We got two brains.
The emotional brain.
And the rational brain.
And here’s the thing.
When emotion is at play, it’s no use to appeal to logic.
That’s why in spite of being given a sound rational case to buy, prospects often refuse to act, in spite of being presented with a no brainer offer.
Discover how to convert prospects who don’t listen to reason.
This program is brought to you by the ThePodcastFactory.com.
Hi, my name is Igor Kheifets and this is the List Building Lifestyle, the only podcast
which delivers cutting edge conversion strategies from the online trenches straight to
your earbuds. Download the transcript of today’s episode and all future episodes at
listbuilidnglifestylesshow.com. I also invite you to grab a free copy of “The Wealthy
List Builder’s Survival Guide” at listbuildinglifestyleshow.com/survival and now
once again it’s time to claim your List Building Lifestyle.
Jonathan: You are listening to List Building Lifestyle. If you’re here,
you’re in the right place to build a better business, live happier, and hang
out with the Prince of List Building, Mr. Igor Kheifets. What is up?
Igor: Hey Jonathan, my friend. Man, this has been a tremendous day so far, very
Jonathan: Good, good, good. So what do you have in store for us today, Igor?
Igor: I want to appeal to the List Building. I want to wake them up because all
I see lately is people trying to convince other people to buy their product;
they are doing their business through direct rational arguments.
Jonathan: Yeah, how’s that working for them?
Igor: I don’t think it works very well because that’s like the last thing
you want to do when you convince someone to do anything. You know that if you
ever convince a family member or a friend like just giving them straight up
advice which you know works like how many times did you actually talk to a
friend in need who said I need help with this or that and you give a very
specific direct rational advice and all they do is they nod in agreement but
they never follow through like they do something else.
Jonathan: Furthermore how about talking to your wife and she is being all
emotional and you’re just trying to give her a rational answer to something.
[laughter] How does that work out for you?
Igor: This is an even better example probably, I just had such a conversation
today, and it’s no use. It’s no use when emotion is at play; it’s no use
to appeal to logic. So when it comes to convincing to join your business, when
it comes to influencing somebody into working with you, appealing to their
rational before you have established an emotional case, it’s useless, it’s
futile, it does not work. It took me awhile to get this. It took me a whole
while to get this. In fact, I spent the first couple of years in the industry
trying to change the industry. I was like giving the factual rational stuff
which I thought people needed rather than looking at all the sales letters and
sales presentations that worked and modeling after those which are all emotional
like they told stories, they appealed to fear, they appealed to the dream,
right, but I just went and I’m going to give you 25 pages worth of content for
$2 or I’m going to give you my best system which has been proven to work by
field testing, field tested by 12 other people and yada yada yada. None of my
factual stuff ever worked which was devastating because I put a lot of work into
and I was coming from a true place, from my core and I really wanted to help but
eventually I learned the hard way after years of failure that if you want to
help someone make a decision even if it’s a really good decision even if
it’s a decision that they are basically supposed to be making on their own if
they have a brain, you always have to appeal to their emotions and almost never
to the logical element at least not until you’ve established the emotional
case. So in my humble and accurate opinion, influence comes down to about 80%
emotion and 20% logic. So 80% of the convincing process always comes down to
whether you’ve made or created an airtight emotional case.
Jonathan: How do you get into that mindset because I’m a dude that likes
logical things but how do you get into the mindset because I think you’re
pretty good at it. How do you get into that mindset of the emotional thinking?
Igor: Oh that’s a great question. There is actually a very easy way to do it
if you go on Amazon and you research in your niche, let’s say you’re in
e-commerce. You look up several best sellers on how to do e-commerce which means
people who want to do e-commerce probably picked up a copy of those books.
Igor: You go ahead and instead of picking up the product what you do is go and
look at the reviews. I want you to look at the 5 star reviews, the 4 star
reviews, and the 2 star reviews and the one star reviews. Usually the one star
reviews will reveal to you what kind of emotional stuff is going on in the minds
and hearts of your target market because people will complain and will express
ideas which you didn’t even consider to be possible.
Jonathan: [laughter] From you logic standpoint.
Igor: From your logic, yeah.
Igor: So you will then learn to kind of acknowledge the fact that people think
and feel certain way and usually their feelings sort of – I don’t have the
word for it, when they feel this strong emotional response to marketing all the
logic goes out the window.
Jonathan: That’s a good tip. In fact, I’m going to start digging into some
of that too, looking for what people feel. I don’t think I know enough of what
people feel about in my market and going and reading those books, those best
sellers and seeing what people hate about them is a great idea.
Igor: Yeah, so one of the examples I can give you like everybody knows,
everybody realizes that there is no such thing as instant change, overnight
success. We all know that, right?
Jonathan: What? Oh my God.
Igor: However if you go on Amazon and you check out Tony Robbins, “Awaken the
Giant Within” for example which is a book about success and you go and read
the one star reviews, you’re going to find comments such as I was seeking
immediate, dramatic results from this book but I didn’t find them.
Jonathan: [laughter] Really?
Igor: Yeah and this is for real like here is a quote, “I’m waiting for the
‘wow’ moment but it never comes. The material is simplistic and very basic.
I want super advanced stuff.”
Igor: Now this is probably a guy who never or a gal who never succeeded in life
at anything and probably doesn’t make much money, probably is like a janitor
or works in McDonalds and looking for the ‘wow’ moment, they are looking for
the super advanced stuff but why would you look for the advanced stuff if
you’re a beginner and you haven’t succeed with the basic stuff yet? It
doesn’t make any sense, right?
Jonathan: Yeah, yeah. And now that you’re mentioning those things I hear them
all the time in every market I’ve been in is those people who are not
successful yet, they are looking for magic, and they never seem to find it. I
Igor: Not only that this is something I learned from Frank Kern years ago, he
said that the reason I advertise “advanced stuff” is because everyone wants
the advanced stuff. Nobody wants the simple, basic stuff because the basic
doesn’t have a high perceived value. However the vast majority of the
marketplace is basic, in other words their skill set is very basic, even below
basic. 99% of the marketplace in the money online space hasn’t made any money
so these guys are newbies but they all look for the advanced stuff which is why
a lot of times you’ll see smart marketers disguise the basic stuff as the
advanced stuff because otherwise it’s impossible to get their attention.
Jonathan: That’s interesting. How can we luster up the old stuff they need? So
that goes back to that principle of selling people what they want and giving
them what they need.
Igor: Yeah, it does. It does only just it puts it in a very specific example.
There is like a million things like that in our industry which you have to stay
aware of which most people don’t know. They think I just got to have a great
product and people will kind of realize on their own how awesome it is and they
are going to buy from me but it’s not the case. I think Tony Robbins has
amazing products. Yeah, there are so many people out there who complain about
this work but why would you? In my opinion if you have a brain, you’ll listen
to that guy. I read many of his books, I went through many of his seminars, and
I’ve listened. The program that changed my life in a big way was “Personal
Power II” and it came with it on tapes. So I did the MLP exercises. I worked
up the courage to start losing weight, start approaching girls, to kind of
follow my passion and decide that I wanted to rich etc. So I do believe Tony
Robbins has a tremendous influence in my life yet there is a ton of people out
there who consume the same material never done anything with it. They obviously
need to be communicated with in a different way than I was.
Jonathan: Yeah, that’s interesting. I mean are those the people that you want
though, that don’t take action? If you’re communicating on that emotional
level, is it attracting the wrong people or how does that work?
Igor: No, I don’t think there is actually like anyone who is like a bad person
or doesn’t want to take action. It’s just that they have blocks that prevent
them from taking action. So they probably have some fears or insecurities so
deeply ingrained inside that they simply won’t take action and that’s how
they express their frustration. They need to blame someone because people always
seek to put responsibility for their results or especially lack of results on
someone else. Just like the frustrated folks usually turn to God so they always
seek for that outside of self cause for success and failure. But I believe if
Tony were to have a one on one conversation with each and every one of these
people, there’s a good 9 out of 10 chance that they would walk out hugging and
Tony would convince them to change their life because he would pinpoint the very
specific fear or insecurity or desire or something in their emotional system
that would allow him to get in and help them overcome their hiccups.
Jonathan: So this is something you really good at the Amazon book tip I like,
any other tips you can give us to getting into that mindset and in particular
that emotional mindset that our market might be in?
Igor: Oh yeah, absolutely. So again it comes back to studying the material that
is already really successful. So think of all the best selling authors out there
in your niche so if you are in the productivity niche obviously and go ahead and
read “The 4 Hour Work Week” and then when you read it, you want to try and
analyze why Tim Ferriss spend the first chapter or the bulk of the first chapter
talking him traveling to Argentina, learning how to salsa dance and eating out
guacamole, I don't know, I remember him spending a long time painting a
really rosy picture. He was kind of bragging about how awesome his life is. So
the reason that he did was because that’s why people want to work the 4 hour
work week because they want to not work at all. They want to have fun and travel
and someone else do the work but they would claim all the money. That is why the
first chapter or the preface to the book that is why it was all about that. Now
it gives you an idea of course that even the people seek productivity which at
first glance might seem like they want to get more done in less time, right, at
the end of the day all they are looking for is to live the List Building
Jonathan: Yeah, you know what is interesting about what you just said there is
we were talking about the negative emotions and the fears but now you flipped
the script and you’re also talking about selling the dream.
Igor: True but think about it this way when you read how Tim Ferriss brags about
having this amazing life and making a ton of money in the process while you
slave away in a cubicle, does it make you feel good?
Jonathan: I guess it depends on who you are. For me it inspires me but for some
people it might make them feel shitty about themselves.
Igor: Circling back to Tony Robbins, there is only two reasons why people do
things either to avoid pain or gain pleasure so if you’re the gain pleasure
personality, you see the pleasure element, and you go for it.
Jonathan: Right but if you’re like me and you’re the avoid pain personality
when I first read that book, man I felt like shit.
Jonathan: I felt like a loser. So it first off sure it makes you believe that
someone out there lives this amazing life however at the same time you feel like
crap because you’re not that someone. So the way that I choose to respond to
that is to start becoming proactive about achieving that lifestyle but that is
just one example of what you look for. There are a million other examples.
Whatever the niche you’re in make sure and go and pick up at least three best
selling products whether courses, coaching programs, seminar DVDs or books in
that niche and study them really, really closely to understand why the author
talks about certain things, check out the reviews people post about the program
online like study all that material and really don’t read the words but kind
read between the lines. Like if they tell a story of going from sleeping in
their car to making $12 million a year, why did they start with sleeping in
their car? Why did they spend three paragraphs in that book showing how
inadequate and how big of a failure that person was before they succeeded? Now
you might say well it makes for a dramatic transformation, sure it might but the
real reason people do stuff like that is because it overcomes the objection that
says I can’t do it because I’m not
slept in his car for two months and dropped out of college and had a documented
IQ of 47 becomes a millionaire, you can’t say that you can become a
millionaire because you lack ‘X’, whatever that ‘X’ is: brains, talent,
finances, relationships, and free time and so on and so forth. Does that make
Jonathan: Absolutely, absolutely, right. It brings you in and bonds you with
them in one way or another.
Igor: Yeah, so there you go. By the way Jonathan, I want to be honest with you,
99% of the people who listen to this episode will not do what I just said.
Jonathan: [laughter] Surprise!
Igor: They are not going to do what I just said but the one percent that will,
okay if you’re listening to this and you decided you want to be that one
percent that will actually do what I just said, make no bones about it that a
year from now or two years from now, you’re going to be turning back on this
moment and you’re going to see this as the moment when you finally opened your
eyes. When things kind of shifted for you because you finally understood who
you’re dealing with because a lot of times I see great people, hard working
people, honest people try to succeed from home and they try to talk to prospects
and recruit them to their business but the problem is there is a huge
disconnect, no one can explain it right, not the person selling, not the person
buying they can’t explain it. They just decide it’s a disconnect and they
don’t do business but often times disconnect is because the primary
communicator which in this case is the person who is trying to recruit the
prospect is not on the same wavelength as the prospect. They are like on
different levels. So if you want to sign more people into your company, you have
to get down to that level. This is not to say that people who you are recruiting
are less intelligent than you are but in the evolution, in the progress that you
have to make going from a nobody to becoming a self-made millionaire you kind of
go up like your awareness goes up, your intelligence goes up, etc. So you have
to get down to where you were starting out in order to recruit the people that
are just coming in. I know it’s not the most simplistic explanation but does
that make sense?
Jonathan: There is a couple things there that I want to bring up and so you’re
the stick guy, I’m the carrot guy and so when you say get down what I’m
picturing in my mind is just you leaning over and giving somebody a hand to pull
them up to your level. So it’s not getting down in a negative way, it’s
helping people up. The other thing is and I just learned this concept. I was
interviewing Joe Schriefer from Agora Financial, $400 million a year company and
what you talked about in the book is something that he talked about in reading
sales letters. He said that he had trouble really understanding what good copy
was until he did this new thing he called ‘active reading’ which is what you
described in that book. ‘Active reading’ is reading a paragraph, reading two
paragraphs, or reading five pages and asking yourself, writing in the margins
why is he saying this, what is this about, what emotion is this triggering so
that ‘active reading’ made him more aware of what was working, what wasn’t
working and why it was working and I like that idea.
Igor: I’ve never heard the term ‘active reading’ but I like it. I just
realized that I’m doing it unconsciously now for the last several years and
I’m going to write this down because it’s the best way I’ve heard it
Jonathan: Yeah, when he told me that my mind was blown. [laughter]
Igor: The guy probably knows a thing or two about success.
Jonathan: You think? You think.
Igor: Being at the helm of the $400 million a year company.
Jonathan: Right and working with some of the best copywriters in the world and I
mean I got to share this interview with you actually I’m going to get you a
copy that after we’re off the air. Sorry List Builders this is insider
information only but
Igor what do you have coming up for us next time?
Igor: Oh Jonathan, you know I’ve been hard at work seeking out experts to
share the stage with and the guy who joined me on the next episode, he’s
amazing. What I thought was going to be another philosophy episode turned into
an actual actionable do this, don’t do that, say this, don’t say that sort
of episode. So he runs his own media agency. He is a specialist at building
sales funnels and creating automated webinar presentations and he works with
some of the biggest players in the network marketing space. So I’m not going
to reveal who he is but I’m telling you man, he’s one of the most
knowledgeable sales funnel guys I know and that I’ve had the pleasure of
interviewing so next episode if you’re struggling to build sales funnels that
convert for your business opportunity this one is for you.
Jonathan: Sounds interesting. I like the little cliffhanger tease there. Good
stuff. Alright that’s a wrap for another List Building Lifestyle. Thank you
for tuning in.
Thank you Igor for sharing your insight with us and we will be back with you
Thanks for listening to The List Building Lifestyle Show, make sure to subscribe on iTunes
or Google. Play to never miss an episode because who knows just one conversion tactic
we share on the show might double your list and double your business. Download the
transcript of today’s episode and all future episodes at listbuilderslifestyleshow.com and
don’t forget to claim your complimentary copy of “The Wealthy List Builder’s Survival
Guide” at listbuildinglifestyleshow.com/survival . This is Igor Kheifets until next time we talk, have a good one.
This is the ThePodcastFactory.com.