh, sure, you’re right…
Jonathan: You’d be lucky to get one tip out of this, but if you do, great.
Igor: Okay, so I’ll give you just one tip, but it’s going to be life-changing.
Igor: Anyway, so I want to take you back in time to the days when I was starting out and I tried a bunch of different things and I realized that, hey, blogging doesn’t work for me and pretty much just SEO didn’t work and forum marketing didn’t work and a lot of things didn’t work and now I finally kind of got the guts to try list-building.
And so list-building showed some results, like I was getting people to sign up on my list and I figured out how to build a high-converting squeeze page and like everything was going well, but my list wasn’t growing fast because I didn’t have much money. And also whoever was getting on the list were never buying anything from me.
And so anytime I would ask questions on the Warrior Forum or just research different products and programs about list-building, the advice would always be the same, you know, get people on your list using a bribe and when they’re on your list send them good value and content and they’ll reward you with money.
Now when you’re getting started with list-building that makes a lot of sense, especially because your self-esteem is so low that you can’t even imagine yourself asking for someone’s email address without giving them something in return.
Igor: And usually that something should be so freaking valuable as if you’re trying to please the, like really, really, really thank them for descending from heaven and giving you their damn fake email address. So it was like, I don’t know, I went for a little while for like three or four months and I did this thing, right. I followed very rule in the book, gave a great lead magnet, sent out…like, sent out an email a couple of times a week, just great content often linking to my blog, which at the time I wasn’t like even using [03.00] because I got discouraged about it, and nobody was buying anything and I don’t know why, Jonathan. I honestly don’t know why, because at the time I did not know Ben. I don’t think ben ever taught email marketing at the time I was just following guys like Ryan Deiss and Frank Kern, etc.
Igor: And they all said the same thing – just send your list value, value, value, value and an occasional pitch.
Igor: But I don’t know why I just decided to say, yeah, I just said, ‘Look, screw it. I’m just going to pitch every day!’ And the reason I said it is because like, first of all I couldn’t afford to pay for the list any more, like the list had to make me some money for me to be able to afford the twenty something dollar monthly autoresponder fee.
Igor: Because I was broke, man, I was super broke. So I started pitching every day and every day I would mail out to a ClickBank offer. Now somehow I didn’t know what I did right or whatever, but I started making a little bit of money, like I’m talking about closing $3 commission sales.
Jonathan: Oh boy…
Igor: Like selling a $7 trial, getting 3.50 commission and then an occasional upsell for 27 bucks where I would get paid like $12. So, you know, a long story short, when in a span of three days I made enough money to cover my autoresponder fee. I was making sales every day, but I started getting some traction.
And so I thought ‘Look, so I did something that everybody told me not to do and I started pitching every day. What if I take it one step further? What if I start pitching twice a day?’
And so what I started doing is I started mailing my full list with a pitch andthen mailing the ‘unopens’, you know the people who didn’t open the first message…
Igor: …The same day in the evening. So the email would go out like 7 a.m. in the morning EST and another one 7 p.m. at night, and so the next email would be pitching the exact same product only from a different angle, because it went to unopens, so I had to rewrite the subject line and then rewrite the email body, you know, so obviously changing the angle.
And so I remember clearly doing this, like writing an unopens’ email after work. At the time I was doing some housekeeping in a local hotel and I remember the email too, Jonathan. I was promoting Dan Brock’s ‘Deadbeat Affiliate.’ Did you ever see that product?
Jonathan: I didn’t. That might be before my time.
Igor: Oh, well, perhaps, perhaps not, but I know it was like a ClickBank bestseller and I got on a launch list and I was like in the team of affiliates. Like I wasn’t hoping to hit a lead report or anything, but I wanted to make some money and the sales letter seemed pretty cool. I can picture in my mind right now where it’s like you see an image of Dan Brock, which is like Mark Zuckerberg type looking person, wearing like a dirty long-sleeved shirt, red socks and like there’s a to-do list on the screen and it reads
Write the daily blog post
Take a shower ’ (and that’s unchecked)
– something like that.
Anyway, so I was promoting this product and at the time I [06.00] also suffered from a really bad case of back issues, like I literally couldn’t sit for longer than 30 minutes because my back would hurt like hell. And so I wrote the email about becoming a deadbeat affiliate, so you don’t have to spend a lot of time sitting down behind your computer and so you don’t develop back problems like I did.
Igor: And I did it completely intuitively wit broken English, very poor vocabulary, but that thing worked and I made nine sales!
Igor: Out of a list I think of like four thousand prospects, not even buyers but prospects. Man, Jonathan, I can’t even begin describing the feeling, the rush, you know!
Igor: Of making nine sales! I mean, there weren’t like huge sales either, like $47 products, so very sale would pay me like 19 bucks. So it wasn’t like a whole bunch of money, but that was like way more than I made, you know, doing housekeeping for five days a week.
Jonathan: That was something.
Igor: It was a game-changer for me, and this is where I finally got sold on the idea that you could email your list every day and even more than once a day with pitches and make it work, and that’s what I did. And so I realized that I could make sales only to the extent that my emails were hitting on the right appeal and it was never about value or content. I think that was the last time I’ve ever considered sending out content to my list, honestly.
Igor: And so if you still believe that you should be sending out content and you should be sending out like good value and you should be bribing people to join your list, well, you should not. And we’ve talked about this, I know, but we will be talking about this even more I think down the road where it’s just…a bunch of baloney I think.
You should just pitch your list. Do it in an infotained way and if you don’t know how to do that, just keep listening to this podcast and go check out Doberman Dan and Ben Settle as well, and your list will reward you with sales. In fact, I think that the worst thing you can do is to not pitch your list, because then you just breed a whole generation, you know, of freebie-seekers who are going to get angry with you when you pitch something.
Jonathan: Yeah, that’s the scary part too. I don’t know why so many people…I guess, it’s because the gurus were pushing it, but giving that advice of not pitching your list and just sending out value and content. The thing about value and content is they don’t use it. I mean, if they’re not paying for it, they’re not going to use it! And they don’t give a crap about you, and then when you make an offer, they get pissed at you.
Igor: Exactly, and I think I heard Doberman Dan share how he went from having a paid business model to putting all this paid stuff on the blog and whenever – and he got all the people thanking him – but, you know, eventually whenever he tried to pitch something they would actually get angry with him, hit the ‘Spam’ button, complain, really just get mad at him for daring to ask for some money in exchange for his work. Outrageous person, this, Doberman Dan.
Jonathan: Scary how that works. The other thing, which I think is good to talk about a little bit here is where people [09.00] tell you to give away like your best piece of content from your paid product as an opt-in bribe. And there’s a problem with that that when you give away your best piece of content, if anyone actually buys, then the rest of your content just looks like crap and they want a refund.
Igor: Yeah, pretty much. I mean, if you’re already giving them your best stuff for free, another thing that happens is psychologically, you know, unconsciously they know that you’re give the paid stuff away at some point, and you never want to do that. And, in fact, you never want to compromise your marketing ever and I learned this from Ben actually. You know, I remember when I signed up on his newsletter I asked him if he could sell me or send me the all the back issues of the newsletter in a digital format, because I didn’t want to wait for them to arrive in the mail. And do you know what he did? He said, ‘Look, I have a very strict no digital policy’ or something like that he called it.
Igor: And he says ‘It’s really not a matter of money. It’s just I’m not give you the digital version, yet if you want the back issues, get the physical one.’ And then I said, ‘Okay, so why don’t you give me all the back issues at a 50% off. I’ll buy all of them,’ you know, in bold, ‘if at 50% off.’ He said, ‘No. if you want to buy back issues, buy at full price just like everybody else does.’
And so you would think that I would get pissed at Ben for being such a dick and not allow me to buy his back issues at a discount, but I didn’t. Somehow I respected this guy even more and, you know, I didn’t buy the back issues, but I picked up some back issues over a time and also I’m subscribing to the newsletter for like two years now.
So I don’t know, I mean, you should not compromise for your clients you should demand to get paid what you’re worth and you should not seek their approval.
Jonathan: It’s that attitude that I like and I know you have it and Ben has it. And it’s hard when you’re first starting out to have this. It’s sort of a swagger, but you’re just lucky to hear from me. You’re lucky that I’m here. You’re lucky that I let you be near me. It’s hard to have that swagger when you’re starting out.
But the fact is that if you’re hustling, if you’re doing work, if you’re gaining knowledge and experience and you’re sharing it, then they are lucky to be around you.
Igor: Yeah, absolutely, and this vibe of desperation that you get from people who try to serve you and get your opinion on things and reward you with things, you know, that does not do well for the list owner. In fact, this neediness is the worst thing you can project on your list.
That’s why, you know, Ben is successful doing email marketing, because he just doesn’t give a shit, does he? I mean, you can leave the list, you can unsubscribe, you can post a bad review about his Kindle books or his novel – like it does not matter. He’s just going to be solid like a rock, like a fortress and he’s not looking for that approval.
Now the best advice, of course, that I can give you in order to achieve that is to stop [12.00] looking at every communication with your list as one where you’re seeking a sale, because when you’re seeking a sale you’re always desperate because you’re dependent upon the outcome.
But if you’re stepping into the conversation just with the goal of getting a clear yes or no, so not so much seeking result, but – and getting attention as a result – but actually just getting an answer whether positive or negative, which means like either they’ll read my email or they won’t or maybe they’ll stay on the list or they won’t or they will buy my product or they won’t.
So if you’re stepping into the whole conversation with that, you’re no longer attached to the good or the bad outcome, like if they unsubscribe, that’s a no and you achieved your purpose. You know, you got someone who doesn’t want to hear from you off your list and, you know, all the power to ya! At the same time you’ve probably got ten other people to stick on your list thanks to the exact same tactic you used and by, you know, thanks to saying whatever it is that ran the other guy off.
Jonathan: Yeah, right. So, Igor, let me ask you something and I’m not sure if I heard this or not earlier when we spoke about his show, but you’ve got up to sending two emails per day to your list. Did you ever send more or was that everything? Because I think that one strategy is…I’m actually going to start using it, by the way, with the second email to the people who didn’t open. But have you ever sent more? Do you ever send more?
Igor: Oh, yeah, I had times when I sent out like six times a day. It would really depend on whether I had something important to say. Like if I, I remember doing a launch to my list and it required, on the weekend it required me to send six reminders to the list – six! That’s a lot! I mean, I don’t care who you are, that’s a lot! And nevertheless you’d be surprised, that day I got three unsubscribes total.
Igor: So you can email your list as many times as you want to email your list as long as you do two things. First you’d be consistent about it so they know what to expect. So if you decided to email your list three times a day, then make sure you email them three times a day, every day, no excuses. And also the other thing you want to do is every time you email them, have something interesting to say. As long as that happens, they will keep reading your email, trust me.
Jonathan: Yeah, and I haven’t told him about this yet, but you know that the Ben Settle sort of like email or weekend email launch type of system, we’ve combined that with using podcast and multiple parts and we send as many as eighteen emails in about three or four days. And I’m naming that now ‘The Ben Settle
Blitzkrieg’, and you would be surprised to know that usually on the last day when we send six to eight emails is when we make the most sales.
Igor: Yeah, absolutely. I’m actually not surprised, because of the scarcity of it and because you’re like in their face! Like you can’t ignore somebody who’d send you six emails a day. Now the trick, of course, is to not seem [15.00] desperate doing it.
Igor: Now that’s the trick.
Jonathan: Own it.
Igor: Yeah, that’s the trick, and I think the only way for you guys to pick up on how to do it is to actually get on our list, get on Jonathan’s list, get on Ben’s list, get on my list and, you know, see how we email, see the posture, see the persona, see the approach we’re taking, and then it’ll make sense to you, because again when you’re emailing six times a day the trap you can fall in is you’re going to seem desperate to the list, which you never want to seem.
Jonathan: Yeah, definitely you want to watch you’re positioning there and have that swagger. Own it! Own it! You’re lucky I’m emailing you!
Igor: Now, Jonathan, imagine how difficult it is for somebody to accept that if they haven’t made a dime online yet, like…
Jonathan: Oh, good grief.
Igor: It was kind of like asking for and asking like a geek in high school to just see himself as the most popular boy in school and approach the most popular girl in school.
Igor: Like that almost never happens. So, I guess, like to tweak this strategy, I’d say that, you know, have them just accept the idea that you are doing them a great service whether they understand it or not. Just like when you’re talking to a child, if you have kids, right, so you’re trying to do something for your kid, oftentimes the kid will not appreciate it.
For example, my daughter, she was sick last week really bad. She just started going to kindergarten, so the first year is really difficult, you know, her immune system is functioning overtime. And so to heal her we need to give her some medicine, but guess what? She doesn’t want to take it. So we have to force it, but, you know, she can’t thank us for it right now, but obviously when she’s healthy she will or maybe she won’t, but like she will understand why we’d done it.
So you want to treat your list like that. You want to treat your list like your child, if you will, where you’re this harsh certain parent and you’re just doing the right thing whether or not the child likes it.
Jonathan: I’m doing this for your own good, kid.
Igor: Yeah, that’s right. That’s right.
Jonathan: I like it. I like it. So awesome, man. That was a good chat about your dirty little email secret. I’m glad we got to rap about that and I’m glad that you guy got to hear that and hopefully it’s encouraged you to make some changes in the way you’re email marketing.
So that’s a wrap for Igor Kheifets, List-Building Lifestyle, episode #12. We will be back in your earbuds next week.
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